If you wanted an AD/Armor item, it would have been better if it was not GA

JavelinJoe·May 14, 2017·93 votes·2,662 views

GA makes killing those priority AD squishy/fighter champs twice as important now. They could always have built it before, but it did not give them anything offensive so many did not. Now it has become an item on 2-3 champions per team. SO by getting a good burst on the adc/AD assassin is meaningless now that they all get GA. Snowball games now are even harder to come back from.

could have been a better AD/Armor item. Even to an extent.

56 Comments

Big LincolnMay 14, 201750 votes

should've been atmas

THE RlVER KlNGMay 14, 201712 votes

TahmKench :)

Big LincolnMay 14, 201716 votes

Darius :)

LordGeovanniMay 14, 201712 votes

Sion Ctrl 3 item 3812 item 3508 item 3046 item 3087 item 3009 atamas

Need Gold 4 TentMay 14, 20171 votes

Oh, you mean old AD Sion?

RainbowIceeMay 14, 20171 votes

item 3748 item 3812 item 3065 item 3006 item 3124 item 3742

Why no this instead for old AD sion ?

Need Gold 4 TentMay 14, 20171 votes

i'd probably replace the rageblade with a zeal item, fixes his 0 mobility and gives more attack speed too.

but old ad sion was pretty much the ad version of ap cho-gath, a damage dealer that just happens to have a shitload of hp so you'd typically find him building as an ADC with atmas last item after he stacks enough hp from his E.

LordGeovanniMay 15, 20171 votes

Yes and no. On old sion i ran DFG item 3157 item 3089 item 3006 item 3153 Atamas Impailer. Burst drain tank with lots of stuns. Sheild actually had volume and did damage along with Q. Stole every blue though from both teams later into the game.

DerfelMay 14, 201734 votes

You guys remember atmas? That item was too broken according to Riot but not this new GA. Oh how far we've fallen down the retard hole.

AnidanMay 14, 20177 votes

To be fair, that was a bit different in that it rewarded you damage for building tanky (especially pre-nerf Atma's which gave 2% HP as AD), not just serving up all of AD, Armor and Crit in one item. GA doesn't really reward you for building tanky because it only revives you based on Base HP.

Atma's problem was more similar to Tahm Kench's ult problem when he was overtuned than it is to GA, because it allowed you to build in such a way that made you very hard to kill while outputting respectable damage regardless.

EnloctMay 14, 20175 votes

item 3748 is fundamentally the same thing. It just feels worse to buy and use.

AnidanMay 14, 20177 votes

Essentially, yeah. But it's narrower in its useful scope, so less champions can abuse it like Atma's could be. Atma's was pretty well broken. GA may also be broken, but if it is then it's not for the same reason as Atma's, and Titanic Hydra is its own beast.

Need Gold 4 TentMay 14, 20171 votes

they did give atma's crit which made it a little clunky to buy on say... Renek. But Warmogs made it worth buying even with the wasted crit

RalanrMay 14, 20172 votes

Benefits auto attacks more than anyone with AD scaling though.

EnloctMay 15, 20171 votes

Yeah I know. Atma's was healthier because AD is an easier stat to control than onhit effects. It is fundamentally the same as buying a BF sword or something. With onhits you get outliers like Kog, Yi, Lucian, Warwick who suddenly get those items nerfed because of their idiotic synergy.

It is worse.

TwitchInMyPantsMay 15, 20171 votes

{quoted}

is fundamentally the same thing. It just feels worse to buy and use.

Honestly I was fine with Atma's and I'm fine with Hydra. I mean its effectively atmas without armor, health can be countered with %dmg so its somewhat fair and it has a longer cd than standard tiamat. Though I think the fact that they backpedal on their logic like this is nuts.

Whut Thuh May 14, 20171 votes

old atmas item 3193 item 1401 Chogath with 40 k health you get 800 ad [zombie-brand-mindblown]

Faceroll TacticsMay 14, 20173 votes

And 60% damage reduction

Tristanl0lMay 15, 20171 votes

implying 320 AD is bad lol

SweedishGunnerMay 14, 201719 votes

I had a game with 8 GA's in it at one point the other day.

8 freaking GA's. Even the mid lane Ekko had one.

If old GA was too appealing for tanks why didn't they they just shuffle a few stats around instead of making it a straight up AD item and a cheap one at that.

ElikainMay 14, 20171 votes

and a cheap one at that.

And it's cheaper from what it was before because besides it's passive and one item slot, all that gold is tied to how much its passive is worth to you. 40 damage and 30 armor is worth 2000 gold so in the end, GA's gold efficiency is 83.33% without its passive. The passive has to be worth at least 400 gold for it to be 100% efficient.

I'd argue that the GA is in the right spot however, its gold efficiency could be a bit lower. Reducing the damage by 5 (from 40-35) reduces the item's gold efficiency to 76.04%. 35 damage and 30 armor would then be worth 1825 gold so your passive would have to be worth 575 gold in order to reach 100% gold efficiency.

Let me present you with a situation: GA's passive is only worth if you make a calculated risk to offer yourself up as an easy target in order to get your team ahead or waste a valuable CD for the enemy team. If you simply die by getting caught and waste the passive only to die again, you basically lost 575 gold for 5 minutes.

Iota ThetaMay 14, 201712 votes

I've seen it built as a second item on some, giving a second life early and almost removing the early weakness to assassins.

Sraeg2013May 14, 20178 votes

It's like Riot forgot why they nerfed GA all those years ago.

Learning from mistakes?

https://i.giphy.com/bOvFrUeeHz2zC.gif

NilokMay 14, 20175 votes

Riot has forgotten a lot of reason why they did things in the past. Removing Atmas was one of them.

Sraeg2013May 14, 20171 votes

At this point it's been so many forgotten mistakes on their part, I started forgetting them due to sheer numbers.

TwitchInMyPantsMay 15, 20172 votes

They've forgotten their own mistakes within the year. Anyone remember how they reworked Katarina to make her less "Press R to win" and her new spammy kit ended up being so broken and hard to balance they needed to nerf all her skills and buff her R later? They backpedal on their decisions and pretend they were right the whole time here and there lol

Sraeg2013May 15, 20172 votes

I think the saddest part about Katarina was that the vocal majority on the Boards defended it as if it was a Holy Grail of changes. Meanwhile I was tapping myself on the forehead. Yes, it gives the Katarina player more options beyond being a "R bot", but her enemies have less agency over the lane than they used to.

Which is also pretty sad, because that was one of two main reasons she was touched in the first place.

RocketRelmMay 14, 20176 votes

Hey, does this mean Mages get to ask for a better Armor/AP item now? I know a lot of the arguments I heard about why Zhoynas had to be so lowballed in stats, and be the only option, was that there wasn't any Armor+AD option.

Sun Wu RyuumokuMay 14, 20174 votes

Now it has become an item on 2-3 champions per team.

before u could have 5 GA in a team... just saying.

SO by getting a good burst on the adc/AD assassin is meaningless now that they all get GA.

It was harder to kill them before this patch becose they were tankier.

could have been a better AD/Armor item. Even to an extent.

Lmao.

LordGeovanniMay 14, 20174 votes

Tell tankier to best tanking stat in the game item 1053

Sun Wu RyuumokuMay 14, 20172 votes

still squishier than old GA. But yeah item 3812 is strong atm.

LordGeovanniMay 15, 20171 votes

item 3072 + item 3031

Mira Arya EntheMay 14, 20174 votes

So you mean people aren't getting blown up instantly so fights last longer?

ElikainMay 14, 20171 votes

I mean, i certainly heard that the community wanted less instant and more longer teamfights. GA seems to be serving that purpose for a specific class of champions that lacked direct form of survivability. So it's not a generalist purchase from what i've seen and what the stats are showing.

LordGeovanniMay 15, 20171 votes

For the wrong people tanks still worse than wet paper

Mira Arya EntheMay 15, 20171 votes

No I am pretty sure people wanted everyone to live a little longer.

Hyrum GraffMay 14, 20173 votes

Tbh, I've barely seen GA in my games, so I'm not sure where this impression of "everyone building GA" is coming from.

That said, I should probably go look up the stats because "how much does GA get built?" is pretty easy to answer.

LankPantsMay 14, 20176 votes

http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/items

It's the 8th most built item overall and it has a crazy high winrate when you compare it to the items around it. So I'd say the answer is quite a lot.

GeshultzMay 14, 20173 votes

Then again 1.5% of its pickrate is from buying it last item at a 61% winrate. Which makes sense considering a revive late game is super powerful. The other 5.3% must be from a combination of it being built 5th or 4th item because the team is so ahead that they can afford it to help avoid dying and win the game. It being built 2nd or 3rd item on an assassin/fighter that is snowballing hard. In which case if a champion is snowballing hard it doesn't matter what they build it will increase winrate of the item. (I'm looking at diamond + statistics) . Overall I feel GA right now from stastics is a snowball item similar to a mixture of an item between bloodthirster winrate(GA is really powerful late game with it's passive) and Meja's soulstealer(Useful snowball item to help fix an mistake if you fuck up). Looking at the stastics it seems its highest winrates is top and jungler 2 of the most snowbally roles in the game which makes sense, and its lowest on its users is on botlane ADC (lategame item at 60% pretty normal for other items to be around 60% if they are a powerful late game defensive item) Overall i think its winrate is from snowballing games and late game pickups meaning its just having an illusion it is super powerful. (but is actually as strong as before just a 2--3% higher winrate due to more pickups in snowballing games).

http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/items/jungle/diamond http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/items/adc/diamond http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/items/top/diamond

http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/items/diamond

Toru ItaiMay 14, 20173 votes

they should have brought back Atma's

Arcus DiabolusMay 14, 20173 votes

GA has had mixed results for me. That passive certainly is useful, but the cooldown is so long that I can't help but feel like I'm not getting my gold's worth at any other moment, which I imagine is the desired intent.

If you are building it while behind, they will burn GA and then kill you anyway. If you build it while ahead, it feels redundant and needless.

My suggestion is to reduce HP and Mana on revival back down to 30% like it was originally.

The art needs updating now tho. item 3026 does not give me any idea how this is made from a sword.

SpecterVonBarenMay 14, 20171 votes

The feathers are all small blades.

Arcus DiabolusMay 14, 20171 votes

{quoted}

The feathers are all small blades.

Xayah is an angel confirmed?

BarbaJhiniMay 14, 20172 votes

Actually it was 30% total health now it is base healt which makes it better for squishy targets but it should be worse for tanks with 3k bonus hp as those do not count when revived. (not sure if the meaning is clear)

Magical ZoeMay 15, 20173 votes

Killing the champions with GA has always been important...

LordGeovanniMay 15, 20171 votes

Avoiding fights with them even more so. Allowing them to zone you cause they have two lives while being a ranged drain tank and get free objectives. Aatrox : Will I ever not be the worst at my niche.

Rıots Bad ClientMay 14, 20172 votes

Zilean :c

VoraciousXMay 14, 20172 votes

Yeah, before they were tankier and harder to kill, but now they can kill you before you pop it because they already did enough damage before the buffs to all the other items + GA getting AD.

RainfallMay 14, 20172 votes

at least now i see less fizzs and ekkos with zhonya and ga. the ga change is the best thing riot has done to the game in a while

ObscureParticleMay 17, 20171 votes

Mordekaiser took another hit with this item. Trying to get an ADC ghost now is almost impossible and has made the ult way less viable in team fights. Just another indirect nerf to him.