So... %base mana regen

Drunk Rummate·Nov 20, 2014·1 votes·4,444 views

How much is necessary? Is it worth rushing chalice? Are other items better as a core regen item than athenes now? Are sustained damage mages getting totally screwed over? Are mages that can't afford to buy mana regen getting screwed over? Is it still worth taking mana regen seals?

11/21 Did testing last night. Chalice still the only mana regen item that matters. Tear sucks now. Morello is still meh, only build if you need grievous. Late game regen scaling on champs that don't build mana regen is pretty good now. You don't go oom as often on DFG ahri without a chalice, just bring some mana regen seals.

15 Comments

Chaotic ReksNov 20, 20143 votes

Chalice now retores +50% base mana and 1.5% missing mana per second. Safe to say, chalice and its builds got nerfed to hell

Drunk RummateNov 20, 20141 votes

Chalice now retores +50% base mana and 1.5% missing mana per second. Safe to say, chalice and its builds got nerfed to hell

My thoughts exactly. Also blue buff duration is being shortened greatly.

I noticed the morellonomicon item - forbidden idol item 3114 has a cost reduction to 600, retains the CDR and has 60% base regen. Seems like it could be extremely gold efficient as an early laning purchase for farm mages like orianna?

I just worry about late game mana regen especially. Mages were limited in their late game casting even with athenes, assuming they had no blue buff.

TsundayNov 20, 20141 votes

Tear is actually a recommended item on Ori and I'd definitely go tear over idol on Orianna. I might consider idol instead of chalice on my supports, but tear is 100 more than idol atm and it builds out of something most mages can use (aka one of the highest AP items in the game) whereas the only useful item it turns into for mages is the Morellonomicon and on someone like Orianna who expects late game to combo you to death she's not really going to need to stop your healing too much. She is going to knock you up, ignite you, and you'll be dead before the ignite is done. On the other hand idol turns into Crucible, Ardent, and Talisman so it'll be a viable mana option for non-tank supports who often build 1 of those.

Drunk RummateNov 20, 20141 votes

The issue I see is mana sustain. Tear gives you a big mana pool but it only provides 25% base mana regen with the rework. I think you would need to build an athenes or morello to complement a tear unless you want to recall every time your mana is low.

Also remember that seraphs doesn't have cooldown reduction which is a core stat on any ap champion.

TsundayNov 20, 20141 votes

I mean yes and no, for a lot of champions their later game mana regen has been increased it's just their early that sucks. I found though that after I got about 300 on my tear I had enough mana regen to not worry about my mana in extended trades/team fights and I built Seraph's and a Zhoynas, Sorcs and I did have a frost Queen's claim which gives a little CDR/Mana Regen but had I been the midlaner I would have gone DFG and have gotten the same CDR and on someone like Orianna I could have easily gone RoA after my tear of picked up a lich bane (because it works really well with her passive and on top of the extra mana it would give it I'd be getting extra AP for it too.

I will definitely explore with different builds because of the item changes, but ATM I have found that tear was all I needed on Orianna (actuall pre-4.20 I used to switch between chalice/tear on Ori depending on the game).

TsundayNov 20, 20141 votes

I thought it was 1.5% missing per 5 seconds, not one second?

Drunk RummateNov 20, 20141 votes

I thought it was 1.5% missing per 5 seconds, not one second?

Correct http://puu.sh/cYz4O/8f6043dc54.png

Personally I've always used 5 mana regen seals on my AP champions. They helped a ton during the laning phase. Not sure how the changes will affect them in particular but mostly I worry about the mid and lategame when my auto attacks essentially become pointless and I need to use my abilities for all sources of damage, waveclear, etc. An ap mage without mana in the mid-late game may as well be dead in the teamfight.

TsundayNov 20, 20141 votes

Well I thought I wasn't using mana regen seals on my supports and mids (especially because with chalice nerfs I feel like I have no mana) but it turns out that I was already using a full set of mana regen seals personally although they said they weren't going to change runes I believe that they are going to change mana regen runes (as well as hp regen) because I thought they were converting them to the new +% system like everything else.

As for Mid/Late game I think we're going to see an influx of champions building Tear. It's okay to run out of mana early game, a lot of mids/supports do and as long as you are a champ that has spells they can use often enough to grow their tear you'll get a good amount of AP Mid/Late game along with the higher mana pool.

TsundayNov 20, 20141 votes

Well I played Orianna support last night and I actually first backed a Tear and a couple of wards (aka I had enough for a sightstone and didn't get it :C), my Janna had a lot of problems yesterday too. I've always 1st backed Chalice on Janna, Nami, Soraka, and Zilean/Karma (if I can't outright buy a needlessly large) I mean there are plenty of supports I didn't get a chalice first back for, but some of the supports really needed it. Normally I run a mixture of flat MR and MR per lvl on my glyphs, but I think I'm going to have to start running 3/6/9 glyphs of either mana regen or mana regen per level on some of my pages. Before the only page I had mana regen on was my 'Mana ADC' which I mostly used on Cait and Sivir.

Edit: so lol nevermind I was already running Seals of mana regen on my supports :C mana problems OP

I've just been buying a few more blue pots while stacking my tier well enough on some of my supports. I'll have to see. Maybe more mana regen masteries.

LwntNov 20, 20141 votes

They did something in which they gave janna, nami, sona and soraka higher mana regen early game and decreases at a smaller rate compare to other champs. Did those changes not help early game traditional support?

AnomalousChimeraNov 20, 20141 votes

I felt that Janna had a an easier time in lane personally. I don't spam Qs (save for when the enemy approaches) and tend to mostly use the shield then and had no issues yesterday. And I always buy Morellonomicon, which now has +100% base mana regen, so yeah...

TsundayNov 20, 20141 votes

I've played Janna, Orianna, and Cait since the reworked mana so I can't speak for Nami/Sona/Raka yet (although I will definitely be playing 1-2 of them today). The mana regen helps with Janna's early laning phase (1.8/sec now it used to be about 1.38/sec before) but it only helps with her laning phase before my first back when I would get my chalice. lvl 1 tornado costs Janna 90 mana level 1 shield costs 70, and Zephyr costs 40. You want to max E (her shield) first. It ends up as 110 mana going up by 10 mana each level. Early levels if you got hard engaged on by a Leona, Thresh, Blitz, the enemy jungler, you spent 1/3rd of your mana on your tornado 1/3rd of your mana on your shield, maybe some more on the slow. Aka Leona jumps on your carry Q > E Leo backs off, she has basically full mana, you're almost out of mana. There were some champions (Lulu mid and Janna support specifically) that I didn't rush chalice just because of the mana. I build a pretty teamwide tanky Janna. Locket and Crucibles were always a must and then often Ninja Tabi/Merc Treads, some big armor item (normally frozen heart or thornmail), her Ruby Sightstone, and her Talisman. I will have to test new crucible on her (I feel like the boost in Mana Regen might make it a little helpful) but I have a feeling it won't be as good anymore.

But like I said the difference in mana regen for Janna is has a base of 1.8/sec compared to 1.38/sec, which when it comes down to it isn't going to be the 11-8/sec I almost always had with my Chalice, because even late game it's so hard for Janna to keep her mana in a fight.

Stevev45Nov 20, 20141 votes

Here is how mp5 has changed by level. Link

Drunk RummateNov 21, 20141 votes

ok after playing around with mana regen items last night i discovered that chalice is still, by FAR, the best. honestly no reason to build morello unless you really need the grievous wounds.

tear doesn't restore very much mana, and it's really painfully noticeable. you can't spam your abilities if tear is your only mana item unless you buy potions or recall when your mana goes low. hurts champions like jayce and ezreal a lot. but tear + chalice and roa + chalice builds still give a ton of mana regen so no biggie there for champions like Zilean and Anivia.

Rot PandaNov 25, 20141 votes

The thing that really annoys be about the mana regen changes, is that Malzahar only hit 5 mana per 5 from a tear at level 18. I thought they were trying to change mana/health regen to be a stat that scales into late game, not just nerf it into the ground.