What?
How exactly is black cleaver meant for champs like Fiora? I'm pretty sure people would agree it's broken champions like fiora who are abusing it while champs like Illaoi/Darius/Garen are who the item is truly meant for
Fiora has AD scaling %HP true damage, she's not supposed to be abusing 30% total armor pen to kill tanks
Wînter Fox17 votesI can't believe people are actually upvoting this...and I can't believe I have to explain this.
Alright class, listen up. Fiora is a Skirmisher type of champion. According to Riot's own definition -
Unlike Assassins, Skirmishers aim to SHRED through any nearby enemy that approaches. Because Skirmishers lack high-end burst damage or reliable ways of closing in on high-priority targets, they are instead armed with situationally powerful defensive tools to survive in the fray, along with extreme sustained damage to cut down EVEN THE MOST DURABLE TARGETS.
Futhermore, Fiora is an Attack Damage (AD) champion. She likes building items with AD on them. She also heavily relies on her spells. She wants Q, W, E, and R up as much as possible to get in range, proc her passive, protect herself with W, deal damage with E, and take out key targets with R a.k.a. TO DO ANYTHING. That means she also likes building items with Cooldown Reduction (CDR) on them.
Let's recap:
Now...what item has a good amount of AD, the most CDR on any AD item in the entire game, and also helps her shred even the most durable targets?
HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
50000000000000005 votesDoes she need armor shred to go through tanky opponents, though? Why not just use the passive? And trinity force would give more damage, right? On top of the same CDR and arguably better MS?
YumaS2Astral2 votesAlthough I agree that for Fiora, the armor shred is a bonus instead of being the main reason why she purchases it, Fiora still deals a lot of physical damage, the armor shred is not useless for her at all. (Actually according to champion.gg 72% of her damage is physical) - With The Black Cleaver she can kill tanks even faster, especially useful when against an armor tank like Malphite or Rammus.
Trinity Force only really gives more damage against squishy opponents.
Also, The Black Cleaver is cheaper than Trinity Force and gives more AD, which is another plus.
Also, there is something I forgot to mention: Lifesteal is reduced by armor (lifesteal scales with the physical damage done by autos, the less physical damage you deal, the less heal you receive from lifesteal) - The armor shred helps her sustain even more if she buys items like The Bloodthister and Ravenous Hydra.
Wînter Fox1 votesDoes she need armor shred to go through tanky opponents, though? Why not just use the passive?
Yes. In reality her passive comes up at random spots on the enemy champion that a capable human player will try to protect. It also takes a couple seconds to appear after you proc it, so no, Fiora can't just rely on her passive unless her opponent DC'ed.
And trinity force would give more damage, right? On top of the same CDR and arguably better MS?
Trinity force is an option, but way more expensive and has half the AD. She doesn't need the mana (low costs) and AS is less important on her due to her E. It also has 0 armor shred. If you're a 9/0 Fiora and for reasons unknown no one is building any armor, then sure TF is there. This will help clear things up: http://www.probuilds.net/champions/details/Fiora BC is her 2nd most bought item by pros at 74%. TF is 5th at 10.9%.
Narasimha1 votesDoes she need armor shred to go through tanky opponents, though? Why not just use the passive?
Contrary to what you make think, she's not Vayne. She doesn't just get her true damage all the time. It's better to take the more reliable option over the more risky one for an inherently squishy character.
Skias3 votesI can't believe people are actually upvoting this...and I can't believe I have to explain this.
Alright class, listen up. Fiora is a Skirmisher type of champion. According to Riot's own definition -
Futhermore, Fiora is an Attack Damage (AD) champion. She likes building items with AD on them. She also heavily relies on her spells. She wants Q, W, E, and R up as much as possible to get in range, proc her passive, protect herself with W, deal damage with E, and take out key targets with R a.k.a. TO DO ANYTHING. That means she also likes building items with Cooldown Reduction (CDR) on them.
Let's recap:
- Fiora's aim is to shred through any nearby enemy, even the most durable targets
- Fiora likes building AD
- Fiora likes building CDR
Now...what item has a good amount of AD, the most CDR on any AD item in the entire game, and also helps her shred even the most durable targets?
HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
Skirmisher is one the of the champion subsets that Riot struggles with the most.
Ralanr1 votesThough surprisingly they all actually function rather well individually. Except when they don't.
ZT Xperimentor1 votesYet skirmishers have been the most problematic champion class; having the mobility & damage of assassins, durability of bruisers, snowballing power of marksmen, and denial of vulnerability like supports. They don't need more help since their kits are overloaded to begin with.
PPPPPPPPPPPP2709 votesWhy do we want items to be restricted to certain champions because it's not part of their role. Let people build what they want.
Big Lincoln6 votesnew cleaver is a nerf to Illaoi
makes no sense why they said it's meant for fiora though
AirKingNeo1 votesCDR, sticking power, AD and HP.
Perfect fit.
Critmaster Garen4 votes[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jf7E2Tds,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-02-22T23:03:57.835+0000)
new cleaver is a nerf to Illaoi
makes no sense why they said it's meant for fiora though
imo thats a problem with illaois scalings.
why does she scale with bonus ad instead of total ad? and her power curve is still shit. win lane, lose game champion.
SaltyKracka1 votesIts her punishment for being ungankable after 6.
Big Lincoln1 votesshe scales with total except for ult, im pretty sure. it's 120% for every tentacle, not including the bonus from Q passive
it's the fact that her base damage is mediocre but her scaling is completely insane. it's not really any surprise she opts into the most AD she can get while still being durable
YumaS2Astral1 votes[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jf7E2Tds,comment-id=000100010001,timestamp=2017-02-23T04:48:37.510+0000)
she scales with total except for ult, im pretty sure. it's 120% for every tentacle, not including the bonus from Q passive
it's the fact that her base damage is mediocre but her scaling is completely insane. it's not really any surprise she opts into the most AD she can get while still being durable
with those scalings, if she had good base damage she would be overbearing
Big Lincoln1 votesI never said it should change, I would hate the optimal build being one damage item into full tank
that's what scrub champs do
Skias6 votesYeah, I don't get how its intended for a champion with max health% true damage.
chipndip13 votesOn-hit MS boost
AD
HP
Armor tear for non-passive hits
Perfect fit.
YumaS2Astral3 votesOn-hit MS boost
The Black Cleaver also gives that same MS boost when dealing ANY sort of physical damage, instead of just being activated on autos
Skias1 votesOn-hit MS boost
AD
HP
Armor tear for non-passive hits
Perfect fit.
Not for long. With a health based build path and less AD, it's only going to be a worse item for a heavy AD scaling champ like Fiora.
chipndip11 votesStill a good fit regardless...
PermabannedGaren1 votesNot for long. With a health based build path and less AD, it's only going to be a worse item for a heavy AD scaling champ like Fiora.
Fiora pretty much never rushes black cleaver. She rushes ravenous hydra, which is pure offense. Getting a bit more durability when building her second item won't hurt her.
Meep Man5 votesBlack Cleaver is meant for all "Melee, DPS" characters dude. Not so much ranged though.
Ahristocats17 votesNop
it's supposed to be built on durable melees yet before this patch it was built on almost every physical damage dealer no exception
assassins skirmishers juggernauts ranged champs some marksmen
Meep Man4 votesAccording to Riot, you are wrong. They want it to be built on champions like Fiora as a source of armor shred. Denying it is useless. Also, all Melee characters have to be durable these days so I don't get the argument.
50000000000000002 votesI get skirmishers wanting Black Cleaver (it gives some durability, AD, and armor shred, which may not be optimal, but all decent for skirmishers), but Fiora specifically I don't get it. CDR and movement speed, I guess? She has %HP true damage to go through tanky opponents.
TRVLR3 votesBC is literally everything that Fiora wants in an item minus lifesteal.
AD which amps up her damage & healing from from her passive
Movement speed which helps her stick to target when she doesn't proc passive and is not using her ulti
CDR so she can have all of her abilities up more often.
and HP to help her survive when she's dueling, diving in, or getting ganked.
Ralanr3 votesSo everything triforce gives.
Anu3isII1 votesBlack Cleaver is significantly cheaper and even if people consider her true damage the main thing, she still deal 72% damage as Physical Damage (according to champion gg and League of Graphs). So, I would still consider Black Cleaver's shred too good to pass up.
Triforce may be a good buy when you snowball and fight a squishy champion. Against Bruisers/Tanks, Black Cleaver's shred will help you a lot against their Armor Stacking.
With the revert to its stats, it also makes you decently Tanky for those Squishy Lethality users in the Top Lane.
Edit: The links if you want to explore: http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/fiora
TRVLR1 votestriforce falls off late and does not help with the ability to shred tanks PLUS you get half the AD which is her most valued stat. I'd consider attack speed a wasted stat on fiora as resets through abilities and hydra are more than enough to proc your ult, and ON TOP of it all triforce is an extra 633 gold.
The only time i'd find it acceptable to buy a triforce is if the enemy team doesn't have tanks and i'm fed beyond believe.
*edit - I also believe mana to be another wasted stat because she has low costs and its easy to manage with her pool.
An Undead brat2 votesI play Fiora occasionally and I tried both BC and Trinity - if I ever won once when I build Trinity, it would be alot. She just blows up most of the time with it, I consider BC a must to survive.
Ralanr1 votesWhy would Fiora want armor shred?
Pierce The Veal4 votesAm I the only person who remembers Black Cleaver being made as "the ad caster item?"
WolfBV3 votesYou're not alone friend.
PermabannedGaren4 votesWhat?
How exactly is black cleaver meant for champs like Fiora? I'm pretty sure people would agree it's broken champions like fiora who are abusing it while champs like Illaoi/Darius/Garen are who the item is truly meant for
Fiora has AD scaling %HP true damage, she's not supposed to be abusing 30% total armor pen to kill tanks
Your post is either poorly worded or you are very poorly informed. Fiora is meant to be target agnostic, she is meant to kill tanks (and just about everyone). Why shouldn't she build an item that can help her do that?
Anyway, that's not even really why she builds it. She builds it because it's an AD item that gives her 20% CDR, extra mobility, and a bit of health. The changes to it will still keep it a fairly attractive item for her, especially because unlike Riven she doesn't rush it.
Duke of Sloths3 votesShe likes it for the AD and CDR. The only other item to compete with that is Triforce which is very expensive and doesn't give much AD. So yeah, it's meant for Fiora.
Martial Poise3 votesIm pretty positive that black cleaver is the cheapest item for 20% cdr and a phage, which are very core stats for fiora. Having % hp true damage and armor shred is redundant, although it still benefits her when not going for vitals.
edit: typo
AirKingNeo3 votesAbusing
Riot just said Fiora is supposed to build Cleaver. Cleaver is on her recommended items list. Please learn the definition of abuse or don't use the word at all.
EyesOfTheFox2 votesI'm still gonna get it on 
.
LegendmakerGX2 votesI feel like Black clever are for champ that are immobile to little mobility, % damage is a curse if you ask me, Fiora already has good mobility and % dmg so I don't get why they would say this item was made for Fiora other then the Hp it gives which is a ton and the movement speed so she can hit her ult vitals.
SaltyKracka2 votesFiora deals pretty much 100% physical damage when the true damage procs aren't happening.
She wants that armor shred.
Dormidon2 votesJust got killed by 16 lvl Fiora as 18 lvl Darius. During teamfight you can't really run away and deny her ultiamte. I ate like 2400 true dmg. -_-
deadlychuck1 votesBC is meant for anyone who scales with AD (by any means), and wants to have access to more damage, but also needs some defense.
It's just a way too general purpose item for it's potency. It should be far less cost efficient, or have a far more restrictive stat distribution/passives.
Rengar Top Lane1 votesCleaver - melee; LW - marksmen only, balanced
Anu3isII1 votesShe deals approximately 72% Damage as Physical Damage (according to League of Graphs and Champion.gg). She is not abusing 30% Armor Reduction, she needs it in order to deal more damage, alongside the nice chunk of Health, 20% Cooldown Reduction and AD she gets for buying it.
Sure, things like Tryndamere, Master Yi, Shyvanna and many other auto-attacking Skirmishers don't really need CDR when they just Auto-Attack, but Fiora likes CDR more than any Attack Speed/Critical Strike item.