What if Dragons location swapped every spawn until baron spawned?

Teemodanegro·Jan 27, 2017·63 votes·3,389 views

This way you put more emphasis on solo laners

Or to avoid lane swapping you could have them spawn in either pit randomly. could but top, could be bot... who knows?

80 Comments

ScissorsNstuffJan 27, 201715 votes

{quoted}

This way you put more emphasis on solo laners

the point of having a duolane is to defend dragon. This wont put emphasis on sololaners, it will just move the duolane.

TeemodanegroJan 27, 20172 votes

Maybe in higher metas... Can you imagine bronze - plat 2 doing that?

ScissorsNstuffJan 27, 201712 votes

at first it wont but the second it happens in LCS they will screw themselves trying to imitate

TeemodanegroJan 27, 20172 votes

[deleted]

SoryInAdvanceJan 28, 201717 votes

Literally every elo is playing adcs...

Walmart PornJan 28, 20171 votes

Not brone :v well at least not garenteed ... I played with a few friends and flex and the enemy team had a Xerath brand bot lane, kat mid riven jungle and teemo top lol.

SoryInAdvanceJan 28, 20171 votes

key word here: flex. My friends and i play crap like rengar support and jinx jungle in flex. No one cares at all about flex queue.

edit: We're in bronze 4 and 5 for a reason and we only do this in 5 man queues, no one is getting hurt by our shenanigans but us.

Walmart PornJan 28, 20171 votes

Yeah exactally. Thats why i love it. No pressure to preform and you can just do what ever lol. I took jungle draven and morganna and won, My morganna jungle is 4/0 somehow just cuz i keep getting teams that dont punish it before it can get rolling. It's just more fun than solo

Meep ManJan 28, 20175 votes

Actually if it is as simple as "Ok we killed Dragon, swap lanes" then yeah.

A DoorknobJan 28, 20174 votes

No. Duo laners would simply go mid. I'm down for that.

NineTailedMysticJan 28, 20171 votes

Mid Laners go mid for roaming potential and fastest EXP gain tho

A DoorknobJan 28, 20175 votes

You are correct. But if Riot decided to do what this threads said, which they won't because it's to valid of an idea and riot functions off stupid ideas, this would fix a lot of problems with the game. For 1 support usually just sits lifelessly with ADC making it fuckn boring to play support. Make dragons appear take turns appearing top and bottom, you force duo lane in to mid lane. Everything Mid lane does, a Duo laner could do better. It would grant access to the possibility for support to have a bigger influence on the game (which everyone has been begging for), ADCs wouldn't be 2 lvls behind and could keep up in lvls and items and would be a bit less dependent of teams. Mages can still solo lane in bot or top lane without a problem, they would just have to be more cautious. Assassins would have a harder time to snowball for fear of ganks possibily being done by a jg or a support. I see more positives than negatives.

NineTailedMysticJan 28, 20171 votes

ADCs keeping up in levels would be a downside. Removes part of the downside of being in a duo lane, and makes it harder to shut them down early. Mid laners being put Bot or Top reduces their roaming potential which nerfs Assassins and mids that like to roam. On the other hand, it would be harder to stop a snowballing Assassin because it would be easier for an Assassin to kill their laner due to more distance to their tower and start the snowball, and it would be harder to stop them due to less gank pathing.

A DoorknobJan 28, 20172 votes

{quoted}

ADCs keeping up in levels would be a downside. Removes part of the downside of being in a duo lane, and makes it harder to shut them down early. Mid laners being put Bot or Top reduces their roaming potential which nerfs Assassins and mids that like to roam. On the other hand, it would be harder to stop a snowballing Assassin because it would be easier for an Assassin to kill their laner due to more distance to their tower and start the snowball, and it would be harder to stop them due to less gank pathing.

ADC keeping up in levels isn't a downside. They scale better with items anyways, it just means they don't get rofl-stomped as quickly which is good. It also means some adcs would need some adjustments if they were to follow up on this idea. Again, Riot will not.

Mids don't have to roam. It's not a rule in the book. It's just preferred and it leaves a lane empty. Duo lane leaves no lane empty and allows support to patrol lanes, which would help JG tremendously and offers more interesting plays for supp and gives them more influence on the game.

Asn snowball too hard right now. This would force asn to actually 1 on 1 effectively and if they chose to roam it could cost them a tower unlike what it does now. They roam freely with no risk.

NineTailedMysticJan 28, 20171 votes

ADCs keeping up in levels gives them more base stats, putting them mid would give them closer proximity to tower, and thus safety, and there would be no downside to the Support roaming and not leaving an empty lane. When a mid laner roams, they lose CS and EXP and get rather behind if the gank doesn't happen or succeed.

Mids don't have to roam, but it is the best position to do so due to the location and ease of access to the enemy jungle, top, and bot.

Mages don't want to 1v1 Assassins. And it would be less punishing for an Assassin to roam because it would take longer for the other laner to push to their tower, thus denying them less EXP and CS.

watch the bushJan 28, 20171 votes

Why are you guys trying to over complicate things with stupid ideas? Holy shit.

NineTailedMysticJan 28, 20172 votes

Why do people have discussion?

A DoorknobJan 28, 20172 votes

{quoted}

ADCs keeping up in levels gives them more base stats, putting them mid would give them closer proximity to tower, and thus safety, and there would be no downside to the Support roaming and not leaving an empty lane. When a mid laner roams, they lose CS and EXP and get rather behind if the gank doesn't happen or succeed.

Mids don't have to roam, but it is the best position to do so due to the location and ease of access to the enemy jungle, top, and bot.

Mages don't want to 1v1 Assassins. And it would be less punishing for an Assassin to roam because it would take longer for the other laner to push to their tower, thus denying them less EXP and CS.

They do not have to 1 v 1 an assasin. They wouldn't be forced to go bot they would simply forced to solo. They could be against a Darius for all you know. An asn wouldn't always be picked every game as it would become too high risk due to their feast/famine nature and it would as well give an APC the opportunity to lane against something other than a Yasuo or Zed. APC do lose exp and/or gold from roaming but in most cases it isn't by much and that's only if the roam is was highly unseccesful. If the roam is succestful, the bonus is even higher than if he wouldn't roam; it means a free Dragon in many cases. As for the asn, the exp loss and/or gold lost in most cases is barely an issue for them. They don't get fed off of their laner, they'll simply roam and try to snowball that way. Leaving lane just isn't punishing enough. As well most ppl who roam from mid do it in a tactful manner to avoid loss of exp and gold.

TBH I only really like this idea a lot as it gives support more influence over the game. Every role should have a decent amount of influence and as it stands now, they do not have as much as they could with this idea. Top laner would gain a bit more influence while APC and ASN simply lose a bit of influence but not enough to consider this a bad idea.

Rito StaffJan 28, 20171 votes

Mages would go top or bot, more easily ganked - the death of mages

A DoorknobJan 28, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Don Noat Amu,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mZzEey0W,comment-id=000100010002,timestamp=2017-01-28T12:48:57.234+0000)

Mages would go top or bot, more easily ganked - the death of mages

Sure if you're bad...I've done Anivia top without playing feeding frenzy. It's no different than any other lane. Ward lane and play cautiously.

woodvsmurphJan 28, 20171 votes

False... because it rotates spawns between top and bot. Either the adc/sup rotate lanes every 6 ish minutes, or the top and mid play a bigger role on drag fights. And yeah they could just rotate with each spawn, but then the other team decides... we stay bot and finish off first brick tower kill and rotate mid or pressure tier 2 bot while enemy grabs first drag. So it actually introduces new counter-strategies and perhaps a deeper level of play than we see now.

ScissorsNstuffJan 28, 20171 votes

Or it could just force a greater burden on duolaners forcing people to duo mid and only pick champs that can survive this and cause the jungler's entire game life to revolve around the duomid aka the adc which means whoever goes to the other lanes is going to be fucking miserable if the enemy mid snowballs at all, not to mention that the presence and current location will further dominate people's priorities and any investments made into its protection could be completely moot since it may change locations.

Imagine having to ward a dragon that wont be there long enough to be worth trying to kill with pressure coming from the enemy team but its just going to absorb so much attention because the damn midlane duo needs that thing gone to relieve pressure on them.

This would be a horrible game experience

woodvsmurphJan 28, 20171 votes

it is possible people would duo mid with a mage bot or top and a "top" in top or bot, but not everyone would do this. It introduces new possibilities with teams exploring what is best... like when we had the 20 iterations of 2v1's to open the game with tower kills. Do we have jungler make it a 3v1? Does jungler make it 2v2 or 2v3 and try to stall enemy push? Do you go for tier 2 afterwards? etc. Teams could decide, do we rotate our duo between top and bot to defend drag? Do we have them mid vs an enemy mid with strong waveclear and let the enemy have a duo bot/top who gets first brick gold because our mid doesn't have safe 1v2 waveclear like their mid does? Do we commit to drag and lose first tower? Do we sacrifice 1v1 and 2v2 potential in lane to get better drag fighting global teamfight comp? Do we pick strong enough split push comp that we get 2 or 3 towers while enemy gets drag... and then use that lead to deny them the next drag even though they should get it based on the team comps? No... it would hardly be horrible or an unheard of change as compared to anything else league has done over the seasons... from lane swaps, to first brick gold and tower resistances being added to discourage lane swaps to everything else. It would just be one more experimentation and as I pointed out elsewhere, it would actually probably alleviate some of the kill bot, snowball, win game mentality and play that we have now. And adc's that understand how to play and not just ff minions in lane would shine even more than they get the chance to now, so every bot duo should be excited about the idea, and every toplaner who likes to duel and not just play a big dumb 0 kill pressure tank should be considering the possibilities for better or worse. More ganks to get drag control via top lane lead either means duelist toplaner snowballs and can carry, or is camped and hopefully holds their own while their jungler has free ganks mid and bot to get those lanes ahead. Jungler can feel good about ganking a lane other than just bot, which should make them happy too. Toplaners (potentially) and mid (more traffic around their lane) are the only potential losers if every lane knows how to play decently... and they are potential winners too -- as I already pointed out with toplaners; mids also could see more pick opportunities as people rotate to drag topside - squishy enemies facechecking bushes in a hurry to get to drag = free kills. So yeah, everyone potentially stands to gain OR lose off this, it would mix up strategies, remove the 4 man bot camp to win every game strategy as seemingly the ONLY viable option, and make things more interesting.

Very Hard EngageJan 28, 20171 votes

the point of sending duo bot is to keep your frail weak early game ADC alive longer until he can survive to the mid game, otherwise you dont get an ADC.

some get away with it in the mid lane like varus kog and corki, but thats because they have the shortest lane to retreat in. they are still predominately dead in a lot of ganks.

you just so happen to do it bot because of dragon control and removing 2 people means when your team converges its a highly favorable 5v3 resulting in an uncontested objective to follow.

RocketRelmJan 28, 20171 votes

the point of having a duolane is to defend dragon. This wont put emphasis on sololaners, it will just move the duolane.

the point of sending duo bot is to keep your frail weak early game ADC alive longer until he can survive to the mid game, otherwise you dont get an ADC.

I'm pretty sure the real purpose of sending the duo lane bot is to grab the easier First Blood Turret.

Trias000Jan 28, 20171 votes

{quoted} I'm pretty sure the real purpose of sending the duo lane bot is to grab the easier First Blood Turret.

No, because duo lane existed way before tower first blood was implemented.

RocketRelmJan 28, 20171 votes

It was a joke. I was gonna include the [zombie-brand-clap] but I felt it'd take too much space.

ScissorsNstuffJan 28, 20171 votes

{quoted}

.

I'm pretty sure the real purpose of sending the duo lane bot is to grab the easier First Blood Turret.

if that were true it wouldn't have been the case even before the tower changes

Rito StaffJan 28, 20171 votes

If the dragon spawn is random between top and bottom that would be interesting

Tails9016Jan 28, 20171 votes

defend it? I hope you realize that, given the chance, it's an easy solo for some junglers when they hit level 6 or 7. Of course this is blind, where a good takes it in under a minute before anyone can react.

ScissorsNstuffJan 28, 20171 votes

{quoted}

defend it? I hope you realize that, given the chance, it's an easy solo for some junglers when they hit level 6 or 7. Of course this is blind, where a good takes it in under a minute before anyone can react.

"under a minute" is not fast. You can easily react in time if you are actually doing your job as bot laners. Just because most botlaners suck doesn't mean the game should be balanced around people's terrible decision making

OleandervineJan 27, 201710 votes

This may work. It makes both pits relevant, especially since the only one who kills the Rift Herald is Baron Nashor.

Pierce The VealJan 27, 20173 votes

{quoted}

This may work. It makes both pits relevant, especially since the only one who kills the Rift Herald is Baron Nashor.

Which really sucks cause the herald buff is amazing. I would get it every game but I'm not strong enough to solo it and nobody ever wants to help me get it.

NiceTryViJan 28, 20172 votes

It is not worth getting for the team. Sure, you want it, because it makes your laning easier. But the jungler is far better off getting the mid and botlane ahead than getting the rift herald. The opportunity cost for the herald buff is too high to accept in almost every game.

Pierce The VealJan 28, 20171 votes

{quoted}

It is not worth getting for the team. Sure, you want it, because it makes your laning easier. But the jungler is far better off getting the mid and botlane ahead than getting the rift herald. The opportunity cost for the herald buff is too high to accept in almost every game.

If late game was meaningful then it wouldn't be.

5% reduced damage, and up to 270 damage on next basic attack every now and then is freaking amazing. For 20 minutes nonetheless? If you get it right before baron spawns you're strong till minute 40.

Supreme Senpai69Jan 28, 20172 votes

But you only get to use it while alone. You group usually after 20 minutes

Pierce The VealJan 28, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Revan Senpai,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mZzEey0W,comment-id=00000001000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-28T07:57:46.074+0000)

But you only get to use it while alone. You group usually after 20 minutes

The 5% damage reduction is while alone. The bonus 270 damage isn't.

Do note that could be 270 damage on an assassin or a bruiser that's jumping on the enemy adc. If you can easily take rift herald you definitely should.

Deity ExcaliburJan 28, 20172 votes

{quoted}

The 5% damage reduction is while alone. The bonus 270 damage isn't.

Do note that could be 270 damage on an assassin or a bruiser that's jumping on the enemy adc. If you can easily take rift herald you definitely should.

Actually, it will only charge if you are alone. Everything that the buff gives can only be used whilst alone.

Pierce The VealJan 28, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Actually, it will only charge if you are alone. Everything that the buff gives can only be used whilst alone.

Ah! I see.

Now we know what to change if we want rift herald to be taken more often!

NastyMcOutplayJan 28, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Which really sucks cause the herald buff is amazing. I would get it every game but I'm not strong enough to solo it and nobody ever wants to help me get it.

yorick can solo ez pz once he hits lvl 6 and has triforce or spellblade

Pierce The VealJan 29, 20171 votes

{quoted}

yorick can solo ez pz once he hits lvl 6 and has triforce or spellblade

Oh damn that's amazing lol.

woodvsmurphJan 28, 20174 votes

drop rift herald and replace with every other drag. removes an awkward part of game rarely used and used effectively even less (rift herald) and replaces it with drag in new location (some of the time); reducing 4 man camp the bot to win strategies and allowing top and mid to have an impact on the map other than camping bot.

SoryInAdvanceJan 28, 20171 votes

and then never being able to defend dragon when it's top side because its just the top laner and maybe the mid instead of a support with cc and a high damage output carry...

woodvsmurphJan 28, 20171 votes

because toplaners cannot do damage or fight over anything?... lol. that literally makes 0 sense for 2 reasons

every adc whines tanks and bruisers (toplaners) are too strong and do too much damage, but now they cannot defend a dragon 2v2? Please, you embarrass yourself
some toplaners pick for stronger early game or split push and can naturally snowball hard, but do not get the jungle attention they deserve since everything seemingly revolves around making one enemy bot lane useless and winning off that no matter how strong the enemy top or mid is. This means that it is even more plausible that teams can contest and snowball off dragons without adc and support help. It also means for once that mid/top/jungle might ward top half of map properly. Toplaners can bring both solid burst or solid dps AND good cc all in one package -- they are a bot lane duo onto their own depending on what champ was picked. And they have the durability to engage 1v2 vs many enemies long enough to stall for their jungler to come from nearby and contest an enemy trying to sneak dragon.

SoryInAdvanceJan 29, 20171 votes

an adc says that because if a darius can hit an e, the adc is guaranteed to die..but a darius can only fight a jungler and a top laner and a mid laner so much, especially if the mid just died. bot side, if the mid gets killed, an adc and support can run down and defend it reasonably well to an extent 2v3 until the jg can get there, the top would have to 1v3 in the same circumstance..."embarrass myself" ... no i just think about things beyond the linear generic stuff.

woodvsmurphJan 29, 20171 votes

except for that you have a jungler who would also be topside... making it 2v3. and maybe you killed the enemy toplaner... making it 2v2. Wow. amazing. and maybe you even have a deathstar with you lol. now you are just suggesting stupid scenarios. and if you are 1v3, you have a brain and concede drag while your jungler groups bot with the adc and support to grab a tower. if the enemy bot duo are alive, your toplaner tp's bot and 4v2 grabs 1st tower and a double kill. Wow. So hard right... i mean who would ever think of that. Oh wait, I just said earlier people would have to choose among scenarios like this. Doesn't seem very linear to me -- less linear than the current 2v3 defend drag that you describe which exists right now. So maybe you start thinking "about things beyond the linear generic stuff" and stop embarrassing yourself further. Because you are just repeatedly saying the same poorly thought out arguments without realizing all your arguments for why it wouldn't work in 1 scenario or why it works well in a scenario work exactly the same way if drag is on the other side of the map. In absolutely no way would having drag fluctuate between top and bot every spawn would it make the game more linear. 100% it introduces more options for what teams choose to prioritize.[zombie-brand-mindblown] This is a picture of my mind trying to comprehend how you can honestly claim to comprehend complex strategies "beyond the linear" and not comprehend what I just explained. I honestly do not think I can try to explain any further and make it any simpler for you to understand how wrong your argument is and how opening your mind to truly think about this suggested change in a complex way supports everything I explained -- as your arguments themselves support what I say if you simply sub "bot" and "top" and give some honest thought to it.

RebonackJan 28, 20173 votes

Spawn two dragons at the same time!

TeemodanegroJan 28, 20172 votes

First one to die wins!

ElikainJan 28, 20171 votes

What you're suggesting is gameplay changes by having Dragon spawn location changing on an RNG basis. How are people OK with this but they weren't OK with inconsequential Elemental Dragon buff cycler that isn't impacting gameplay on this level at all?

Now, let me explain why this won't work. Dragon spawning even once in the Baron pit (before Baron spawns) won't have solo laners contesting it. Look at how popular Herald is in that regard. It provides a buff that benefits one player that could be that solo laner's edge in combat and no one's getting it nearly enough as they should be. Dragon spawning at the top lane would just require for a bot lane to move entirely to contest the objective. Then the teamfights aren't going to be localized to the bottom of the map, they would be also happening at top and why are those migrations even needed?

Top laner can easily TP bot, they don't have to physically walk there and back. Support and a Marksman would have to make this trip two times, without sometimes even getting something of worth in return. This pretty much feels forced to me. Changing potential teamfight venues isn't something that accomplishes something specific in mind. For a champion to leave their designated lane on their own accord would mean that whatever is happening somewhere, has more worth than what's happening on their own lane.

I don't think that this change would even move bot laners out of their lanes, they would just collectively not give a damn and forgo Dragon buffs entirely and leave this to the junglers who can solo it. Potentially, a top laner might come and help but that's about it. Some teams might even think that getting that top Drake is too much of a hassle so they'd let it despawn when the Baron takes its place, not even having a single Dragon contested for full 20 minutes. That absence of an objective would force 20 minute farming playstyle in some way, across the board.

TeemodanegroJan 28, 20171 votes

Heres why i think it will work, it will shift up the META lanes.

There wouldn't be lane identities anymore, people could say "look I want to play malphite mid as tank because i'll have the potential to help out both dragon spawns and without the use of TP, i could run exhaust. And top / bot would be carry lanes that have either A.) high mobility / global pressure via ults / mechanics.

I Could be completely wrong, but what i DONT see is this being particularly negative.