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Every time I play against irelia as an immobile mage

Zardo··14 votes·6,502 views

I am led to wonder why riot released this rework. The visuals and animations on the rework are great, don't get me wrong, it's just that her gameplay is extremely toxic to play against. She can 100-0 mages at level 3. She doesn't have to, she can just chunk them down to where they have to recall and then back off into her minion wave. If she gets caught out of position she can use her damage reduction to mitigate every attempt you could muster at bringing her down.

Look- i'm not going to say that she is unbeatable. This is obviously a lie, but it requires you, as an immobile mage player, to play the lane 100% flawlessly or you will die assuming the enemy irelia isn't complete garbage or she will murder you. Sure, you can dodge the stun. However, this goes back to blitzcrank/zoe syndrom- if she hits 1 stun you're dead. Also, post 6 she doesn't need her stun, but she can secure it anyways with the slow from her ulti.

She also suffers from yasuo syndrome. Even if she is put behind, she can still 100-0 any squishy with ease at any point in the game.

Let's contrast this to old irelia. Old irelia was mostly played top(she was admittedly picked mid occasionally), but she had clear strengths and weaknesses. She spiked extremely hard on sheen and triforce, as well as having a lesser spike on bork/titanic(dependin on the matchup/what irelia wanted to accomplish). She didn't brainlessly oneshot squishies unless she just hit her powerspike or was just obscenely fed(which wasn't easy to do).

I will admit, whenever she was meta, it was a little annoying. A point and click stun may not be the best idea on a bruiser. Her ult was a glorified tri force proc. What I want to know is why riot decided to throw a concept of a champion who spikes extremely hard on 1 item then falls off(meaning she had windows you could play around, or by golly another word is counterplay) into a monstrosity who is played mid and can 100-0 any mid laner at level 3 onward.

22 Comments

Nyarlathοtep7 votes

A lot of champs can 100-0 mages at level 3. Its not unique to irelia only.

This is obviously a lie, but it requires you, as an immobile mage player, to play the lane 100% flawlessly or you will die assuming the enemy irelia isn't complete garbage or she will murder you.

Sounds just like yasuo and zed match up.

Zardo1 votes

Zed can't really 100-0 mages until 6. He needs to get you in lethal and burn your pots with weq.

Nyarlathοtep

I did say a lot. Ofc not every champ can do it. But a good chunk of them can.

Automated Riven5 votes

Way to cherry pick a video where the orianna D5 player is being coached vs a Challenger irelia to show how op she is. The whole point of that video was to show someone learning how to play the game, against someone significantly better then they were.

Zardo1 votes

It's not cherry picking when the whole purpose of it was to show what the champion was capable of.

Edit: to clarify, cherry picking would me be saying that irelia always 100-0s people post level 3 and using this as an example. This is obviously not going to happen every game, but it can happen.

Another thing to note about the video is it is intended to show the counter to assassins like irelia, so it is a really good watch from the beginning.

Automated Riven4 votes

Yes but on the same token orianna is capable of denying irelia all of her cs and forcing her to go back early. Your cherry picking in order to complain about irelia when the irelia is significantly higher skilled in this particular 1v1. If you posted the clip of LS completely destroying the matchup then the irelia players can complain that orianna is overpowered because they cant farm. you allow any melee champion to get in on you at level 3 and the same result happens. I could do that with riven all day when they fuck up that bad.

Zardo1 votes

The difference is that irelia has the exclusive ability to do that(the exception maybe being yasuo as well).

No, you could not do that on riven. When riven dashes in, she has to commit her damage mitigation and her damage in order to get in range. She would not be able to kill ori, and would take much more poke due to not being able to dodge for free with q. There's also the fact that you're not a diamond player either.

Irelia versus orianna as max says needs to start defensively and play defensively. If you pick a bruiser mid, you should not be able to farm for free. You should have to play/ build defensively(early d shield) and wait for your item spikes.

In kr plat+, irelia has a 70% kill rate on orianna(http://na.op.gg/champion/irelia/statistics/mid). So it's happening regardless of skill differential.

Automated Riven1 votes

Like 5% of plat+ actually play the game properly. For example. In this clip that orianna player was a diamond 5 on the Korean ladder. And the two coaches (LS and Max) both agreed that orianna beat irelia. So picking your stats here doesn't work either. At the highest level irelia loses the matchup. She loses most ranged matchups. Because she gets harrassed out of lane. And as you meantioned irelia if played at high level does take d shield and TP and waits for jungler interference.

And yes I could do that with riven. I have, often. Because people don't know how to position in lane in silver. Same with zed Yas and renekton. You can easily get first blood on all of those champs if the opponent misplays. The issue here is that you can't nerf champions because other players are making mistakes. Nerf them because they are too strong. This here, as you have essentially admitted, is people not playing properly. Not irelia being too strong.

Zardo1 votes

It is irelia being able to do things she should not inherently be able to do. She is supposed to be an AA based bruiser, yet she is instead being played into squishies and one shotting them.

Let's take the gnar matchup as an example. Before, irelia won the matchup because she would q to a low minion, stun him, then aa him, then either commit if he was relatively low or disengage. Now, she just one shots him with q resets.

And no, she wins most range matchups. http://na.op.gg/champion/irelia/statistics/mid - Go to counters, and take a gander at the lane kill rates. Irelia messes up team comps as well as not scaling in teamfights, so her winrate suffers. She also doesn't offer utility to teams aside from one shotting carries. She went from being a splitpusher who couldn't really teamfight well into a one shotter who can't match many splitpushers.

Automated Riven1 votes

Your arguing plat+ statistics. Find me Challenger only and I will discuss it with you.

Untill then your showing a video where a Challenger orianna completely smashes the matchup and cherry picked one of the clips where A Challenger irelia played against a D5 orianna to prove your point.

And then your arguing low elo statistics to validate your point. When the video you posted established that orianna, if played properly, smashes the matchup. And we also established that D5 and below cannot handle the matchup. So that means that your plat+ statistics are at least 50-70% corrupted because that many people can't play the game properly.

Tldr. Get good at the game before you wine about balance.

Zardo1 votes

Lol, I'm done talking with you. I never said that irelia was broken. I said that her rework made her do things that she wasn't originally designed to do.

You call my example cherry picked when I never said this is what happens all the time or is what even happens under average circumstances. I literally showed an example of what she can do if played properly. I never said that she was an uncounterable laner. I didn't imply this is what consistently happens. I simply stated that this design is less healthy than her previous iteration, and instead of addressing that point, you hit me with ad hominems , strawmans, and red herrings.

On a side note, being told to get good by someone who has been silver for seasons on end with terrible stats on their main champion makes me roll over laughing.

Automated Riven1 votes

I told you to get good before you whine about balance. Not that I was good. And I don't whine about balance btw.

Apocalypsic1 votes

Riven main piping in here.

She can 100-0 pretty much every midlander at three if they misstep.

Zardo1 votes

I actually wouldn't doubt this. She may need to expend flash, but if she avoids the cc she may be able to. I'll run the numbers later.

Apocalypsic1 votes

A full fast q on top of w damage and ignite is enough for pretty much everyone at that level. That's like, such an ideal situation though it rarely happens except with cocky ad assassins trying to kill you early.

No one else would let you be close enough without blowing a q or two to gapclose.

Xeronic3 votes

Her gameplay has far more counterplay than before. You will never die if you keep dodging her predictable E´s.

Rock MD3 votes

{quoted}

I am led to wonder why riot released this rework. The visuals and animations on the rework are great, don't get me wrong, it's just that her gameplay is extremely toxic to play against. She can 100-0 mages at level 3. She doesn't have to, she can just chunk them down to where they have to recall and then back off into her minion wave. If she gets caught out of position she can use her damage reduction to mitigate every attempt you could muster at bringing her down.

Orianna played that horribly. He missed at least 2 Q's which would've easily killed her. He also waited until she used most of her burst to exhaust. Irelia had to burn all her summoners as well so it's not like it was an easy kill for her.

Look- i'm not going to say that she is unbeatable. This is obviously a lie, but it requires you, as an immobile mage player, to play the lane 100% flawlessly or you will die assuming the enemy irelia isn't complete garbage or she will murder you. Sure, you can dodge the stun. However, this goes back to blitzcrank/zoe syndrom- if she hits 1 stun you're dead. Also, post 6 she doesn't need her stun, but she can secure it anyways with the slow from her ulti.

Irelia played that 100% flawlessly, shouldn't her mechanics and decision-making be rewarded?

She also suffers from yasuo syndrome. Even if she is put behind, she can still 100-0 any squishy with ease at any point in the game.

So can every assassin? This isn't news and this doesn't even come close to skimming the issues with Yasuo

Let's contrast this to old irelia. Old irelia was mostly played top(she was admittedly picked mid occasionally), but she had clear strengths and weaknesses. She spiked extremely hard on sheen and triforce, as well as having a lesser spike on bork/titanic(dependin on the matchup/what irelia wanted to accomplish). She didn't brainlessly oneshot squishies unless she just hit her powerspike or was just obscenely fed(which wasn't easy to do).

Old Irelia oneshot squishies just as easily. Actually, easier since she never even had to "land" her stun/slow. She'd just chunk you for a 250-ish base nuke and watch you drop.

I will admit, whenever she was meta, it was a little annoying. A point and click stun may not be the best idea on a bruiser. Her ult was a glorified tri force proc. What I want to know is why riot decided to throw a concept of a champion who spikes extremely hard on 1 item then falls off(meaning she had windows you could play around, or by golly another word is counterplay) into a monstrosity who is played mid and can 100-0 any mid laner at level 3 onward.

Dodge the stun? Fight her before she charges up her passive? There was a ton of counterplay in that fight.

Automated Riven1 votes

ROFL. I was gonna post the exact video, except I was going to use the one where the Challenger was playing orianna against the Challenger irelia. Not the Challenger against the diamond 5 orianna.

Boatwhistle2 votes

a massive number of the player base thinks if a champion cant 1v5 played well then they are too weak. Riot doesn't go that far but they do make champions that lean towards this and can do so when ahead way better then most others ahead. So many players cant seem to accept the game plays out based on the contributions it team makes throughout the game. These players need to do way too much as early as possible. These sorts will KS carries and then steal their farm if their own wave is out. Each game is about them not 10 people. Later they will proceed to call their carries useless for being so behind them .. wonder why... and its everyone else's fault cause they don't follow them into a group of enemies cause they cant compute that their teammates would likely just explode not offering much in their current state.
These sorts pick champions best at securing last hits very well early and then snow balling which only makes the game easier for themselves later.

TitanAnteus1 votes

Mordekaiser absolutely murders irelia.

Besteal1 votes

Ah. Well, the counterplay is 90%, of all top laners in the game. That's why Irelia goes mid to beat on the immobile mages. Because that's the class she counters. That and adcs. She is supposed to beat them, and regardless, most mages have enough easy to hit hard cc to keep her off early.

Marothennan1 votes

Almost everyone has a hard time against her, not just mages

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