Ashe's Passive

Drunk Rummate·Nov 12, 2014·43 votes·5,977 views

It's completely backwards and doesn't synergize with her being an auto attacker, especially considering the nature of her Q. Furthermore, a guaranteed crit is hardly useful once you have IE + shiv and you're critting every 2 shots anyways.

In this thread we suggest and discuss new passives for Ashe. I'll start.

Ice Skating - Auto attacks enhance Ashe's movement, allowing her to pass through minions and ignore slows ~~and roots~~ for 3 seconds. Refreshes on auto attack.

Focus (2.0) - Consecutive auto attacks against a single target gain 5/10/15 armor penetration. Expires after 3 seconds have elapsed or Ashe attacks a different target.

Permafrost - Ashe gains stacks of Permafrost by auto attacking. On her 8th attack the next enemy she attacks is slowed by 10%/15%/20% per rank in ultimate for 4 seconds (stacks additive with Frost Shot). [Alternative, 8th attack is a 2 second root?]

Please feel free to suggest more. If we put a ton of ideas out there maybe Riot will see one that they like.

86 Comments

SookoNov 12, 201424 votes

Snap Freeze

Ashe's basic attacks to enemies afflicted with frost related slows have 20% (maybe different numbers) bonus chance of critically striking, and critical strikes to those enemies deal 10% more dmg.

Frost related slows: Anivia's Q and R Ashe's Q and R Braum's Q and R Lissandra's Q and R Nunu's E and R Sejuani's E and R Trundle's E Rylai's Frozen Mallet

I think this would give her decent synergy with more Freljordian Champions but not making her completely dependant on her team comp, since two of her abilities can also proc her passive. ^^

Drunk RummateNov 12, 20142 votes

I like this one a lot! Thanks for the addition!

SookoNov 12, 20141 votes

^

I like this one a lot! Thanks for the addition!

Everything for Ashe :P Somehow, Ashe players always seem to be the least toxic adcs in my games :)

TulareNov 12, 20146 votes

Well, we're playing Ashe. Humility is a prerequisite.

Hyrum GraffNov 13, 20141 votes

I was talking about the bow!

webhippoNov 13, 20141 votes

RITO please!

SookoNov 13, 20141 votes

RITO please!

RebonackNov 12, 201421 votes

Ashe and Talon should trade passives. They would both be more thematic for them.

Drunk RummateNov 12, 20147 votes

Ashe and Talon should trade passives. They would both be more thematic for them.

Maybe. It would essentially mean that ashe just deals 10% bonus damage if she has mana which may be a bit too much though. As an ADC she already does a lot of damage.

CoolSpot2Nov 12, 20144 votes

Ashe and Talon should trade passives. They would both be more thematic for them.

Maybe. It would essentially mean that ashe just deals 10% bonus damage if she has mana which may be a bit too much though. As an ADC she already does a lot of damage.

Ash does a lot of damage? You mean that girl with 0 AD or Attack speed modifiers . That adc with the lowest DPS of all ADS ?

SerBlaiseNov 12, 20147 votes

she has % AD on her w, which is on a super low cooldown at max rank (and max cd...its like 2 seconds). Given crit and AS she can waste people.

HandheldBrandonNov 13, 20144 votes

she has % AD on her w, which is on a super low cooldown at max rank (and max cd...its like 2 seconds). Given crit and AS she can waste people.

Literally any ADC crit and attack speed they can waste people. Only they can all do it better and with far more mobility and safety. Ashe is literally the bottom of the barrel of adc's at the moment.

SerBlaiseNov 13, 20141 votes

not disagreeing, just saying she does have potential to waste and AD scaling is all.

Solidair3Nov 12, 20144 votes

Ashe and Talon should trade passives. They would both be more thematic for them.

Maybe. It would essentially mean that ashe just deals 10% bonus damage if she has mana which may be a bit too much though. As an ADC she already does a lot of damage.

Ash does a lot of damage? You mean that girl with 0 AD or Attack speed modifiers . That adc with the lowest DPS of all ADS ?

But 10% is a lot of damage. It would almost certainly be too much for her

DoogmiNov 13, 20142 votes

Corki deals an additional 10% true damage per auto. It wouldn't be too much for Ashe :D

RebonackNov 12, 20144 votes

Ashe and Talon should trade passives. They would both be more thematic for them.

Maybe. It would essentially mean that ashe just deals 10% bonus damage if she has mana which may be a bit too much though. As an ADC she already does a lot of damage.

Ten percent bonus damage with her auto-attacks only. A decent chunk of Ashe's damage comes from her W and R burst, which Talon's passive wouldn't amplify. As it stands, Ashe has the lowest damage output of any of the game's Rangers by no small margin. And it's worth pointing out that she would lose the extra burst her present passive affords, that's pretty darn important to take into account.

Drunk RummateNov 12, 20142 votes

Ashe and Talon should trade passives. They would both be more thematic for them.

Maybe. It would essentially mean that ashe just deals 10% bonus damage if she has mana which may be a bit too much though. As an ADC she already does a lot of damage.

Ten percent bonus damage with her auto-attacks only. A decent chunk of Ashe's damage comes from her W and R burst, which Talon's passive wouldn't amplify. As it stands, Ashe has the lowest damage output of any of the game's Rangers by no small margin. And it's worth pointing out that she would lose the extra burst her present passive affords, that's pretty darn important to take into account.

When you say it that way it makes sense. Though you have to consider that she does have CC and she has 600 base range which is more than most ADCs. If you look at a similar ADC - Caitlyn - you'll see her passive activates much less frequently. Though she does have a lot of mobility to compensate, so there's that.

Riot has stated previously that they want to stay away from passives that simply say "you get bonus damage" because they feel it doesn't add anything unique to a champion. That's the main reason I don't like Talon's passive for Ashe.

TaarkiNov 12, 20141 votes

It would make her early game a bit weaker but would make her late game stronger, which is good gameplay.

Avalon BrightNov 13, 20141 votes

Except Ashe's early game is already weak, and it's once she gets built that people don't expect the fact she can outduel just about anyone but Vayne.

NarasimhaNov 12, 20143 votes

Nah, Talon and Shaco should switch passives. Ashe just needs something new, I like the Focus idea though.

MarthritisNov 12, 20143 votes

A free crit for Talon is way too strong. He already 100-0 people in .8 seconds, He doesn't need to do it any faster

DrakexionyxNov 13, 20144 votes

I had two thoughts I'd like to share on Ashe's Passives:

In regards to her actual passive, I like the idea of her being slow resistant (if not immune) to targets she has put a slow on. That annoying jungle Yi with red buff comes running at you? Be doomed no more. That Lulu support is launching a glittlerlance? Be not 'snared' my fair lady Ashe! You are the original master of slows in League.

All joking aside, as Ashe's slow is only 15% at level 1 and scales up to only 35% almost every other champion in the game with a slow has a stronger slow. Sure Ashe can perma-slow a target, but when every support is bringing a stronger CC than that and even Caitlyn's 90 Caliber Net slows for 50%, the fact that Ashe can constantly apply hers is irrelevant. She gets hit by a greater slow, knock up, knock back, snare or stun, and she is out of range by virtue of the fact that she has been slowed more (at the very least). Her perma-slow only becomes really useful in a teamfight where she can then effectively kite enemy front lines but even then she is hugely vulnerable if she gets hit by so much as a stray Mundo Cleaver. This passive would compliment her natural kiting while still preserving her inherent low mobility and reliance on skilled positioning to play.

A viable alternative I read recently is remarkable in it's simplicity but effectively solves all of Ashe's damage scaling issues throughout the game:

Slowing a target with a Frost-based Slow (or her spells/Q only) gives X stacks of Focus. X scales with ranks in Q and/or levels [Paraphrased].

Full credit goes to ProfDrDeath for this idea, and I thought it such an elegant solution I just wanted to reiterate it here. I offered a couple of refining points, such as this passive could only proc on already slowed targets (i.e on someone hit by her volley or the subsequent attack to one that applies her frost shot) and that it can have the buffer of Ashe's crit chance.

Her E passive - because an extra 600 gold in 20 minutes (assuming you're a god at farming) really doesn't help her survive, her utility, or her damage potential - when chances are every other ADC/support combo will bully you around so much in lane that this will do little more than equalize the gold. As Ashe's not the hardest scaling of ADC's, this passive also really doesn't do much for her late game either. So I'd like to propose an alternative that would make Ashe a little more relevant that I have shamelessly borrowed from Jinx, and hopefully in all of your most wonderful and informed opinions, isn't too OP:

Hawkshot (new) Passive Ashe's attack speed increases with ever subsequent attack to a slowed target by: 6/10/14/18/22% stacking up to 3 times, for a maximum of: 18/30/42/54/66% [Stacks do not transfer between targets].

I felt like this change to her E (or something like it) will help supplement her late game some so, while not being a hyper carry (and getting nothing like Jinx's 130% AS boost on 'Pow Pow') it would give Ashe a little more late game relevance, while also not making her able to just melt squishies based upon the limitations she will have in repeatedly auto attacking them to get these stacking Attack Speed bonuses. Also, I think, this kind of bonus allows her to itemize more uniquely, like Muramana and Forzen Mallet again, without being forced into an entirely generic attack speed and crit item build to just be able to hold her own.

Alternatively, or in addition to this passive effect Ashe could also gain a small CRIT DAMAGE increase [Riot is slowly phasing out low % crit chance (less than 20%) items, passives, and I suspect runes as well soon, because of the unpredictable and hard to interact with nature of crit at low % chances with how it is coded - see Morello's comments on crit: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/live-gameplay/hbEj1jWi-can-we-finally-phase-crits-rngesus-out-of-the-game?comment=002f00000000].

BIG GARY BUSEYNov 12, 20143 votes

Here's my Passive for Ashe.

Focus: While Ashe is moving, she gains 4 / 5 / 6 / 7 / 8 Focus stacks per second. At 100 stacks, Ashe will critically strike on her next basic attack. Thereafter, Focus stacks will reset to an amount equal to her critical strike chance.

That's it. She doesn't need to do bonus damage on a slowed enemy (which is a retarded idea) or any kind of steroid. She just needs her passive to work on something else. Please stop trying to shift her into something she's not, thank you.

Sightless66Nov 12, 20141 votes

It kind of just seems like another version of Cait's passive. Every once in a while, you hit for more damage, which you can apply easily because of range. Not sure that having it be based on mobility instead of attacks really changes it enough.

I mean, it's much better than the bonus damage on slowed enemy idea. Much better. I'm just not sure it's really adding much on its own. It would definitely work, but I think there is potential for something a bit more interesting.

VyvuykNov 12, 20143 votes

Maybe her passive should be 'Arrow to the knee - Ashe gains stacks every second and at max stack roots her next auto attack target for 1 second'

ArveanorNov 13, 20141 votes

Only if it has some kinda hidden joke passive when it hits Tryndamere...

rN0fu5nburNov 13, 20143 votes

Ashe needs a complete rework. The only things that should (and probably will) stay if they do ever change Ashe is the ult and the volley. The other 2 spells and the passive are straight garbage. Riot doesn't like permaslows and neither does the community so you can just forget about that happening. Some armor pen and magic damage will probably make it into Ashe's kit if they ever touch that champion.

aldlv13Nov 12, 20142 votes

Ice Skating - Auto attacks enhance Ashe's movement, allowing her to pass through minions and ignore slows and roots for 3 seconds. Refreshes on auto attack.

a joke right? yeah lets just let her completely ignore all non-stun and silence (ohs noes cant turn mah q off) cc for free because why not?

hi im TedNov 12, 20142 votes

Passive (Due to lack of mobility) - Get a 12/14/16% movespeed boost per slowed enemy champion within 800/900/1000 range.

-Yeah but Ted what will happen if there are 5 enemy champs and ashe w them all -Idk and idc. End of discussion.

Drunk RummateNov 12, 20142 votes

Passive (Due to lack of mobility) - Get a 12/14/16% movespeed boost per slowed enemy champion within 800/900/1000 range.

-Yeah but Ted what will happen if there are 5 enemy champs and ashe w them all -Idk and idc. End of discussion.

A very cool idea , but the numbers are definitely too high ;)

One of the things I worry about giving ashe movespeed on slow is that it essentially doubles up on her counter mobility. Anyone with less range than Ashe already relies on gapclosers to hit her, but if your gapcloser is lower range than her autos AND she gets a huge mobility boost from hitting you (while simultaneously slowing you) it makes her nearly impossible to reach. There have to be some counterplay options after all ;)

hi im TedNov 13, 20141 votes

Yeah fck the numbers bro, im just suggesting a general idea for dat passive. ;)

Sivir BoobNov 12, 20142 votes

Arctic Blast - Every AA applies a ice cube stack icon on enemy champions. After 3 stacks, Ashe may detonate Artic Blast using only Volley or her ult to deal bonus magic dmg or apply some sort of Permafrost effect. Put a CD on Arctic Blast like udyr's stun or something.

or u know just leave her passive alone and make her volleys crit. :]

WeihGuyNov 12, 20141 votes

Good ideas, but the slow and root immunity is a bit much, maybe have a slow resistance like swiftness boots.

IMO, if they want to make the passive better without having to remake the entire code, I propose: When not auto attacking for X duration, Ashe gains focus. At 100% focus her next auto attack against an enemy CHAMPION or LARGE MONSTER will deal additional physical damage (this is not a critical strike). Maybe have it slow too or something.

Her current passive is just a bad passive since it requires you to stops attacking to farm once she gets the max focus and the guaranteed critical strike is almost useless late game because you already have a high crit chance. If the focus proc only hits important target like champions or large jungle monsters she still has to stay back a bit to gain focus, but it isn't wasted when she needs to last hit. Having extra physical damage instead of crit means that it still useful both early and late since she can use both crit and bonus damage now

cshakesNov 12, 20143 votes

Good ideas, but the slow and root immunity is a bit much, maybe have a slow resistance like swiftness boots.

Random idea inspired by your comment: Passive: Black Ice After every basic attack, Ashe gains X% slow resistance, decaying over Y seconds.

It would reward kiting, which is a necessary skill for an ADC. It'd also make escaping easier, since everything and its stepdaughter has a slow nowadays. You'd still die to Morg bindings, but random slows would no longer be the death of you.

The PaulrusNov 12, 20141 votes

I've got an idea for an interesting one that gives her a zephyr-like reduction of CC against slowed enemies.

Ice in Her Veins- Ashe gains a % reduction of the duration of CC's from all slowed enemies equal to the %age of their slow (think tenacity bonus against slowed enemies).

(Ashe's Q slows for reference are 15/20/25/30/35% and lasts 2 seconds)

What this does:

Further integrates her slow into her kit (increase mana expenditure, but with a worthwhile cost)
Gives Ashe a much needed escape buff
Adds a new dynamic for support champions with slows
Encourages meaningful choices with procing her slow (Do I AA and proc the Q on the support who can CC me or do I focus the adc or do I use the mana for the W and try to get both?)

Stereo MimeNov 12, 20141 votes

Passive: Ashe's basic attacks deal additional magic damage against targets that are slowed/stunned. The bonus damage is based on Ashe's total attack damage, and the severity of the slow, up to a cap of 50% slow. Attacks against stunned targets apply the maximum bonus damage. (Bonus damage = 0.6AD[slow amount], e.g. if Ashe has 200AD, and the enemy is suffering from a 30% slow, her basic attacks would deal an additional 40 magic damage as an on-hit effect.)

Could alternatively do increased crit chance against slowed targets up to a cap, that would add with items. Or a damage straight damage multiplier, which would apply to spells and on-hit effects to open more build paths.

DinnerForTwoNov 13, 20141 votes

As someone who mains Ashe, the biggest problem with her is her late game strength. Unless she has an exceptional laning phase she quickly falls off the face of the earth only providing a small slow and a stun with her ult. Her passive is decent early game but it rarely comes into play in the later phases of the game. Her early game is actually quite strong if played right. So all she really needs is a passive change. Something like this:

2 Part Passive ** Part 1: Permafrost Armor** Every application of frost shot gives Ashe a stack of permafrost armor. Each stack adds to a shield (shield amount scales with frost shot). At max stacks if her shield is broken it releases a slowing aura and gives her a short burst of move speed. or At max stacks her shield blocks all movement impairment abilities and when broken, gives her a small burst of move speed.

Part 2: Frostbite At max stacks, frost shot deals a small portion of damage (scales with level of frost shot), either on hit or over time with the slow. or Permafrost Volley At max stacks, Ashe consumes her shield to add bonus damage (scales with level of frost shot) to her Volley (W). Permafrost volley doesn't apply the slow from frost shot.

This two part passive helps with the two main problems of a late game Ashe who doesn't have the best laning phase.

Ashe has no escapes and can be squishy late game. She is easily burst down by anyone who can get their hands on her.
When behind, Ashe brings little to no damage late game and has no ability to come back (like Vayne, Lucian, etc.). By tying the passive to frost shot it ensures that she doesn't have too much power early game by exchanging her W damage for a better slow and protection. In the late game, she can decide between using the stacks for protection or for damage, giving her a more involved play style rather than being on stun and slow duty.

Anyways, tell me what you think.

ProfDrDeathNov 13, 20141 votes

Easy way out:

Slowing a target with a Frost-based Slow gives X stacks of Focus. X scales with ranks in Q and/or levels.

Coupling her guaranteed crit to mana expenditure serves to keep its power in check.

DrakexionyxNov 13, 20142 votes

Easy way out:

Slowing a target with a Frost-based Slow gives X stacks of Focus. X scales with ranks in Q and/or levels.

Coupling her guaranteed crit to mana expenditure serves to keep its power in check.

So long as you also give it the buffer of her existing crit chance as her passive currently does, this would prove to be simple and very effective way to give Ashe relevant damage that would scale well all through the game.

I would only add that this passive could only proc on an already slowed champion or minion by her frost effect (not including the current application of her Q) so she can't just surprise people with crits and also to give the fear factor of being slowed by Ashe a new edge - you better get out of her range because now that you've taken that slow, the next attack coming you know is gonna be a crit!

ProfDrDeathNov 13, 20141 votes

Interesting idea about the crit only working on a slowed target. I like it - although it kinda removes the level 1 cheese crit...

DrakexionyxNov 14, 20141 votes

Kind of the point, because it scales more relevantly throughout the game, you don;t need to cheese at lvl 1 (although you still could if you started q).

SynergyGarenNANov 13, 20141 votes

I based my idea heavily on braums passive, since both want to aa as much as possible, and Both are frost based

Concussive Shots On-Target Cooldown: 9 / 8 / 7 Concussive Shots

Ashe's basic attacks and Volley apply stacks of Concussive Shots for 2 seconds. (2 second limit forcing you to constantly aa the target in order to get stack bonus, it also make it very easy for the target to lose stacks provided they walk away from ashe)

Upon reaching 4 stacks, the target is slowed by 15% for .5 / .75 / 1 seconds and takes 12 + (8 × Ashe's level) physical damage. After being slowed, an enemy cannot be affected by Concussive shots again for a few seconds, during which time ashe gains double crit chance with basic attacks against that target target.

IwfiKe3qjMNov 13, 20141 votes

I maybe don't have the problem with W and R...

but as the other, yes...

the passive was OK but maybe it can give her bonus movement speed per critical attack... maybe 2% (1), 4% (4), 6% (8), 8% (12), 10% (16)... or maybe heal her every time she deal critical attack... maybe 5% (1), 10% (7), 15% (13) max Health... or can be both with half amount of movement speed ... and heal 2% (1), 4% (4), 6% (8), 8% (12), 10% (16) max Health...

the Q give her 10% bonus physical damage (alternative: 2%/4%/6%/8%/10%)

EawafNov 13, 20141 votes

If you get rid of the Q then you might as well delete the champ and release another one. The permaslow is what defines this champion and makes her unique. Her entire kit is built around the Q. You can change/tweak other parts but leave the Q alone plz.

DrakexionyxNov 14, 20141 votes

The thread is about changing her (god awful) Passive... So worry not! We love her Q too.

noteventhatgoodNov 14, 20141 votes

i hate this idea hope it never happens

Drunk RummateNov 14, 20141 votes

i hate this idea hope it never happens

That's interesting. Is there a reason you like her current passive so much and wouldn't want to change it?

noteventhatgoodNov 14, 20141 votes

i hate this idea hope it never happens

That's interesting. Is there a reason you like her current passive so much and wouldn't want to change it?

her passive is supposed to help her in the laning phase and I just didn't like any of your ideas. Im support main and see plenty of ashes take full advantage of her passive and just dump on enemy adcs. Its pretty much useless late game but ashe is rewarded with constant cc. One of your passives that grants a slow is basically just a copy of one of her existing abilities which is why i didnt like it

Drunk RummateNov 15, 20141 votes

i hate this idea hope it never happens

That's interesting. Is there a reason you like her current passive so much and wouldn't want to change it?

her passive is supposed to help her in the laning phase and I just didn't like any of your ideas. Im support main and see plenty of ashes take full advantage of her passive and just dump on enemy adcs. Its pretty much useless late game but ashe is rewarded with constant cc. One of your passives that grants a slow is basically just a copy of one of her existing abilities which is why i didnt like it

Well my ideas weren't supposed to be the only choices here, just suggestions. The reason I dislike Ashe's passive is because outside of the super early laning phase, it falls off incredibly hard to a point where she essentially doesn't have a passive after IE, and especially after IE + Shiv. There isn't another champion in the game with so weak a passive, except maybe Zilean.