Boards›Gameplay

Sooo, just checked and the least modified champions since season 1 (and 2) are ....

Kyunsei··40 votes·4,559 views

Here is a top 4 of the most unmodified champion since end of season 1 (and 2). Functionality, bug fixes, Qol, Twi.TreeL, Dominion and General systemic changes are not calculated.

First places: Wukong tied with Karthus. Wukong only got a double nerf to his Q in season 4 , Q losing 20% armor shred at level 1 and Ultimate losing 10% AD ratio. Karthus got a E nerf in season 3, losing 5% AP ratio on E. He then received a W nerf in season 5, losing 20 / 25 / 30 / 35 / 40% slow after 1 second of initial slow duration.

Second place : Pantheon. He got his first nerf in season 4, losing some attack speed and attack speed delay. In season 5, he get back most of his previous attack speed nerf and the totality of his lost attack speed delay. In season 6, he receive nerf (mostly) and up (a bit) to his Ultimate and his E.

Third Place : Tryndamere. He got an ASPD Up as well a fury duration UP in season 3. Later in season 3, he got his AP ratio on Q nerfed. Again later in season 3, he got his E cool down reset nerfed. And finally in season 6, he got his Ultimate slightly UPed.

51 Comments

Mogarl16 votes

Since you have a tie for 1st place Pantheon should be in 3rd and Tryndamere should be 4th.

japhib12 votes

This is an interesting post that is not infuriating to read.

Blue Moon Wolf10 votes

Riot: There will come a day when we finally get to updating Wukong's kit and make him feel like a true king, rather then a monkey that we only show any attention too when we are promoting stuff in China...

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/333012091051180033/356578253756170240/giphy.gif

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/333012091051180033/361882830046756864/wukong_01_by_sungben-dbjvi21.png

Sun Wu Ryuumoku7 votes

MonkeyKing They only remember our sacred monkey when they need to sell their stuff.

sutora38 votes

the only way to play wukongitem 3147 item 3142 item 3814 item 3087 item 3031 item 3078

Celestial Lion123 votes

Nah man blukong item 3022 item 3153 item 3004 item 3158 item 3025 item 3508 [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Wukong Airlines10 votes

Yeah, get MonkeyKing to the top, and he'll be nerfed in no time unlike Lee. Its funny how NEWER champs are getting attention and reworks Aatrox RekSai , but MonkeyKing doesn't get the slightest modification in his base or kit damage or scaling.

They'll tell you "but tanky coz passive", but the passive is 0 specially with lethality update and LW, and it's name (stone skin) is taken and put in another item's passive and can give the same AOE resistance Wukongs lvl 16 gives but only with 3 enemies around you (wu requires 5 enemies), and just wait till preseason hits, additional runes will give the same passive as wukong. Talk about unique binary unmanageable passive.

Q got bad scaling, W is binary and provides nothing only potential outplay but doesnt matter in a CC meta anyways, E is easily denied Ex: Thresh and pointclick / enemy dependent, R takes too long to deal damage and all that damage can be easily lifestealed / denied by items or CC + shields,healing by supports (assuming you'd last long in teamfight).

I dunno what is priority in Riot's point of view atm, they almost reworked most champs and Wu cant get the slightest change to keep his mains patience for his unknown when rework.

IPERFECTO3 votes

I think you might forgot something, if they buff something like wuk,they might just break him, and then nerf him into WORSE STATE THAN HE WAS ALL THAT YEARS or they will rework him into completely different champion(HAY GALIO), even though it might be good it won't be wukong i love, and i don't want him to be gutted as it always happens when they trying to buff someone who had marked "forsaken" and become broken after buffs, and i DON'T WANT HIM TO BE BUFFED SO HE CAN INFLUENCE LC$ THIS IS THE BEST WAY TO BE GUTTED.Be carefull what you're asking for. He's extremely fun to play (for me, at least) i have bad games, good games, but have decent amount of games when i did insane impact,some of games when i fell behind and was useless,that's how LoL works.Idk you either want your main to be broken and be overpowered freelo so you can climb or idk...He's not easy champ , and i am not talking about mechs, you need to think with him(in macro way,not micro)

Wukong Airlines3 votes

I want Wukong to be played like Lee and Yasuo, a champ that takes skills, use his nimbus for mobility, and turn his Q staff into a skillshot.

ShadowParker5 votes

Zzz.

It's sad that you're even using Aatrox as an example to prove your point. He's a champion that was gutted and hardly viable while Wukong is more than viable.

Riots priority is hitting champions that need it more, Rek'Sai was helped out because her identity was destroyed so quickly from release, let's not forget it also took around 6 months to fix that.

Wukong still has an identity, and is far from the worse needing an update.

Wait your turn in line, man.

Bob the Toastr2 votes

Yeah, the poor landshark got like 6 nerfs in a row after release

IPERFECTO7 votes

And those 2 champs(karthus and wukong) are viable even now if they're in right hands, it only prooves that those champions were really made well in terms of ballance and not need any changes

Sun Wu Ryuumoku2 votes

mean nothing... Wukong Wr isn't high despite his low pickrate... thats mean all.

IPERFECTO1 votes

{quoted}

And those 2 champs(karthus and wukong) are viable even now if they're in right hands, it only prooves that those champions were really made well in terms of ballance and not need any changes

Bold it for you mate

Sun Wu Ryuumoku2 votes

i misreaded this... "Viable" only in otp hands isn't a good thing IMO... when the champs is so simple

Wukong Airlines1 votes

W is viable? in a CC meta where every new champion released has a slow +/ CC, and it doesnt even provide any passive at all.

R, takes 4 seconds to apply full damage, you know if you want it to deal good damage you need to build much AD, and teamfights dont last that long this season eh?

IPERFECTO1 votes

W can block cc skillshots.And if you manage to knock up 2-3 peoples including carry(who has to be your jump target) he either will get deleted, or will stay insanely low with other enemies knocked,and if we are taking 5v5 scenario, you already did huge impact.even if you will die(you can survive thank to your W late game low cd on 40% cdr tho) you would do your job anyway,or what else do you expect? Ace from one ult? Or full immune?Not to mention knockup is decently long.As i said, Wuk can carry in GOOD hands

Apost6 votes

What is this Karthus you are talking about?

Spoofghoul33 votes

some dude who presses R once every few games or so

Melledoneus4 votes

https://static2.fjcdn.com/comments/It+d+be+a+real+dick+move+if+i+were+to+_a915e0b8dd179ee3a978a1a9ec541245.png?noredirect

Sraeg201313 votes

http://apollo-na-uploads.s3.amazonaws.com/1440538381/karthussoraka.jpeg

XIII Vanitas1 votes

I miss ARAM adventures.

Sraeg20132 votes

I prefer Robot Rampage myself.

Troy2426214 votes

MonkeyKing is just fine. He has his role, he does it well, and doesn't need any tools he doesn't already have to do it; the tools he has aren't un-fun or un-interactive, involve skill expression and are fun to use. Really doesn't need an update.

It's a little anti-synergystic that his E increases AS then his ult prevents auto-attacking, and his passive is just a (tanky) stat stick, but he has withstood the tests of time well, and I love using him.

Blue Moon Wolf4 votes

There are 3 upcoming Runes and an item that all have a version of his passive, one of which is MUCH better then his. His Q exists on 2 other champs, but they not only heal off of it, they also use a secondary mechanic that makes it much more helpful then one armor shred. his E is literally a point and click dash that has limited use when he needs it to save him (Unlike OTHER Divers Camille RekSai Aatrox LeeSin). His W is the worst clone mechanic in the game considering Leblanc and Shaco can both move and attack with their clones (when he SHOULD have the best clone mechanic considering his pedigree) and to top it off, all his power is put into his Ult, which needs to reach level 3 to be REALLY effective .

involve skill expression

You have to be joking here. There is a REASON he is a starter champ. Starter champs have very little skill expression to begin with. He has just as many combos as Xin has now and they are giving him an update cause, you guessed it, he had so LITTLE skill expression. Champs like Azir and Lee Sin have skill expression. Galio has skill expression. Hell, Nunu has skill expression. Wukong is practically an Ult bot in teamfights and crap solo, where honestly he should excel at considering he's a Diver. Even Meddler said that they want to do work on him for similar reasons why they need to update Xin. The fact is, yea, His kit WAS fine... 2-3 years ago before Kits started getting secondary passives, better interaction with other champs and their own kits and more versatile mechanics. Now a days every other champ has better tools at their disposal and the only REAL form of mastery you get from him is knowing the enemy champ better then they know him.

big boi edri3 votes

interactive? He's about as interactive as current XinZhao . E>AA>Q>R, deleted. Should note he's riding it out on item 3147 .

The skill expression is surviving lane when almost every champ counters you with item 3047 . Other than that, get a ghost blade and get to the back line, but that's more a skill expression of the role, not the champ.

Don't get me wrong, I love Wu, but he does need an update.

I Like Teemo3 votes

ehh they are solid urf champs but i don't see them much... no one hates on them, and no one is freelo stomping with them either... they have their place and riot likes it

Kyunsei1 votes

{quoted}

ehh they are solid urf champs but i don't see them much... no one hates on them, and no one is freelo stomping with them either... they have their place and riot likes it

Yeah, I was just wondering which champion should receive rework and then I realized some just never really changed. So I checked which champions were the most unchanged.

UnboundHades8 votes

Well panth is cancer to play against early as a melee since it's just q spam then if u try to farm w e q autos and now your basically dead

EcchiOtakuTM1 votes

Karthus has been consistently a strong pick for KR soloQ. But other regions can't abuse his playstyle.

Autrah Fang2 votes

{quoted}

they have their place and riot likes it

ehhh... can you really say that when i believe Wukong is slated for a Rek'sai/Xin Zhao rework and Pantheon is slated for a VGU at some point?

LankPants3 votes

He then received a W nerf in season 5, losing 20 / 25 / 30 / 35 / 40% slow after 1 second of initial slow duration.

Also known as the dumbest nerf any champion's ever received

Aeszarck1 votes

{quoted}

Also known as the dumbest nerf any champion's ever received

Why was it dumb?

LankPants2 votes

Because Karthus was an average champion at the time. Ever since that nerf he's been a pretty poor champ.

Aeszarck1 votes

{quoted}

Because Karthus was an average champion at the time. Ever since that nerf he's been a pretty poor champ.

I distinctly remember Karthus having a 52-54% winrate at the time, and I remember that mostly because I was using him to extreme success in my games. He was very strong then because of Deathfire Touch and a stronger Rod of Ages.

Guttler3 votes

Pantheon's ult used to be truely global. It was nerfed at the same time as TwistedFate's ult.

Sire Hippington2 votes

Either it's been a really long time or your list is more since(late) S2 rather than since S1, cause i clearly remember bigger changes to pant(less impact and lower cd/cast time on his skills, ult no longer fully global) aswell as a small tryn rework(changed from resourceless with stacks from Q to furry, crit based on furry rather than missing health and some other small changes)

I think looking on the full changelist past release(maybe exept alpha/beta and preseason 1) would be more fitting.

Critmaster Garen2 votes

i recall karthus w reducing armor and mr at some point. they removed that aswell. that 5% nerf on his e was definitely not the only time they touched it. an ult cooldown nerf happened too at some point.

pantheons ult used to be global, just like TwistedFate ult.

tryndamere had a mini update too at some point. he didnt have a rage bar. it was a stack mechanic back then, and he gained more crit the less health he had.

was that all before season 1 or is that list incomplete?

Kyunsei1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=k2vgYJPw,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2017-09-25T16:52:17.342+0000)

i recall karthus w reducing armor and mr at some point. they removed that aswell. that 5% nerf on his e was definitely not the only time they touched it. an ult cooldown nerf happened too at some point.

pantheons ult used to be global, just like TwistedFate ult.

tryndamere had a mini update too at some point. he didnt have a rage bar. it was a stack mechanic back then, and he gained more crit the less health he had.

was that all before season 1 or is that list incomplete?

All season 1 (or 2) Don't really know which patch separate season 1 and season 2.

LordRedStone Nr12 votes

And they all need reworks except for Karthus.

MoldyCheese11 votes

teemo,

was nerfed HARD in season 6 as far back as i can remember and has remained out of meta with awkward builds revolving around nothing made for him thematically.

Corvid1 votes

I really thought quinn would be on the list. I suppose she would have been before her rework. They still ignore that champ. Q.Q

Mordepool1 votes

Was expecting Morgana on that list for sure

Blade of Justic1 votes

Was expecting Blitz since I'm fairly certain he'll never be changed on account of doing what he's meant to do perfectly.

TimX24968B1 votes

fuck, someone found out. rip Tryndamere, heres to hoping riot doesn't find out or the rest of boards, or else he will soon be full of gimmicks like every other new thing in this game because of change for the sake of change (if riot finds out or people get salty enough).

Weiner the Pooh1 votes

And what about Karthus VGU? Does that not count as s modification?

Tolinar1 votes

Trundle got a paint job but has been largely unchanged since his release.

Poske1 votes

Yes somehow Le blanc requires her third rework while being perfectly fine champion curently and before. But lets leave panth in a dust

I am not saying Karthus/Trynda need a rework

Trynda atm is a best splitpusher in a game he has its niche Karthus has its niche to...

I mean they can use small tweaks but they dont need rework

Pantheon and wukong however need bunch of work

Kyunsei1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sub HeroCro,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=k2vgYJPw,comment-id=0014,timestamp=2017-09-26T12:07:53.332+0000)

Yes somehow Le blanc requires her third rework while being perfectly fine champion curently and before. But lets leave panth in a dust

I am not saying Karthus/Trynda need a rework

Trynda atm is a best splitpusher in a game he has its niche Karthus has its niche to...

I mean they can use small tweaks but they dont need rework

Pantheon and wukong however need bunch of work

I'm actually quite happy to see GameplayUpdate pop off here and there nowadays, and not everything ice-cooled for VGU anymore. Why waiting years for a full relaunch when some champ just need some tweaks. (Like Tryndamere )

Final Spark Lux1 votes

Why isn't Lux on the list?

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by Kyunsei

Ardent censer could have Adaptive
Gameplay35 comments
60
votes
God bless the queen a caitlyn's TRAP nerf
Gameplay73 comments
58
votes
I dare you, I say I DARE YOU Riot games, to tell me matchmaking isn't skewed to reach a 50% WR
Gameplay63 comments
45
votes
"statistically if matchmaking is working really well, you’re going to lose about half of your games"
Gameplay79 comments
40
votes
After worlds, will there be work done on JUNGLE catch-up experience ?
Gameplay42 comments
36
votes
Don't stall the balance change the same way as it happened this year ever again please.
Gameplay29 comments
35
votes