Title.
It'd really help as a counter to penetration and crit chance, without having to interact with either. Of course, it would have to have a pretty low cap.
EDIT: Okay, by "pretty low" I meant like 5%, guys. Geesh.
FrogBeatsWorld4 votesFucking no. Even a low cap will make for more bullshit than you people whining about "broken" champs.
JustMyBassCannon3 votesThe counter to an RNG effect should never be a separate bit of RNG.
The Ecdysiast2 votesWell.
100% isn't random.
It's also quite easy to get upwards of 80% just doing a normal ADC build.
JustMyBassCannon3 votesThat has nothing to do with my point.
If you have an RNG effect, the counter needs to be consistent. Otherwise, the counter will always polarize to overbearing or worthless, especially if there's a low cap on one of them.
The Ecdysiast1 votesAgain, 100% doesn't make the affect random any more. It's pretty consistent. There's a pretty small cap for NOT critically striking, at the moment.
Do you have any other suggestions? I was thinking an item that reduces the critical strike chance of enemies a certain amount, maybe on a last-enemy-hit basis. Then there'd be a counter for 100% crit chance besides the armor that doesn't mean shit with Yasuo's ultimate and Mortal Reminder+Last Whisper.
JustMyBassCannon3 votesAgain, 100% doesn't make the affect random any more.
AND THAT MEANS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. It takes 3-4 items on anyone that isn't Tryndamere or Yasuo to hit 100% chance, and even if others do intentionally build to that point, the effect is still based in RNG, and the counter needs to be something that activates every time, such as Randuin's Omen reducing the damage of Crits.
The only random roll factor in the equation should be the offensive one, i.e. Crit. The defensive factor needs to always activate in response instead of having a chance to work.
The Ecdysiast1 votesGee thanks for ignoring my comment entirely.
JustMyBassCannon2 votesYou started it by ignoring the point of my comment entirely.
If defending against an effect that has a chance to activate--whether 1% or 100%--the defense needs to activate every time the offensive effect activates. Otherwise, you will run into the problem of the defense not activating against the offense, or of it activating more frequently than you could expect from that chance.
This was the problem with Dodge Chance.
The Ecdysiast1 votesI didn't ignore it. You provided 0 evidence to even consider, and still haven't.
JustMyBassCannon2 votesBecause my counter-point is a game design principle based on facts.
The Ecdysiast1 votesAgain, something you can only say if you present said facts.
JustMyBassCannon2 votesIf you have an offensive factor based on RNG, and you make the defense against it also random, the lower reliability means that the effect needs to make up for it in strength, otherwise people would just build Armor instead of Dodge. This is how balancing RNG works; because it's less reliable, it needs to be powerful on the occasions that it does happen.
Having the main defense against an RNG rely on separate RNG causes a binary issue in which it either activates and is an extremely powerful negation, or it doesn't activate and it was absolutely worthless. In the first case, the attacker feels powerless because there's little to nothing they can do about them dodging the attack (Sword of the Divine was worthless, don't even bother). In the second case, the defender is frustrated because they might have survived if they dodged even one attack, but it didn't happen.
And then, when you could get a higher Dodge Chance and it was activating more often than not, it would force them to buy a garbage item just so they might have a chance of winning a fight.
This was the reason that Dodge Chance was removed; it was either unreliable because it didn't activate, or overpowered because it activated multiple times and was the sole deciding factor of the fight.
Now we come to the main point; what happened to the Dodge Chance items?
Well, look at them!
Ninja Tabi was immediately shifted from 12% Dodge Chance to 10% DR from basic attacks. In a world of perfect probability, that made it grant approximately the same defensive bonus without posing the issue of RNG activating over and over to provide a much higher effective defense.
Phantom Dancer took a breather, then came back with its own 12% DR effect as well, applying to all damage from a target rather than just basic attack damage. It not only gained a more universal defense bonus, but also switched from RNG to consistent defense.
From that, we can conclude that Riot probably wants more consistent defense factors in this game, instead of RNG defenses. While it's true that not all games follow such a model--as an avid tabletop gamer, I can most definitely point to a few dozen examples--we're focusing on League of Legends.
The Ecdysiast1 votesRiot's desires are not something you can use as evidence, as that's something even they are unsure of.
As it stands, they only recently made it so that Dodged attacks correctly negate on-hit affects, which is something they've desired to do for a long time and haven't until recently.
With crit chance how it currently is, with 100% being a very easy number to claim at 6 items, it's not longer RNG vs RNG, it would be a defensive RNG vs a consistent number.
JustMyBassCannon1 votesRiot's desires are not something you can use as evidence, as that's something even they are unsure of.
In the case of League's design principles, yes, I can use what Riot wants as evidence.
"Unsure of" what they want? They occasionally have conflicting messages, or make a statement that they later recant because it turns out they were wrong. Pretty sure they know what they want.
As it stands, they only recently made it so that Dodged attacks correctly negate on-hit affects, which is something they've desired to do for a long time and haven't until recently.
And that's on a 100% dodge chance ability specific to one und only von champion.
With crit chance how it currently is, with 100% being a very easy number to claim at 6 items, it's not longer RNG vs RNG, it would be a defensive RNG vs a consistent number.
JustMyBassCannon1 votes
- Before now, buying 100% Crit put you at a disadvantage. Now, you can still be effective.
You need 4-5 item slots devoted to Crit Chance. The only ones with any AD on them are Infinity Edge and Trinity Force. You're losing a lot of damage output if you push for 100% Crit on anyone that isn't Yasuo or Tryndamere.
2) At 100%, it is no longer random, regardless of the fact it still is at 95%.
It is no longer random at 100%, but that does not stop it from being an RNG effect.
3) It is not "either worthless or overpowered." It's a risk, just like buying Brawler's Glove as a first item is a risk for the early game.
Yes, it is. This is the exact, stated reason why they removed Dodge Chance in the first place. Either it wasn't activating, and the person lost the fight because the defense was worthless, or it activated multiple times and they survived/won because it was negating the damage at a far higher rate than 12% would suggest, becoming an overpowering defense stat.
There is no middle ground for Dodge Chance. None. And that's why it was removed, that's why it's going to stay gone. If you still want it, I suggest you make your own game.
Good thing I quoted your post before you deleted it.
PotatoMine2 votesThere is a very good reason they removed it
Sinister Anubis1 votesTitle.
It'd really help as a counter to penetration and crit chance, without having to interact with either. Of course, it would have to have a pretty low cap.
Did you forget that dodge runes was only 7.5% that is low as hell but yet it was broken as fuck. It was the best runes in yellow by far. There is a reason it was removed lol
The Ecdysiast1 votesI didn't forget anything.
I just wasn't playing back then and heard about it.
But no, 7.5 is not low by any means at all. I was thinking like 5%. That's one in every 20 auto attacks.