Why the current PBE nid nerf is bad,

SwiftKitten88··3 votes·673 views

regardless of the fact if you think nid needs a nerf or not.. let me explain why the CURRENT nerf on pbe.. will have the opposite effect of what it is trying to do

first ill start with the nerf

Nidalee Pounce (Cougar W) Cooldown increased to 7/6.5/6/5.5/5 from 5 at all ranks. [Hunted target reset adjusted to 3.5 - 2 seconds from 3-1.5]

now to those of you who do NOT play nidalee, and have absolutely no understanding of how she works. when you land a spear on a hunted target.. if you pounce in and land on them the cooldown of pounce in reset down to its "reset level"

so right on on live nidalee pounce is always 5 seconds.. but when you land on a hunted target after pouncing to them it gets reduced to 3/2.5/2/1.5 per level of your ultimate

now for those of your who remember season 3 pre-rework nid, you will know that when nidalee sits back and throws spear all day... she is a freaking bitch to fight.... you can never get in range to kill her

now as much as you might hate nidalee right now, nidalee rework gave her VERY clear counterplay. that she DID NOT HAVE before her rework

because now and ever since her rework, instead of ALL her damage coming from her spear, post rework about 30-40 % comes from the spear and the other 60% comes from the pounce in swipe and takedown.

MEANING if nidalee was to deal any sort of decent damage she NEEDS to pounce in.

so based on this data it would SEEM that that patch changes are fine

the longer she is in melee range the more opportunity she has for counterplay.. simple. and in fact that is true...

but the PROBLEM is.. that ISN'T what is going to happen if this change goes live.

because when im playing nidalee. if i land a spear on a target.. great, i did a chunk of damage.

but AFTER the spear lands.. the nid player has to make a choice. do i stay back and stay safe and try to throw more spears to get them lower? or do i pounce in now and try to deal as much damage as i can and (hopefully) kill them and get out safely.

now right off the bat.. ANY melee champ with any for of CC means im not pouncing in if its a teamfight with a bunch of player groups i am likely not going to pounce in.

but the major thing right now is.. you just added a half second to the amount of time i will be in range if i pounce in before i can get out so IF i pounce in i will have more counterplay, but now that i am more likely to DIE if i pounce in.. i am NOT going to pounce in as much.

as guess what.. when nid DOESN'T pounce and and just throws spears all day ... we have season 3 nidalee again.

so while it may SOUND like we are giving nidalee MORE counterplay by increasing the time she is in melee range after a pounce, we are instead LOWERING the time she will be in melee range. because guess what.. i DIDN'T pounce in.. so instead of increase my counterplay time by .5 seconds. you now have at last 4 seconds before i can land another spear and decide whether or not to pounce in again, and that for season is assuming that i have 40% cdr.. (which i dont normally have) it is assuming that i throw the spear the instant it comes off cooldown.. (which no one does) and it is assuimg i LANDED the spear.. (which isnt always easy)

by nerfing nidalee's escape after pouncing in, in an attempt to give her more counter-play, you are acting REMOVING her counter-play because she is NOT going to go in as much because it isn't SAFE anymore.

so regardless of whether or not nidalee NEEDS a nerf or not... THIS nerf will have the exact opposite of the intended effect, and DECREASE her counterplay instead of INCREASING IT

8 Comments

Mistress Shyvana3 votes

Give this person a cookie

Mimy1 votes

This nerf won't affect me as a new nidalee player... I play her as a support for now.

But most of her support area is in her Human kit.

SwiftKitten881 votes

{quoted}

This nerf won't affect me as a new nidalee player... I play her as a support for now.

But most of her support area is in her Human kit.

god i miss the days i could player her as support. what killed her as support more than anything else the the removal of % hp from traps. becuase right now no one freaking cares if they take 40 damage from a trap, even if they walk over 6 of them... to get to you.

but if you walk over 6 traps that all deal 10% hp, you going to be hurting.

you used to be able to zone people with her traps like Caitlyn can do with hers, and yeah it was never anywhere NEAR as effective as cait traps are right now. but.. it was a least a strong deterrent.

becuase when your playing nidalee in the mid lane (back when she could) and you play a trap that just lost the % hp. and you see the enemy TwistedFate go out of there way, and skip CS just so they can stand on your trap and dance "gangnam style" on it. you realize that traps don't do jack shit anymore

Mimy1 votes

The traps are cool, but i don't use them as damage as much as I use them for more vision purposes..

I place them in the tri-bush or other places and because Like you said, no one cares about walking over them..

I take deathfire touch, the traps actually proc deathfire, so every time someone walks over a trap I see my keystone flash around me and point. and if its pointing towards the jungle, I know a gank is coming...

#However traps are not the aspect of nidalee's kit that made me take her as support.

It was her heal.. Not only is it pretty potent, it gives attack speed.

200(+50% AP) and 60% attack speed.

Couple that with item 3504 that's around 75% attack speed, A much larger heal.. almost Soraka W potent... and 30 Magic damage on hit..


But if you wanted to be a heal bot you'd play soraka... I take deathfire because IM CHUCKING SPEARS AT PEOPLE... And I have been getting pretty good

#Omg when you hit those blind estimated spears...

R181 votes

Nidalees being changed around competitve play, where she is dominant. This nerf in no way gives "no counterplay", and she is incredibly weak in lower Elos. (I'm a part of low Elo btw G5)

SwiftKitten881 votes

{quoted}

Nidalees being changed around competitve play, where she is dominant. This nerf in no way gives "no counterplay", and she is incredibly weak in lower Elos. (I'm a part of low Elo btw G5)

yes but the point is this nerf isnt the way to do it. the problem with nidalee in hgiher elo that she DOESN'T have in lower elo is ONE major thing. and i took me a long time lying in bed last night to figure exactly what it was.. is that HIGHER elo nid player start W and traps for an EXTREMELY fast clear, and the ability to easily escape if they are invaded

where at lower elo players start Q becuase starting W means that you have to kit abilsitely perfectly every time and even 1 or 2 extra hits will me you fail your clear and get executed or have to base short of you full clear. and dont get W until lvl 3 meaning they can be easily invaded and unless they get help from a ally.. they are pretty much screwed.

but guess what.. LOWER elo nid player DON'T start W anymore be they CAN'T perfectly clear EVERY time to make it effective

so what i now think is the proper nerf to do is REMOVE the ability for TRAPS to proc hunted, and instead give them the "true vision" they had in season 1-3.

not only will this remove the abilty for nid to start W which is the issue thati THINK makes higher elo nid OP

it will also lower her clear speed becuase now if you want to take the short route of a wall with an long range pounc to the camp.. you HAVe to do it with a spear.. becuase you can no longer do it from traps

again this will make her clear slower.

on the other hand, as compensation for this.. nidalee will get TRUE vison on her traps.. so they will once again revealed stealth like they havent done since before her rework, the will once again work and reveal from ANYWHERE on the map.. AND they WON'T give nidalee the bonus movement speed becuase they are not hunted.

yes i think this makes zero sense lore wise.. but w/e balance is more important than lore.

and THIS would be a change i find MORE than acceptable the stuff on pbe, and one which i believe will have a VERY big effect on higher elo nid play.. much mre so that the PBE change, while at the same and almost ZERO effect on lower elo nid play, which is somone the pbe change will destroy if it goes live, and lower nid WON'T realize that pouncing in inst safe anymore.

TeemoXNidalee1 votes

I honestly think they should revert her to season 3 status, but keep the hunt passive.

Maximum Morde1 votes

And? We can just nerf her spear damage, then leave her in the back alley dumpster where she belongs.

Face it, she just needs a rework. No matter what they've done, they can't balance this kit. From nuclear tipped intercontinental ballistic spear launch platfirm, to tanky Triforce top, back to jungle Nidalee, she is always cancerous with this kit. They need to toss her into a garbage can like they did to Yorick until they can rework her.

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