Lower YG armor pen to 10 and/or make Maw have the same arpen passive as DB.

JavelinJoe··6 votes·709 views

If you lower it to 10 from 20, the the 2 items only give 20 total, not 30. Or make the passives the same but just different values, still adding up to 20 max. Before you go gutting the champions, please consider it is actually the items which break actually balanced champions.

EX: Jhin is balanced. His high damage is at a cost of static attack speed, a 4 shot reload system, and low mobility if he has not hit a crit. He is meant to scale crit/attack speed/damage. But because arpen is so easily acquired currently, he can forgo the intended build for arpen and deal greater damage for the majority of the early-mid game where he normally would be just coming online. I can get 19 flat arpen from runes alone. That on top of the 2 item 30 makes most champions defenseless for the majority of the game. If I add Maw, that is another 10 for a grand total of 59 arpen at 3 items, which btw are all useful and appropriate on an ADC. Add in Mortal reminder for the arpen passive and healing reduction and tanks are never an issue.

15 Comments

TehNACHO2 votes

Should probably go on nerfing Youmuu's Attack Speed before its Armor Pen.

JavelinJoe1 votes

Maybe but I feel the arpen is the bigger issue overall and II dont want to turn it into an item as popular as item 3091 is by overly gutting it.

TehNACHO2 votes

Not exactly? Armor Pen is strongest against squishy targets, but unlike other offensive stats in the game, it actually causes your damage to fall off dramatically harder when fighting targets who stack armor like Tanks and some Bruisers. Attack Speed breaks this in that its an Anti-Tank stat, and makes it that much easier to Black Cleaver to synergize with Youmuu's Ghostblade which is really what's breaking the build path for Marksman atm. It's not going to be gutted like Wit's End would be in that having that dramatically high Armor Pen would still make it a core item for Assassins. If you remove Attack Speed, all it does is solidify it as a core Assassin item and an option for other AD Champions to take against squishy targets. If you remove the Armor Pen, all that does is turn the item into a funky statstick that kinda sorta anyone can pick up for kinda sorta any situation that really would never be used much unless it's artificially powerful.

JavelinJoe1 votes

That was why I said only to 10 not fully remove it. But wth it I can get 49 aren after just that item and arpen runes. That more or less negates most early game armor items like item 1031 item 1029 item 3157 item 3082 item 2053 item 3047 item 3742 item 3069item 3068 .

Some of those are even complete items. One offensive item fully negating so many early game armor options (if you have arpen runes/masteries) is a bit too much imo. If it was at 10 arpen then all the completed items (save tabi) would still have some armor gain after the arpen (more than 1 armor since you can get only 19 arpen from runes, not 20 for some reason).

TehNACHO1 votes

That more or less negates most early game armor items

No. That is backwards.

Most early armor items negates Flat Armor Pen; it's not the other way around. Furthermore, under your example, you are getting 3 Armor Pen items to get to that amount. Getting 3 items and devoting a rune page only to effectively get negated by almost any two Armor items, ignoring armor from runes, it seems like such a tremendous waste to invest in Flat Armor Pen when the opponent could so easily outbuy you.

JavelinJoe1 votes

1 rune page plus YG is 39 flat arpen for me. So adding DB or Maw (or just another item 3134) on top of that which is common on Jhin, and a few other assassins and ADCs, gives me 49 arpen quite early on.

ZephyrDrake2 votes

they won't nerf the armor pen of the item since that's pretty much the main draw of it in item 3142

IS3E531E3F9643912 votes

just make yomu and duskblade melee only and problem solved

Dessem1 votes

But I need the swords to make my gun shoot harder.

DunkinNoobs1 votes

Literally no one would ever buy Ghostblade if it had only 10 armor pen. You can't just remove that many stats from an item.

JavelinJoe1 votes

Wtf are you talking about? How is reducing 20 arpen to 10 arpen removing that many stats?

DunkinNoobs1 votes

10 armor pen is currently valued at 400 gold in stats. You can't just remove that many stats from an item with no compensation; no one will buy it otherwise. Unless you want everyone that rushes Ghostblade to start rushing item 3147 instead, but I don't think you do.

Starfish H1 votes

I disagree as Youmuu's is more of a snowball item as once you get it you have to be on ball with it and use it to your advantage or else it's useless after everyone buys an armor item or two. And honestly people going an armor pen build is easily countered by just buying armor early. And before you argue "Buh my ADC build doesn't ever include armor" it's probably your fault if the enemy adc has enough gold and is ahead enough to spend on Youmuu's and use it effectively rather then getting an I.E.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

The attack speed is useful for taking turrets, but it could probably just be replaced by +30 armor pen against turrets during the active only.

The Armor pen should stay the same.

Of course Jhin is about to get nerfed anyway. Probably won't be an issue after that.

Jaygo411 votes

As someone who's played WAY too much Jhin and has rank 7 i honestly think the ghostblade build sucks... pretty sure the CLG build analyst or something also did the thing on Jhin and his items, something like the Autere of death? i forget what it's called

Based on a number of tests he concluded that essence reaver is far and away the best item jhin can get.

On the topic of ghostblade, i'd probably limit the amount of flat armor pen that's available to people. I see too many people walk around with like 60 flat armor pen it's like wtf you oneshot everyone

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