Why is poppy allowed to invalidate champions with dashes while not being extremely weak to the rest?

ValyrianBlade··2 votes·668 views

Yes, I just lost lane badly to a Poppy. Yes I'm whining about it.

My problem isn't so much that Poppy beats champions with dashes, it's that she doesn't hard-lose to champions who don't have them. I mean, we're seeing her picked blind in pro-play, that's beyond enough evidence that she's a relatively safe pick against just about anything.

And why? If Poppy was built to deny dashes, you'd think a first pick Poppy should never exist. She should only be strong (or dare I say it, viable) when she's picked in to a team that has dashes (or at least a lane opponent). Yet she functions perfectly well in those scenarios too.

I mean, ignoring her dash-denial, what else does she have that makes her so strong? A dash herself which doubles as a stun if she pushes you into terrain. A movement speed boost A good aoe damage / waveclear ability A hard CC ultimate that can also single-handedly change the course of a teamfight or steal/secure Baron A passive which gives her a basically free lane as she can CS from range and then get a shield to deny damage when she CS's as melee.

To me, that passive sticks out like a sore thumb. It's overloaded. She has so much in her kit to punish enemies without it, yet it sits there to protect her against anyone that would punish her. Why does she get to have her only weakness almost completely covered up while so strongly denying strengths / creating weaknesses in other champions?

As I said, I have no issue with her being a strong counter to mobility. I have no problem with her being a staple COUNTERPICK in the pro scene. I have a huge problem that she's able to do so well against immobile champions too though. She should have some weakness shouldn't she? She shouldn't be a safe blind-pick, she should only really succeed as a counterpick and otherwise be open to some risks if you want to pick her blind? Right?

5 Comments

Anonagon4 votes

She doesn't invalidate champions with dashes. She can block a single dash per enemy, on an ability with a 24 second cooldown earlygame. You don't automatically lose lane to her if you have a dash.

No champion actually has that kind of "Hard counters a single group of champion, loses hard to every other champion" dynamic that you say Poppy should have, and no champion should have that kind of dynamic because then games become decided in champion select.

Packun Flower3 votes
  • A good aoe damage / waveclear ability

Are you sure this was Poppy? Poppy's wave clear is terrible, you are lucky to hit 3 minions with her Q lol.

  • A passive which gives her a basically free lane as she can CS from range and then get a shield to deny damage when she CS's as melee.

Your talking about an ability that has a 16 second cool down and she has no control over her, she cant exactly CS for free with it, she can get maybe 1 or two minions from the wave if she was just using her passive alone.

  • A dash herself which doubles as a stun if she pushes you into terrain.

Vayne "Hi, I do that to except I dont have to put in the risk of being close to you to do it."

all in all Poppy does really bad VS some "Immobile" champs. Darius is her greatest counter. He out damaged, out sustains and out tanks her in everyday, it's impossible for Poppy to fight him.

I see you play a lot of Quinn top. You shouldn't be losing to Pop's as you can easily harass her with your range. I am willing to bet you are both A) fighting Poppy near walls and B) being to aggressive with Quinn's dash attack. Just fight her in the middle of the lane, learn to kite her, even with her speed boost if your building Attack speed and Life steal you can easily out sustain her damage as quinn. Fight her in the middle of the lane not near the walls or in the bushes, and learn to be patient, when she procs her anti dash skill wait for it to be over BEFORE trying to use your dash.

Teemo Also annoying as !@#4 to deal with as Poppy.

Fiora True damage and out damaged. Nope, also wrecks Poppy's day.

That's just a few of many who can easily beat Poppy lane. shes not as OP as your making her out to be, her anti dash mechanic is part of her core identity, it doesn't need to be nerfed you just need to learn to deal with it. Be patient when its up wait for the Cd before going in on her and you'll get her no problem.

Requiemsfire1 votes

Pretty sure Poppy crushes teemo and Quinn in lane however that's not to say she is OP. She's a tank and when tanks jump onto a squishy champion early in the game when their bases are high you shouldn't be able to outburst them.

ValyrianBlade1 votes

{quoted}

  • A good aoe damage / waveclear ability

Are you sure this was Poppy? Poppy's wave clear is terrible, you are lucky to hit 3 minions with her Q lol.

  • A passive which gives her a basically free lane as she can CS from range and then get a shield to deny damage when she CS's as melee.

Your talking about an ability that has a 16 second cool down and she has no control over her, she cant exactly CS for free with it, she can get maybe 1 or two minions from the wave if she was just using her passive alone.

  • A dash herself which doubles as a stun if she pushes you into terrain.

Vayne "Hi, I do that to except I dont have to put in the risk of being close to you to do it."

all in all Poppy does really bad VS some "Immobile" champs. Darius is her greatest counter. He out damaged, out sustains and out tanks her in everyday, it's impossible for Poppy to fight him.

I see you play a lot of Quinn top. You shouldn't be losing to Pop's as you can easily harass her with your range. I am willing to bet you are both A) fighting Poppy near walls and B) being to aggressive with Quinn's dash attack. Just fight her in the middle of the lane, learn to kite her, even with her speed boost if your building Attack speed and Life steal you can easily out sustain her damage as quinn. Fight her in the middle of the lane not near the walls or in the bushes, and learn to be patient, when she procs her anti dash skill wait for it to be over BEFORE trying to use your dash.

Teemo Also annoying as !@#4 to deal with as Poppy.

Fiora True damage and out damaged. Nope, also wrecks Poppy's day.

That's just a few of many who can easily beat Poppy lane. shes not as OP as your making her out to be, her anti dash mechanic is part of her core identity, it doesn't need to be nerfed you just need to learn to deal with it. Be patient when its up wait for the Cd before going in on her and you'll get her no problem.

Actually, it's JarvanIV that I have obscene troubles against Poppy as. I burn two cooldowns to engage and she counters it with her W. She can throw her passive at me then aggressively trade with me and a Q-empowered auto doesn't even break the shield. If I ult her to ignore her w, she can slam me in to my own wall. She can freely tower dive me as soon as she pushes the lane in (level 3) as the shield from her passive tanks the turret shot, her stun on me prevents retaliation (into my turret as I try to CS under tower), then my e-q to try to keep her under my turret results in a W that does even more damage to me now.

Which I'm fine with - J4 can lose to Poppy. It's a valid counterpick. I don't beat Poppy with Quinn either though. I play Quinn much as you suggest, but it's basically an even lane where Poppy outscales me. Her passive lets her stay healthy in lane while not having to give up CS like most other melee top laners have to against Quinn. The threat of her E prevents me from aggressively chasing her along a wall. Her Q really can waveclear if she corrals the melee minions on top of the casters she can easily get all 6 with it. I feel like Quinn SHOULD beat Poppy because I can outrange her charge with my auto attacks, assault her with my Q, I can save the E until after she uses W (much like I would save Quinn's E against Fiora's riposte) but it all doesn't matter as her passive denies any attempt I make to fight her early.

Darius counters her - makes sense. He was a staple in pro play, so why is he never picked against her at worlds now? Both he and Fiora have proven to be viable in pro play so if they really do beat her so bad I don't get why it's constantly Jayce/Rumble picked against her rather than one of them. Especially with how much everyone seems to be prioritizing winning lanes.

Big Lincoln2 votes

poppy gets fucked up by other bruisers

those bruisers just aren't good in pro play rn, because unlike poppy they aren't good vs the ranged top bullshit

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