I'm getting super tired of hearing people complain about "mages" being broken

Zardo·6/17/2019, 9:05:07 PM·15 votes·5,590 views

Especially since EVERYONE IS SO LOOSE WITH WHAT A MAGE IS. I was watching a hashinshin stream a while back and he called leblanc and katarina mages when he was complaining about every game having at least 3 mages in it. This is interesting since nobody in their right mind would ever just call someone like zed or talon an AD caster to justify AD casters being broken. No, THEY'RE ASSASSINS. And no, he was not complaining about AP itemization, he was complaining specifically about mages.

Strangely enough, most mages have a moderate winrate with a relatively low pickrate. On this list is(u.gg plat+ worldwide)

Mid:

Annie: 51.05% 1.7% Cass: 50.61% 1.8% Ziggs: 50.64% 1.8% Viktor: 48.93% 2.1% Lissandra: 47.16% 2.2% Azir: 48.31% 2.5% Anivia: 51.30% 2.6% Syndra: 48.14% 2.8% Xerath: 50.48% 4.0% Neeko: 51.02% 4.1% Zoe(may be considered assassin depending on who you ask): 49.60% 4.3% Veigar: 50.56% 4.6% Twisted Fate: 49.91% 5.5% Orianna: 49.38% 5.9%

The mages with a high winrate and pickrate mid are(just winrate is not really a good metric since one tricks skew the data when the pickrate is low, and it is for quite a few inc asol):

Ahri(debatably a mage, generally considered an assassin) - 52.86% 10.9% Lux- 52.87% 7.5% Vladimir- 50.69% 6.9% Malzahar- 53.00% 6.2%

Sup:

Xerath: 49.13% 1.5% Fiddle: 50.08% 2.9% Vel: 49.38% 2.9% Zilean: 51.28% 3.6% Brand: 49.26% 3.6% Zyra: 50.43% 3.8%

The only mages with a high winrate and/or pickrate support are morgana, karma(debatably a mage), and lux

Let's just put all of the mages played top onto a list using pickrate and winrate:

Karma: 53.49% 2.5% Neeko: 52.12% 2.2% Kennen(maybe a mage?): 50.77% 3.8%

What's the point of all these statistics? To show that mages as a whole are not overperforming, it is just a few champions who are. As a whole magers are balanced. Any classwide nerf would absolutely ruin champions like lissandra or ziggs, who are already struggling right now.

Real talk though- Generally, people are going to complain about a class that their main loses to. So it makes sense that a lot of juggernaut and bruiser mains are complaining, since high cc is one of their biggest weaknesses. You'll see the same thing in other scenarios- ADCs complaining about assassins-, mages complaining about assassins, assassins complaining about tanks, enchanters, and bruisers, etc etc. All I ask is for people to stop making sweeping claims about entire classes by cherrypicking champions who are overperforming.

Edit: The reason this is mainly about mages is because mages are the current target of this.

26 Comments

The thigh guy6/17/2019, 9:47:39 PM8 votes

hashinshin is an idiot who think the only champions that should be playable are bruisers soooo

HP Crookshanks6/17/2019, 9:48:44 PM7 votes

Some of the mages might be strong right now but majority of them are weak. Anivia Annie AurelionSol Azir Cassiopeia Fiddlesticks Heimerdinger Lissandra Swain Syndra Taliyah Veigar Viktor Ziggs I almost never seen these champions getting played and some of them (Azir Lissandra Viktor Ziggs etc.) obviously need buffs.

Mages' damage is also halved by a single MR item while armor almost has no effect against AD champions.

2Charmnot2Charm6/17/2019, 9:51:10 PM6 votes

I just assume when someone complains about mages they just got destroyed by one of these 3 Ryze Vladimir Kennen especially if its a top laner.

Reprom6/19/2019, 11:23:49 AM2 votes

I cant say anything about mages in mid. I dont play there.

But this is proof that mages on bot are real problem. 50% is huge for class that was not ment to be played in that specific role. That meens ADcarry + APcarry bot is vaible meta! Not APsupport. APCarry! Brand Velkoz should be for them around 40%-45% on bot. You know who is at 40%-45% now instead? Alistar Braum . You know. Supports.

But thats all because item 3303 not keeping mid mages out, but leting them in instead. Since item 3098 already gives wards there is no point to spend 950g for 15 AP to getitem 3092 . What am I? Pffff... a Support?!

FOR JUSTICE6/17/2019, 9:37:13 PM2 votes

firstly you dont watch hash for balance. ever.

second you left out the first half of his argument there. he said "if a champion builds mage items, then you cant really call them a mage" (which to some degree, makes sense. you cant call a Fizz with item 3194 item 3065 item 3078 a backline assassin can you?). he brought that argument over to leblanc and evelynn, if they build mage items, then are they assassins?

third he complains about mages vs tanks and bruisers. especially tanks because they do in fact lose early and late game in a fight.

Mannny6/18/2019, 7:19:38 AM1 votes

Mages aren't too strong, MR items are just not versatile enough for the large class that mages are. Also, it's mostly outliers that make the class seem too strong (Vladimir Ryze )

LemurMonster6/18/2019, 10:24:44 AM1 votes

its there damn items that make op. Too much diminishing returns on cc plus the cooldown reductions on the items is absurd. there is no point to getting tenacity anymore.

Peel for my ADC6/19/2019, 12:06:51 PM1 votes

Still waiting on 5% pen reduction on item 3135

Ahri Baka6/17/2019, 9:42:46 PM1 votes

Even Vlad can't be really called mage I mean he is , but we can't bring him to AP arguments since he doesn't use mana

Lux has like 2.30 % pick rate in op.gg in mid lane so her winrate doesn't really matter if it's 52.50%

and Ahri's winrate is only high for 2 reasons Glacial Augments and her winrate against Ryze AkaliSylas is so damn high , 60% winrate against them , while they have really low winrate in general for such a popular match up , on the opposite it makes her winrate really high , if you look at her winrate against most of match ups it's from 48 to 52%

Malzahar well , his pick rate is not that high so it doesn't make him oppressive so that doesn't mean is broken ( personally I hate dealing with them )

Honestly Hashinshin started this whole Mages are op and we made it a meme , I don't understand how it turned serious for some people

boricCentaur16/17/2019, 9:53:25 PM1 votes

EVERY CLASS IS OP AND EVERY CLASS SUCKS THERE.

The only time where a class can be generalized is when there is a lot of balance and item changes like the assassin meta it was after the assassin items get reworked.

Woodakoodashooda6/17/2019, 11:11:40 PM1 votes

I'm sorry, but when did the hate train shift from "fuck Tahm top" to, "mages are broken"?

Also, I was going to point out that Lux is, in fact, currently OPAF status, but the stats you show already pointed that out for me.

ZapFreeMan6/18/2019, 6:12:34 AM1 votes

When 2 mages go against eachother one of them has to lose...obviously the class as a whole will be around 50%