Can this please not go live?

RexSaur·Mar 25, 2017·3 votes·648 views

Like holy shit riot, this would be as bad as taking someone like renekton and giving him infinite scaling.

26 Comments

ModThe DjinnMar 25, 20175 votes

Weird. It's like if you take a character into a game mode where you can cast spells with no cost or cooldown against an unresponsive and invincible enemy and then do so, you end up more powerful than you would in a normal game by an enormously huge factor. :P

In actuality, we'll probably be looking at numbers closer to or slightly above where Veigar typically ends up. So something like 300-600 extra mana, and 100-200 extra damage.

RexSaurMar 25, 20174 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jkkJMaQ5,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-03-25T16:23:10.889+0000)

Weird. It's like if you take a character into a game mode where you can cast spells with no cost or cooldown against an unresponsive and invincible enemy and then do so, you end up more powerful than you would in a normal game by an enormously huge factor. :P

In actuality, we'll probably be looking at numbers closer to or slightly above where Veigar typically ends up. So something like 300-600 extra mana, and 100-200 extra damage.

Its actually insanely easy for her to get a lot of stacks because there is no cd, and her playstyle is basically mashing Q on your opponent on cd.

Not saying it'll get this dumb, but giving a early game bully/obnoxious lane champ late game infinite scaling is retarded.

Would you be ok if jayce could get infinite ad too by autoing you?

ModThe DjinnMar 25, 20171 votes

{quoted}Its actually insanely easy for her to get a lot of stacks because there is no cd, and her playstyle is basically mashing Q on your opponent on cd.

Her Q is currently 70-90 mana on the PBE, and her base mana is 304. It has a 6 second cooldown, and can be dodged, but is AoE. It has to hit champions, instead of Veigar or Nasus's ability to hit anything.

I think the Veigar approximation is still the closest, since you have to sink a lot of mana into trying to hit enemies as often as possible. We'll see in testing, but I don't expect to see game where she gets much over maybe +300-350 damage, tops, save in COMPLETELY one-sided games.

ok if jayce could get infinite ad too by autoing you?

Parallel isn't really exact, since AAs have no resource cost and a MUCH shorter cooldown. Closer approximations are Nasus and Veigar, and I'm actually fine with both of those. :)

RexSaurMar 25, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jkkJMaQ5,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2017-03-25T16:31:30.652+0000)

Her Q is currently 70-90 mana on the PBE, and her base mana is 304. It has a 6 second cooldown, and can be dodged, but is AoE. It has to hit champions, instead of Veigar or Nasus's ability to hit anything.

I think the Veigar approximation is still the closest, since you have to sink a lot of mana into trying to hit enemies as often as possible. We'll see in testing, but I don't expect to see game where she gets much over maybe +300-350 damage, tops, save in COMPLETELY one-sided games.

Parallel isn't really exact, since AAs have no resource cost and a MUCH shorter cooldown. Closer approximations are Nasus and Veigar, and I'm actually fine with both of those. :)

The difference being that nasus and veigar are trash tier early game until the have stacks, liss bullies most of melee champs top.

So you're giving infinite scaling to a lane bully, great idea im sure it will not make her pick or ban /s.

ModThe DjinnMar 25, 20171 votes

{quoted}The difference being that nasus and veigar are trash tier early game until the have stacks, liss bullies most of melee champs top.

We'll see. It could easily be oppressive in top lane especially. I think it's definitely worth testing, at least -- whether or not it's a good solution depends on the actuality of the ability in play, which we haven't seen yet. The video you posted is a little ridiculous and not at all indicative of her in a real game -- once we have more real game data I'll be better able to comment. :)

RexSaurMar 25, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jkkJMaQ5,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2017-03-25T16:49:27.859+0000)

We'll see. It could easily be oppressive in top lane especially. I think it's definitely worth testing, at least -- whether or not it's a good solution depends on the actuality of the ability in play, which we haven't seen yet. The video you posted is a little ridiculous and not at all indicative of her in a real game -- once we have more real game data I'll be better able to comment. :)

It should not go live.

The jinx change that was far less ridiculous than this got reverted, if this in any shape or form goes live then riot balance team is way too biased.

JbelsMar 25, 20171 votes

{quoted}

It should not go live.

The jinx change that was far less ridiculous than this got reverted, if this in any shape or form goes live then riot balance team is way too biased.

So you're fine with an ability doing more damage alone than this passive will ever do by itself from twice the range, that also has a slow attached? Seriously?

CatastropMar 25, 20171 votes

No she does not, maybe early S5 she did, but in this day and age there are a plethora of melee champions that could care less about facing Liss at top lane. As a matter of fact, she loses or barely goes even against a majority of them. It's the entire reason why she's barely played top in the first place these days.

Tahminatrix Mar 25, 20171 votes

Well she isn`t really a lane bully, most of the time her spells are used defensively until lvl 6

JavelinJoeMar 25, 20171 votes

Except when she can poke out any melee in the top lane with her Q spam which is hard to dodge because of the second part where it splits. Not to mention her wave clear is really good.

Nik NikersonMar 25, 20171 votes

Her Q spam is because of her current passive that lets her cast a spell for free. Without that, she can't afford to constantly be throwing abilities at her opponent early. Which in turn is going to make it much harder to stack the new passive.

JavelinJoeMar 25, 20171 votes

Well, normally yes, but you forget. Now she can grab item 3070 and her passive gives her a permanent mana increase, so her Q spam will still happen.

CatastropMar 25, 20171 votes

There is a 1.5 second cd on the passive. Not only that, but she needs to hit an enemy champion to even get the stack. This isn't even like Veigar or Nasus where they can at least stack on minions, Liss is gated completely by having to hit champions with her autos.

Dominick DestineMar 25, 20171 votes

{quoted}

her playstyle is basically mashing Q on your opponent on cd.

You mean her insanely high mana, low range Q?

Ahahaha, Lissandra could stand to get a buff, this is a good direction.

Lil Lewd WitchMar 25, 20171 votes

Okay, but what game is going to have Lissandra ACTUALLY reaching 50k Mana.....

BLACK REALM GODMar 25, 20171 votes

i noticed that you have unnatural stacks on her. how many can she get in a regular match?

JavelinJoeMar 25, 20171 votes

I would say still a decent amount depending on lane match up and game type. Her abilities are fairly easy to hit enemy champions with, especially her Q and point and click ult.

BLACK REALM GODMar 25, 20171 votes

run it with archangel staff and max attack speed and see what you get at 60 minutes in a live session. if it still one shots then it might need to be dialed down.

JavelinJoeMar 25, 20171 votes

why max attack speed? she only can use her passive bonus damage 1 time after an ability hits an enemy. She gains 1 point of bonus damage for each enemy hit by one of her abilities i think.

BLACK REALM GODMar 25, 20171 votes

then run max cooldowns? whatever you have to do to make it stack quicker without cheating.

SalronMar 25, 20171 votes

I dunno why Riot insists on creating stuff like this Infinite stacking has no place in league

Dominick DestineMar 25, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Face The Win,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jkkJMaQ5,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-03-25T16:46:31.558+0000)

Infinite stacking has no place in league

I like the concept of Thresh and Nasus' infinite stacking.

As long as it is properly balanced, there is nothing wrong with allowing it.

Zane ZephyrMar 25, 20171 votes

I like how you completely missed the part where it was stated that it was a rough draft of an idea for a new passive and isn't anywhere close to going live

JavelinJoeMar 25, 20171 votes

Yeah, we do not need a more mobile Veigar. I like the concept, but please give it a cap or something.

byakugan123Mar 25, 20171 votes

you know that the autoattack thing has a cooldown (1.5 as i saw on surrender@20) and you get one stack for every autoattack. 16027 stacks would require hitting 16027 AUTOATTACKS ON CHAMPIONS. I would be surprised it anyone would get more than 1000 stacks in one game (a VERY unlikely outcome). Also, Liss has a ok to bad early game due to her mana costs and small mana pool.

Dominick DestineMar 25, 20171 votes

50,000 mana? LOL.

Good luck getting that in a 30 minute game.... even a 60 minute game wouldn't yield such dividends. You'd be lucky to get 1/10th of that in bonus mana.