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You know the problem with your ranked system? It’s too damn complicated.

HateDaddy··24 votes·10,017 views

You’ve got exceptions galore for different ranks, basically making it easy to acquire plat. There’s no decay in gold/below; you can’t duo with someone who is below plat1 as a diamond player; in gold you get free wins in your next promo series up to g3 if you fail them. Division promos are stupid, you have 3 of those plus a tier promos. Then you get in masters+ and it gets even sillier.

It’s just at a point where I’m like..ok, I understand but it’s just doing too much now. Let just simplify it:

  • Remove LP system and division promos •Keep ranked tier promo series but reduce it to best of 3. This keeps the safety net in place so people won’t have anxiety about dropping out of their tier because of one game.

  • Use ELO again • change the elo scores to multiples of 100 (so numbers like 10, 15, 20, 25, etc) that make sense so people don’t end up with nonsensical elo scores toward the top. Instead of MMR, give people a strength of ELO index. If you’re losing a bunch in a row and your elo is weak, you’ll earn the lower end of the elo points (10, 15, etc) and if you’re doing well, you’ll earn on the high end. • each elo range requires 300 elo to qualify for a new tier, best of 3 series. • with strength if elo, if you win more then you will also lose very little. In fact, I think you should offer some sort of protection game where even if you lose, you’ll not lose elo. You can earn this for reaching certain elo thresholds: So let’s say for every 50 elo you gain, you get a free loss. If you’re below 50 elo you don’t get it. And that’s when you have a week to use it before it expires.

So let’s address pros and cons:

Pros: this makes the climb more transparent. You don’t have to wonder what you’re elo range actually is. Makes it harder for bottom tier players to afk for the season. Makes it harder to climb so that people can’t just grind their way to a rank they don’t deserve by virtue of playing thousands of games a season Simpler system

Cons: climbing is harder System is simpler but less forgiving

Im sure there’s more but I’ll let others chime in.

10 Comments

haaaaaaalp10 votes

The ranked ladder measures where you are in comparison to the rest of the ranked population. There should be no such thing as a “harder” or “easier” ranking system. In every system, 2% of players get into the top 2%, 10% of players get into the top 10%, etc. How “hard” it is to get into a rank is determined by what the cutoffs are set as. If diamond is set to be top .5% of the ladder, that will make getting to diamond harder. If diamond is set to top 8% of the ladder, that will make it easier. The difficulty of the ranked ladder is determined by what % of players is allowed into every rank, not the ranking system.

There is a very large problem with a simple elo ladder that you want because games at the start of the season would be meaningless and only games at the end of the season matter. If you remember the old elo ladder, rankings changed a lot throughout the season. One day, pobelter was topping the ladder at 2200 and a few months later, forellenlord was rounding 3000 elo. If someone plays ranked consistently at a top 2% level for the first 7 months of the season and then can’t play during the last two because they are too busy, they will drop into a bracket far below their skill level simply because he ladder moves and they don’t. The ladder doesn’t become any more or less forgiving, it just simply becomes less accurate. Players playing at the end of the season will have artificially high ranks and players playing at the start will have artificially low ranks.

Kai Guy1 votes

Sorta ish.

Its more of an issue with inflation because MMR/Team Elo systems don't work very well if you aim to make them Zero sum. So you can see folks get pretty high values.... but you can build in a soft cap where the system doesn't care what your exact MMR is it treats you with a base line expectation for the soft cap. A lot of systems use 2600 for this.

You can end up with a hard cap in MMR/Elo but that's only going to show up when the very best player gets something like 800+ MMR above the 2nd best or invert that for worst player. Youd need W value to = WE value so that K multiplies 0.

So a soft cap prevents issues in the very top end or very bottom end of the ladder off inactivity thou mismatches might occur as a result. That being said any one so good they are a full interval higher/lower then the next closest player to their skill. But you cant really give to many shits about this... because it applies to basically only 2 players ever. The single best player and the single worst player, and you don't build your entire MM around those dudes.

The reason Elo works so well, its probability theory with a self correcting adjustment. So a 1400 player, only has that rating because of their wins/losses calculated in relation to the ratings of other players. Rn=Ro+K(W-We). We is made off the probability distribution model used, so you see more dramatic changes on when the system assessed the incorrect result of a match. Which when people develop a consistent trend of playing in their current MMR helps move them to a proper range faster.

That's one issue with protecting Elo losses like hate has suggested. It needs to always change to reflect the probabilities of wins expectations to better match the games results.

Now Elo is arbitrary numbers. In the OG system Arpad made, class intervals are 200 Elo points. Its arbitrary. you can make it 300 like hate wanted and have the K factor be multiples of 100 like 10,25,50, etc.

Anyhow as we are talking about improving MM. Here is a thread I invite you, And Hatedaddy to check. Participate if you want, If I fked up anything please call me out.

Kaisha6 votes

You make a huge assumption... that riot gives a sht.

Unstoppable Monk2 votes

How about we make it more complicated instead and have two elos for the same ladder where one is your elo with garbage teammates and having complete provisional level 20 trash will never effect your ranking. because these level 40 call of duty ignorant players who don't learn league in our -MOBA- games are ruining ranked in mass due to rito's dumbass design funneling from the progression of just unlocking it as soon as it can be played.

Kai Guy1 votes

An easier fix is to have provisional games not impact teammates as highly as the player in provisional (which most systems already do). And to track players who experienced a provisional player to alternate Provisionals each time they intersect by team. Bit harder... but if your willing to make a mismatch between teams for some 10-20 MMR should be viable... unless duoing is involved.

Unstoppable Monk1 votes

Why not both?

Kai Guy1 votes

Current population needs to support the ability to run independent ques. You need 10 games for Provisionals and 10 players and would have to have the ability to MM this every moment of all hours of the day the games que is running every day of the year.

Assuming you DO have the population to support this? The very act does not generate accurate MMR expectations for any players probability to win?Running a independent que from your average player base for all new accounts does not generate accurate data on accounts vs players... so you basically run provisional games a second time when they make it out and into your Main Ranked Que.

Hopefully this is satisfactory to explain the issues I can find with the idea. I feel its pretty straight forward logic.

Meteora7072 votes

Remove LP system and division promos •Keep ranked tier promo series but reduce it to best of 3. This keeps the safety net in place so people won’t have anxiety about dropping out of their tier because of one game.

Use ELO again • change the elo scores to multiples of 100 (so numbers like 10, 15, 20, 25, etc) that make sense so people don’t end up with nonsensical elo scores toward the top. Instead of MMR, give people a strength of ELO index. If you’re losing a bunch in a row and your elo is weak, you’ll earn the lower end of the elo points (10, 15, etc) and if you’re doing well, you’ll earn on the high end. • each elo range requires 300 elo to qualify for a new tier, best of 3 series. • with strength if elo, if you win more then you will also lose very little. In fact, I think you should offer some sort of protection game where even if you lose, you’ll not lose elo. You can earn this for reaching certain elo thresholds: So let’s say for every 50 elo you gain, you get a free loss. If you’re below 50 elo you don’t get it. And that’s when you have a week to use it before it expires.

or you know, you could just show us the MMR, make every game fair so you lose or gain the same amount every game and make ranks based off of MMR.

Mid Nidalee1 votes

I posted this on another thread but it didn't get a reply from anybody so I am just gonna post this here since it is relevant to the discussion and no sense in retyping my feelings on it:

As of Season 3, Riot Games decided to revamp the ranked system by changing the ELO, to Tiers. While ELO still exists, we have no idea what Riot has done to the system because ELO is hidden. They have replaced it with tiers that show off your rank gated by promotional series. They say this was to help with ladder anxiety, and to give ranked a new and better look.

My problems do not stem from the tier system, although I would prefer a revert to ELO representation, it is not needed.

There are a few problems I have with the current system, which are: Division IV cannot fall tiers unless your MMR is a whole tier under.

What that means is, a Platinum IV player cannot fall to Gold until their MMR is so low that they are almost playing with Silver players.

This creates a mentality in players, as soon as they hit division IV, to not care. Granted, their MMR will quickly fall out of Platinum, Diamond, or wherever they are.. But that doesn’t stop them from having the negative win mentality in the games while they currently still have okay MMR. This also means a player who really hovers in Low/Mid Plat can retain a Diamond border despite not being a Diamond level player. This is why we see Diamond IV 0 LP players who do not seem to be on the level of Diamond, with massive egos. They are more toxic, not always in chat, but in picks, pings, and in game play.

Another problem with the Ranked System would be the decay system, which was good until maybe around Season 6 when Riot decided to make it harder to decay. It now takes a longer duration which seems to be DOUBLED what it used to be, so you can realistically get boosted to Diamond IV, and play 1 game every 28 days, impossible to lose enough games to get to Plat IV MMR and lose your Diamond border. This is why we evidently get ACTUAL boosted players occasionally in our games around Mid Plat to low Diamond MMR.

I don’t really care for the free Promos win thing, as it doesn’t really affect MMR, but it should only take effect if your MMR is higher than your current rank. A Gold IV MMR player should not get a free promo win to Gold II.

I know MMR is your true ELO but these Divisions are what our rewards are based off of, not MMR. So we should make Divisions more accurate to a player’s MMR, rather than the opposite steps that Riot has taken over the last few years. You should decay in Diamond every 2 weeks of not playing.

Kai Guy1 votes

I would say the easy solution to implement. You don't get a Tier/division until you have achieved the bare minimum # of games for system expectations to properly put you onto a probability curve.

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