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To all the solo queue complainers, What is so bad about playing with 4man premades?

Teemodanegro··7 votes·2,396 views

If you have a 4man premade on your team, the enemy will have one aswell. the odds are exactly the same outcome, both premades have the same chances that they're using comm's, how is solo queue still wanted.

Dynamic queue has made my overall experience with league so much fucking better, you have to understand and think back to a time where you would get put into a queue and at the off chance you get someone who is having a bad day and doesn't get the role he wants he just locks in teemo and sits in dragon pit.

Those types of games were the WORST, and it WAS because of the old solo Q system.

All that you see being communicated to you from the 4man queue is relative, but they're probably yelling at each other in comm's about the same thing blaming each other.

Problem is you don't see it because you're not part of the call. But in a 5man solo queue game the same thing is the case except there are people ranting in chat which leads to aggression within teams which leads to people being chat banned / suspended / banned...

Anyways, the thing is people tend to think something is wrong because they're insecure (lets be honest, league and every online video game has its weeaboos that venture through the forums and rant about things that they know not of).

TL:DR Its not how it works, its how you perceive it to be working, and in your eyes (or the forums eyes) isn't necessarily true.

TL:DR If i have to wait an extra 3-5 minutes in queue for an overall better experience, ill take it! I Have played League for 6.5 years, and since the release of Dynamic queue I haven't experienced a single troll from champ select.

Not fucking one

32 Comments

Illiad4 votes

Its not so much playing with the group, but playing against them. if you considered like, what if tsm just played dynamic queue and found a group made up of 5 solo players, that is a huge disadvantage to the single players, both in communication and compatibility. It was managable with duo queue's since they didnt hold majority influence, but with 4 mans they have alot more control over the game than a team who is chatting through the chat and dont have a clear understanding of eachothers capabilities

LaserDeathBlade4 votes

When you queue up you expect to have ~20% influence on the game

When you're queued with a 4 man you're reduced to like 5% impact

Emerald Fang2 votes

More like 0%.

You can't FF, you will be skyped, the team won't take it seriously.

Best shot: Pick vayne and hope you can 1v5.

Caítlyn3 votes

no trolls

or

League of Legends

Pick one.

Venrae3 votes

{quoted}

If you have a 4man premade on your team, the enemy will have one aswell. the odds are exactly the same outcome, both premades have the same chances that they're using comm's, how is solo queue still wanted.

Dynamic queue has made my overall experience with league so much fucking better, you have to understand and think back to a time where you would get put into a queue and at the off chance you get someone who is having a bad day and doesn't get the role he wants he just locks in teemo and sits in dragon pit.

Those types of games were the WORST, and it WAS because of the old solo Q system.

First... it's not a matter of the teams being balanced or not, it's a matter of the solo player's impact on the game and input in the communication. For a lot of Solo players, games are decided by which team has the better premade. (Personal statement incoming) Don't get me wrong, I'm fine with getting carried every now and then, but when it happens a lot, I lose enjoyment.

Finally, to the rest of your post... what fixed that isn't Dynamic Queue, it was New Champ Select. Yes, they came out at the same time, but New Champ Select can, and was planned to, be applied to Solo Queue. While Dynamic Queue allows for people, who queue with a premade, to have less of a chance to get trolls, that chance doesn't change for Solo Players.

EDIT: I'm trying to be as reasonable as I can... so I ask that everyone else do the same.

The Deckowner3 votes

What is so bad about playing with 4man premades?

Literally everything

Athenes Lulu3 votes

I personally don't have a problem with them in any of my games, and if I'm part of the 4-man, I treat the last person as if he is a part of the premade with full respect.

Though the idea of 4-man premades in general... just doesn't sound right. There's always a group of assholes ganging up on one person, and I don't expect that to disappear. And that I'm glad I have yet to be stuck in a case where I'm just flat-out scapegoated and bullied by a 4 man premade.

But the problem, though, is when matchmaking fucks up and one team has 4 man, and the other doesn't, shit is just flat-out unfair. If I'm dealing with them, then I should be with a 4-man as well, simple as that.

Teemodanegro1 votes

well thats the point im making, why would a 4man premade go out of their way to bully their 5th member... they know the other team has the exact same situation so why would it make sense for them to cut their resources short??

Athenes Lulu1 votes

It's like asking why some people in the world are trolls in a perfectly peaceful world.

One person trolling and bullying another person is bad enough, though the only reason it's not so bad is because there are 3 possible people to back him up. Now imagine a group of them ganging up on ONE person, with no one else really defending him... yikes. Sometimes from the enemy perspective, we cannot tell if the lone person is a drama queen or an actual victim.

I'm not too convinced that DynamicQ is "filled" with those kind of cases, but the idea of a 4 man + 1 solo comp alone... not the best idea.

Teemodanegro1 votes

Okay, i get it. But that seems to be the "odd case" out of the ballpark.

grug3 votes

the logic is this.

resources would be put into helping their friends which would not necessarily net them an advantage when instead they could help you and gain a lot of advantages.

people would go where their friends want but not where they are needed.

Teemodanegro1 votes

Thats a blatant use of confirmation bias...

Nanuk Pihoqahiak1 votes

That's how it works? I've had my fair share of four man premades. I've asked to join their calls to tighten communication. It's always a no. The moment anything goes wrong in your lane or you get camped by anyone on the opposing premade, everythins is your fault even if your own premade did poorly as well.

Teemodanegro1 votes

Thats all that you see being communicated to you, but they're probably yelling at each other in comm's about the same thing blaming each other.

Problem is you don't see it because you're not part of the call. But in a 5man solo queue game the same thing is the case except there are people ranting in chat which leads to aggression within teams which leads to people being chat banned / suspended / banned...

Anyways, the thing is people tend to think something is wrong because they're insecure (lets be honest, league and every online video game has its weeaboos that venture through the forums and rant about things that they know not of).

TL:DR Its not how it works, its how you perceive it to be working, and in your eyes (or the forums eyes) isn't necessarily true.

Live2LetDie2 votes

They also ignore the fact that the probability of playing with a 4 man is extremely low. Just another elo hell excuse

Teemodanegro1 votes

yeah, didn't riot state that the chances are like 2% of your games will be with 4man premades if you queue alone?

Live2LetDie1 votes

A 4 going against a 4 is a 98% chance so the probability of a random team going against a 4 is very low. With this in mind then 98% of the time these games only need 2 solo players. The probability of a person being 1 of the 2 multiple times in a row is so low, Say there are 100k players in Q ( like gold or silver), the chance you are picked to be in a 4 man is smaller than 2%

redniwediS2 votes

It feels like they are complaining about being forced to play as a team with other people who are playing as a team. In Solo Queue both teams would mainly be unorganized and barely held together until you get into the very high ranks.

When Dynamic Queue came out and started punishing people who cannot organize their play and fit in with a team and rewarding those who can many people saw their ranks drop below where they felt they should be. I think this is where most of the hate comes from. People don't want to adapt to a system that goes against what they have played for years. They just want to play the same way they did before, regardless of whether or not the new system is better.

Teemodanegro1 votes

{quoted}

It feels like they are complaining about being forced to play as a team with other people who are playing as a team. In Solo Queue both teams would mainly be unorganized and barely held together until you get into the very high ranks.

When Dynamic Queue came out and started punishing people who cannot organize their play and fit in with a team and rewarding those who can many people saw their ranks drop below where they felt they should be. I think this is where most of the hate comes from. People don't want to adapt to a system that goes against what they have played for years. They just want to play the same way they did before, regardless of whether or not the new system is better.

Both yield the same outcome, with different paths. One is team based and the other is scatter brain based.

How come solo queue is held in such high regards?

21028037DEL12 votes

{quoted}

Both yield the same outcome, with different paths. One is team based and the other is scatter brain based.

How come solo queue is held in such high regards?

In Solo Queue, you feel as though you have a greater impact on the game. After all, you are 5 solo players against 5 solo players. Both teams may be organized or disorganized and the outcome is generally fair. Each player feels as though their actions directly impact the other four on their team.

In Dynamic Queue, you have a 4-man vs a 4-man (for example). Those two solo players that fill out the 5-man team? They don't feel like they have impact on the game. The 4-man may coordinate ganks, but not inform the solo player. If a gank goes awry, they may flame and blame the solo queue player (and if they try to defend themselves, they now have to deal with 4 players backing each other up in chat). You'll say, "Just mute them," but now they don't want to communicate with you. If, as the solo player, you are in a solo lane (mid or top), you may realize that the Jungler and Mid aren't ganking for you, or no one TPs to help you, or if they die, they blame you for not TPing in to save them.

In addition, at High ELO (Diamond and above, but especially in Master/Challenger), a higher percentage of games have pre-mades in them. It is very frustrating to feel as though you have no impact. Even worse: what if your pre-made is the worse pre-made and they are losing lanes, dying/feeding? What if one of them rage quits? You feel as though you have even less impact on the game.

Also, players who are looking to climb in Dynamic Queue can queue with higher ranked players. A Master tier player on a Platinum smurf may queue with two Gold-ranked friends and carry them up to Diamond. Now guess what happens? If those carried-players try to play solo games, they may have the rank of a Diamond player, but the skills of a Gold-level player, resulting in an instant loss for their lane (and, possibly, the entire game). Is this fair? No. This does not occur in a solo queue system.

The Whamboozler2 votes

Ok, I'll try to keep this civil since the OP did.... mostly.

If you get a premade on your team, you are likely against one as well. What this means for the solo player is that you are out of communication with your own team, AND your enemies are far more organized and coordinated than you as well. At least, some of them. So you're the odd-man out on your own team, not privy to the voice chat of your own teammates who will ping things for you if you're lucky... AND your enemy has an edge in coordination against you as well. It's not insurmountable, but it's a disadvantage. And if you're solo there is NO up side. You just play the game with that against you.

It would be like having a swim meet and giving one swimmer 3 pound weights to strap to his arms and legs. It seems like a minor disadvantage, but it matters a LOT. The solo player is always the odd-man out who pretty much needs to accept that the game is almost entirely out of his hands. If his premade is better, they'll win the game for him. If his enemy's premade is better he'll have a hard time turning the tide against a group of four people who are far better coordinated than him. The solo player wasn't part of the premade's likely planned-out team comp. He won't know their playstyles. And he won't be able to dissuade them from what they want to do or try to herd them into following his lead very well if they're doing poorly. Those guys are gonna listen to their friends, not the random jax player who is trying to carry the game. Even if he is 3/0.

Dynamic queue marginalizes the solo players. It puts them on the short bus. It makes them second class citizens in the game. It tells them "playing with a premade is the correct way to play the game" and punishes them for not doing so. It also makes boosting very easy and muddles the ranked system a lot. Is that guy really plat, or did he get boosted? Your ranking means a lot less when any dude with friends can hit the same rank by having them carry him. Add in the loooooong queue times for higher elo games and yeah... it's not a very good idea. It should have been scrapped. The gains aren't worth the losses.

In short... Dynamic queue accomplishes the following.

  1. It lets people play ranked with more of their friends. (Positive)
  2. It puts people NOT playing ranked with their friends at a disadvantage any time they end up in a game with a premade. (Negative)
  3. It makes the queue for games... ESPECIALLY high elo games take longer. (Negative)
  4. It reduces the value of a high elo or rank, since it's far easier to get boosted or carried to a higher rank. (Negative)

It is a bad system because it splits the community into premade players and solo players... and then pushes one group aside as less important. And it provides a powerful advantage to actually winning the game to those premades, while making it harder for solos. For a competitive game, that's a TERRIBLE thing. The game is supposed to be fair. As level a playing field as they can get. OR, if the game is just a source of entertainment it should be fun. Playing Dynamic Queue isn't much fun for those solo players, and it badly undercuts the game as a competitive "sport" when the scales are tilted in favor of the guy who plays with three of his friends all the time. It's pushing people away from playing ranked entirely, and that FURTHER undercuts the game as a competitive thing. I can't imagine the horrors of being a high elo player who hopes to reach Masters right now.

Also, it was un-needed. Ranked teams was always a thing. Ranked Duo was a thing. So what the mode did it improve the game for people who had two or three friends that all wanted to play ranked... but who couldn't seem to muster that fifth friend to fill out a team. That's an oddly-specific group to gear the game towards at the expense of the people who play it alone... don't you think?

Teemodanegro1 votes

You put alot of effort into this post,

let me just say I dont agree with any of it.

The Whamboozler1 votes

Well given that you didn't mention why, I fail to see what the point of this post was? If you wanted to talk about what you feel is wrong with my opinions, do so. If you feel dynamic queue is great and adds a lot of the game, I'll read your post explaining why. But you didn't post anything other than "I disagree". Fair enough opinion, I guess... but not one that really can lead to any sort of discussion unless you go into detail. If you have a counter-point or a differing opinion, I need to HEAR it to understand why mine might be misguided.

Without giving your opinions or anything to talk about tho, your post was pretty pointless.

Teemodanegro1 votes

Thats all that you see being communicated to you, but they're probably yelling at each other in comm's about the same thing blaming each other.

Problem is you don't see it because you're not part of the call. But in a 5man solo queue game the same thing is the case except there are people ranting in chat which leads to aggression within teams which leads to people being chat banned / suspended / banned...

Anyways, the thing is people tend to think something is wrong because they're insecure (lets be honest, league and every online video game has its weeaboos that venture through the forums and rant about things that they know not of).

TL:DR Its not how it works, its how you perceive it to be working, and in your eyes (or the forums eyes) isn't necessarily true.

Quoted from another reply i answered to.

The Whamboozler1 votes

Er, k. Was that supposed to be a reply to the points I brought up? Because it doesn't really seem it. It seems like a quote you meant to post in regards to another argument entirely.

If this IS meant to be a reply to me, then... um... you think that dynamic queue is ok because... premades can argue too? Nevermind that they're probably WAY less likely to... or the fact that NONE of the points I made in my post were about players arguing causing loses... so what? Even if you're 100% correct, the guys on voice chat will argue faster without having to type. Even if the situation where you're claiming things are even, the premade team has a slight edge, since they can argue without freezing in lane and typing out "OMG, screw you noob!".

But that was NOT what I brought up as a bad thing with dynamic queue. What I brought up was the many, man ways that premades being a part of the game put the solo players on each team at a large disadvantage and ruin the experience of the game for them... and how it makes rank matter less because it's no longer a sign of individual skill but of who has the better premade team. I didn't say Dynamic queue is bad because premades are jerks and mistreat solo players (even thought this DOES also happen)... I said it was bad because it reduces the fairness of the game... which is a very bad thing if you're claiming to be a competitive game. The solo player has a diminished chance to impact his own games because he's playing with a premade and he's likely playing against one. More of his games are out of his hands. THAT is why it is unfair. Not because of whatever the heck your quote was about.

Either you posted that in the wrong thread... you didn't read my post... or you didn't UNDERSTAND my post.

KnKitsune1 votes

{quoted}

If you have a 4man premade on your team, the enemy will have one aswell. the odds are exactly the same outcome, both premades have the same chances that they're using comm's, how is solo queue still wanted.

Dynamic queue has made my overall experience with league so much fucking better, you have to understand and think back to a time where you would get put into a queue and at the off chance you get someone who is having a bad day and doesn't get the role he wants he just locks in teemo and sits in dragon pit.

Those types of games were the WORST, and it WAS because of the old solo Q system.

TL:DR If i have to wait an extra 3-5 minutes in queue for an overall better experience, ill take it! I Have played League for 6.5 years, and since the release of Dynamic queue I haven't experienced a single troll from champ select.

Not fucking one

You lost your credibility when you were talking about CHAMPION SELECT.

Teemodanegro1 votes

what? you make no cents

KnKitsune1 votes

{quoted}

what? you make no cents

"Dynamic queue has made my overall experience with league so much fucking better, you have to understand and think back to a time where you would get put into a queue and at the off chance you get someone who is having a bad day and doesn't get the role he wants he just locks in teemo and sits in dragon pit."

You're complaining about Blind Pick, not Solo Queue.

Teemodanegro1 votes

this fucking kid is new.

KnKitsune1 votes

{quoted}

this fucking kid is new.

Such a compelling argument you've made there. You should run for president of Riot Games.

The Queen Viper1 votes

{quoted}

What is so bad about playing with 4man premades?

Because it creates imbalanced games and skews matcmaking the higher you go.

And more importantly, it destroys ranked integrity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RugYBvvKs3Q

Fovere1 votes

OP doesn't seem to understand what DQ actually is, or the new champ select to replace teambuilder.

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