Ardent censer could have the new adaptive mechanic, and give either AP or AD to healed target.
Marksmen profit too much of Ardent compared to other carry roles, by removing the AS + on-hit part of Ardent and giving 20 -30 AD/30 - 50 AP (Adaptive) instead it'll be great for basically any class of character.
Auz the Ripper8 votesMy though was just a % damage amp, like say 10%. Pretty much everyone gets equal benefit then
Winterwings5 votesHey, that's actually a good idea... but we'd have to wait for Preseason 8 since i doubt the "Adaptive" mechanic is supported by the game atm...
Zone of Endless7 votes[{quoted}](name=Azure Northwing,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MvKqiEn3,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-09-30T16:20:07.889+0000)
Hey, that's actually a good idea... but we'd have to wait for Preseason 8 since i doubt the "Adaptive" mechanic is supported by the game atm...
it sorta is with camille. Her shield activate differently depending on who she's fighting. Target has more AP and her shield is magic while against AD her shield is physical
SweedishGunner9 votesIt's based on how much damage of each type the target has dealt, not their values.
For example I fought a Camille yesterday as Leona, and she got a magic damage shield against me despite me having 90AD compared to 15AP.
morris11 votesThis exactly.
It's also affected by how much armor / magic resist Camille has.
My Waifu Vanilla1 votesit was worse when nasus maxed E top and you always got magic damage shield.
Winterwings1 votesI stand corrected in that case, Camille's passive totally slipped off my radar...
Zone of Endless1 votes[{quoted}](name=Azure Northwing,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MvKqiEn3,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2017-10-01T18:40:45.797+0000)
I stand corrected in that case, Camille's passive totally slipped off my radar...
Well i was wrong in the way it activates too but I think you get the idea. We already have something that work adaptively now so it is supported in the game.
Flawless Fetus1 votes[{quoted}](name=Azure Northwing,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MvKqiEn3,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-09-30T16:20:07.889+0000)
Hey, that's actually a good idea... but we'd have to wait for Preseason 8 since i doubt the "Adaptive" mechanic is supported by the game atm...
It is. Camille passive. Obviously hers is defensive, but it's proof that the game can identify whether a champion in primarily ad or ap and generate a power spike based off of that.
Durzaka5 votesBecause we really need Draven with Janna who has an Ardent Censer one shotting people as soon as the Censer is complete.
Kyunsei1 votesBecause we really need Draven with Janna who has an Ardent Censer one shotting people as soon as the Censer is complete.
I'm too tired to calculate, but I'm pretty sure the damage would be around the same for Draven.
30 AD certainly does 106.5 damage on hit when Draven Crit and have Q up. so 106.5 VS 35. But 35% ASPD is worth 0.238 ASPD on Draven, which will have more or less effect depending of Draven bonus ASPD (The less base bonus aspd he have, the more 0.238 ASPD increase his total damage output, vice versa.) //// SOME LATE GAME MATH HERE ////
Let's say he got 300 AD, 70% crit chance, 1.5 ASPD, IE in his pocket and level 18.
He'll deal a base damage of 922 damage per second without Q. With Q, he'll deal a base damage of 1305 damage per second.
In cases of + 30 AD, he'll deal 1017 without Q and 1446 with Q up. In case of current Ardent, he'll deal 1121 without Q and 1572 with Q up.
////
If my math is off, sorry guys, it's 3 AM here.
Durzaka2 votesOverall the damage might balance out.
But early on extra AD is VERY VERY powerful for Draven. As he can just throw an axe, and back off, and always win every trade, especially when combined with janna (he already can do this with Janna, this would just make it more powerful).
YuGiHo3 votesWould it be bad that the item is a bit better on him than it is on other champions? Current ardent is way better on kog and varus then other adc
Durzaka1 votesArdent is good on Trist and vayne (less extent) as well.
The difference is when Draven is top tier, he is ridiculously disgusting compared to when other ADCs are top tier. He literally gets one kill and can snowball from there if he is competent. And he is already really good right now.
SmokinSickStyle4 votesNo, ardent needs to be removed / changed if Riot was ever serious about items giving hidden power or some champs being stat checking ones.
Even in its current state it's still strong, it's still the item that you MUST build if you ever try to teamfight.
The difference between a team that has it and a team who doesn't is huge.
Locket can have a huge impact as well, but at least it has a decent cooldown and shields decay rapidly.
That change won't really fix much, it just makes everyone have extra power as ADC are having now.
Celestial Lion126 votesoh yes the item that existed for almost 2 years before riot chose to buff it, now omg ardent too op please remove from the game [zombie-brand-facepalm]
SmokinSickStyle2 votesExactly, in your attempt to sound funny you proved my point.
What was happening to pre-ardent meta?
Nobody was building it, because it was too weak or other items were straight out better.
The moment ardent gets really nerfed everyone will be back to rush redemption, which is a MUCH healthier item, it has CD, and has a huge delay both teams can play around, even if redemption was OP with a bit of tuning it became balanced, a solid item that you can choose to build or not, depending on what your team needs.
I didn't say the removal was the only option, ardent can be changed not to be just a "throw extra stat worth 1k+ gold at your team" kinda item.
Karn Bishop3 votesBy that logic we should still have many items that were removed for being unhealthy in the current game because hey they existed for so long without problems until something changed and now its clear that the items design is just a failure so lets scrap it type thing.
Laurënt3 votesYou even further proven how Arden Censer, as an item, is fucking retarded.
The buff to Ardent Censer is 1)unnecessary, and 2)gives utility supports way too much power. But what does Riot decide to do? Nerfs utility champions and attempts to "fix" Ardent Censer, an item that is - with the buffs earlier in season 7 - by nature overpowered.
Kyunsei3 votesNo, ardent needs to be removed / changed if Riot was ever serious about items giving hidden power or some champs being stat checking ones.
Even in its current state it's still strong, it's still the item that you MUST build if you ever try to teamfight.
The difference between a team that has it and a team who doesn't is huge.
Locket can have a huge impact as well, but at least it has a decent cooldown and shields decay rapidly.
That change won't really fix much, it just makes everyone have extra power as ADC are having now.
Hey, thanks for answering. I think that removing Ardent would indeed fix the problem, but the same way as killing someone would cure him from his sickness.
My option would still be hidden power as you said, but at least it would smooth this power through more people who'll benefiting it and won't alienate as much as Marksmen currently alienate other classes.
muted team chat4 votesor instead of making it EVEN better it should be nerfed because it was the single worst thing to happen to season 7
Meep Man3 votesIf they removed attack speed from it, it should probably give 25-40 AD and then 35-55 AP. Those numbers are really small compared to current Ardent, which is fine as is as far as power goes. (might need stat nerfs if any nerfs)
Gamer Life1 votesI dont think they would make a change like that till preseason as worlds are on atm
Fairyfleur1 votesWorlds is playing on a previous patch; there's no reason why not.
Gamer Life1 votesWorlds is playing on a previous patch; there's no reason why not.
yes there on a previous but when worlds is on they have to be ready to fix something change something on that patch if something that they only change the number on thing and nothing else when worlds is on, so that they are always ready
Flawless Fetus1 votes[{quoted}](name=Gamer Life,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MvKqiEn3,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-09-30T16:37:50.971+0000)
I dont think they would make a change like that till preseason as worlds are on atm
You're probably right, but pro games aren't played on the live patch anyway.
Gamer Life1 votes[{quoted}](name=Blended Fetus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MvKqiEn3,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2017-10-01T04:46:13.676+0000)
You're probably right, but pro games aren't played on the live patch anyway.
yes there on a previous but when worlds is on they have to be ready to fix something change something on that patch if something that they only change the number on thing and nothing else when worlds is on
Moooose21 votesIt was made as a marksman/onhit item. that's what it's meant for, of course it's strong on them..
xJLx MCHammer1 votesUnfortunately, Riot is fixated on support itemization benefiting ADC's the most.
ADC2017 am i right. lol
Rathar Dashing2 votesThat's why Redemption only heals the ADC, Mikaels only works on the ADC and Locket only shields the ADC. And of course we all know sightstone wards are only beneficial to the ADC.
xJLx MCHammer1 votes[{quoted}](name=Rathar Dashing,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MvKqiEn3,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2017-10-01T14:39:44.445+0000)
That's why Redemption only heals the ADC, Mikaels only works on the ADC and Locket only shields the ADC. And of course we all know sightstone wards are only beneficial to the ADC.
LOL
Read what I said
It benefits the ADC the most.
Redemption: A tank doesn't not benefit from redemption as much as a ADC does because of the amount it heals. To a tank the health is minimal. Locket: Again, for the tank it's about 15% of their health, it's not a lot. For an assassin, he tends to split push, it doesn't help them much. Knights Vow: The mechanic and design of this item is meant to be for an ADC or attack based champions. Clearly, it's meant to help ADC's the most Ardent: Same design and mechanic like knight's vow
As far as Mikaels and Signtstone goes. It benefits the adc more because Sightstone is used mostly in bot lane during laning. It benefits adcs and supports the most. Yes, it benefits other teammates as well Mikael is meant to remove a CC from carries. Tell me how does it benefit a tank? OH RIGHT!, it doesnt
chipndip13 votes[{quoted}](name=xJLx MCHammer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MvKqiEn3,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2017-10-01T16:48:58.237+0000)
LOL
Read what I said
It benefits the ADC the most.
Redemption: A tank doesn't not benefit from redemption as much as a ADC does because of the amount it heals. To a tank the health is minimal.
What? Tanks have resistances, which means 500 healing to a tank goes a longer distance than 500 healing on someone with no added resistances. To boot, they build SV sometimes, so that increases healing further.
Locket: Again, for the tank it's about 15% of their health, it's not a lot. For an assassin, he tends to split push, it doesn't help them much.
Again, the more resistances you have, the higher value healing/shielding is on you.
As far as Mikaels and Signtstone goes. It benefits the adc more because
Can you stop? Just stop doing what you're doing?
Rathar Dashing2 votesYou pretty much made every point I was going to. Thank you~ [sg-ahri-2]
Athenes Lulu1 votesSupporting AD or AP casters? Sign me up!
Nymzo1 votesWe should we just rework Ardent into not a game changer item so supports can stop being item bots, how about that?