Mages Lost Their Identity To Assassins

Smitemuffin··2 votes·1,323 views

Mages were always supposed to be high-damage, AoE casters - maybe with some crowd control or utility - but predominantly an AP Carry. But that has been largely untrue for quite some time. There is not a single thing within the entire mage role that cannot be done by at least a couple of assassins except one thing: being universally easy to kill.

The mage role has been almost 100% eclipsed by assassins.

High AoE damage? Ahri Ekko Talon Katarina and Riven

Poke? Nidalee is one of the best (although Zed can also Q 1500 units off a shadow, which out reaches Ziggs and Xerath)

AoE CC? Ekko Diana LeeSin Riven Yasuo XinZhao

Wave Clear? Ahri Ekko Leblanc Talon

Engage? Evelynn LeeSin Vi Yasuo

Zone Control? Ha. The very presence of an assassin is zone control: you get near them, you die. Usually almost instantly.

And none of these are even exhaustive lists. There are 4 positions out of 5 with assassins in them - everything but support.

Most of these champs out-damage mages even in terms of AoE . Assassins are supposedly high-risk/high reward. How are you high risk when you dominate lane just by being an Assassin? How are you high risk with higher base stats, front-loaded damage and (sometimes multiple) escape spells that basically every mage has to burn a 5-minute cooldown just to match?

The scant few that don't dominate lane by definition from the start (Akali and Kassadin ) just have to wait until 6 before they - you guessed it - dominate the lane by definition

"but assassins fall off if they don't get a lead"!

Bullshit. Ahri Akali Diana Ekko Fizz Kassadin MasterYi Riven Yasuo Vayne Zed are the majority of the game's best split pushers. Only dedicated split push champs like Nasus and Jax (who make real sacrifices in other parts of the game) can even come close to contending with them.

"b-b-but assassins take skill to play!"

Wipe that argument off your shoe before you come indoors, please. It reeks. Skill is having good positioning, and assassins - with the lion's share of escape tools - don't get punished for being in the wrong place. Skill is farming well, and assassins can make up an approximately 18 minion deficit (that's almost 4 waves) by going all-in at 6 before you even back to buy items. Skill is being able to manage mana, and how many assassins even really have that? Half? Is it even that many? Here's a paper towel to wipe your argument off. I didn't realize you fed your dog something sticky.

So what role does this leave mages with? Well, they utilize their massive vulnerability to provide the essential service of contributing gold to enemy assassins. Without the humble mage, assassins would be forced to actually farm until late game before heading off to a side lane. Like those peasants who play Jax

So for all you mages players out there who, like me, just have too much pride to play the easy I-Win-Button champs: My hat is off to you. This post is only here so you can read the salty comments by all the assassin mains as they desperately struggle to justify their (Lee) sins. Really. It's not like Riot will address the issue: they only let assassins be out of meta for a few patches before picking off the things keeping them out. And look on the bright side:

At least we're not ADCs. Or worse yet - Jax players. What peasants. :p

48 Comments

Ralanr4 votes

6 assassins you posted are also mages.

Smitemuffin1 votes

That's my point EXACTLY. And they're pretty much every bit as good at being a mage as any dedicated mage while ALSO being an assassin.

Ralanr1 votes

Assassins lack CC most of the time. And range.

Smitemuffin2 votes

Several have CC, actually. Ahri Diana Ekko Elise Fizz Vi Leblanc LeeSin Rengar Riven Shaco Vayne XinZhao Yasuo are all assassins with more than slows.

Several who don't have excellent range (Zed has a 1500-unit poke range with W+Q, that's longer than Lux, Xerath or Ziggs basic spells). Talon even has AoE waveclear combined with a slow

Ralanr1 votes

Vayne is not an assassin. I think Riven and Rengar are just fighters. Not sure on Elise and Vi.

Smitemuffin1 votes

Oh, Riven and Rengar are assassins all the way. They can pop carries like balloons. Look at the AD ratios on Riven especially.

Ralanr1 votes

No. Carries are meant to be popped anyone except tanks.

Gigahappytown3 votes

{quoted}

Several have CC, actually. Ahri Diana Ekko Elise Fizz Vi Leblanc LeeSin Rengar Riven Shaco Vayne XinZhao Yasuo are all assassins with more than slows.

Several who don't have excellent range (Zed has a 1500-unit poke range with W+Q, that's longer than Lux, Xerath or Ziggs basic spells). Talon even has AoE waveclear combined with a slow

xin not a assassin ahri not a assassin yasuo not a assassin lee not a assassin riven not a assassin vayne not a assassin

secondary role doesn't mean shit.

Ralanr2 votes

Really? Huh...I always assumed they meant something.

Gigahappytown2 votes

{quoted}

Really? Huh...I always assumed they meant something.

secondary role means this champ can_ KIND_ of do that but its not made for it nor it is the best way to play said champ.

Ralanr1 votes

Ahh. Perhaps you can tell me the difference between fighter/assassin styles with champions like Pantheon?

Legal Wrights2 votes

You know assassin's are technically bad right now, right? League of Tanks makes it difficult for them to even exist.

AOE CC? Honestly I think of Annie and Cassiopeia more than anything on that front because they're the leading providers of it. Hell, Kennen is an aoe burst mage with absurd stuns.

Zoning? Azir is the KING of zoning...or emperor I guess.

AOE Burst? Bitch I know you ain't callin Annie , Azir Brand Orianna Ziggs and Veigar weak aoe champs.

ModWulf Helhammer1 votes

And Xerath. The only thing that's not AoE for him is his stun

Smitemuffin1 votes

Obviously, you've completely missed the point of the post. I never said ANY of those lacked these things. But every single one of those champs is eclipsed by assassins that share their roles and lack their weaknesses. Even Azir, who is without question still overpowered in comparison to all similar champs.

Btw Azir can really only effectively focus damage on one champ at a time ;D

Legal Wrights1 votes

And clearly you're missing the point of League of Legends. Champions like Talon or Zed are completely useless if they can't get going relatively early, and they're melee. Their payoff is extensive, but the risk is insane. On the other hand Annie has a lower risk factor, but a reward nonetheless.

Most examples you've made all have ONE purpose. Kill a target, get out. Mages are sustained damage.

Smitemuffin1 votes

Malzahar

Ralanr1 votes

Wow, one mage. Clearly he represents all mages because they are homogenized like that.

Smitemuffin1 votes

Galio

Ralanr1 votes

And your point?

Legal Wrights1 votes

Galio is an optional mage. Honestly I play him as a tank but that's just me.

PDE5 Inhibitors2 votes

assassins, not assassin's :)

Kat Head2 votes

Why would anyone reply to a thread this stupid ? Clearly it is trolling guys, stop wasting you time.

10/10 Trolling though m8 !

Smitemuffin1 votes

<3

You're like that one guy in every philosophy class who understands Machiavelli's The Prince is satire

Gigahappytown2 votes

Mages have literally never been bad they aren't bad now and never will be this is the worst assassins have ever been.

they are also the easiest and most forgiving role in the game.

xJLx MCHammer1 votes

There are plenty of mages in the game Viktor Cass Anivia Karthus

The problem stems from how hard it is for them to fit in a team comp because they need some help in terms of fighting against their opponents who tend to be assassins

Smitemuffin1 votes

I never said there weren't alot of them. I said they can't do anything assassins don't do already while covering up all the weaknesses mages possess

Also, Karthus is the poster child of existing just to die. Hell, his kit practically hinges on the fact that he can't protect himself

Sakura Mirage1 votes

Btw just to shit on your whole argument assassins have to be close up to even be able to do anything and are punished if they make 1 small mistake. Take a look at azir xerath viktor they have reliable damage aka by long range and being hard to get to with a good frontline and cc. Assassins have to be close up which is one of the major reasons assassins aren't really too great right now. Don't say "but assassins have more play rate" because frankly assassins are pretty fun to play compared to let's say lulu azir which are better than most assassins.

Smitemuffin1 votes

That's odd. You listed 3 champs that all horrifically lose to the ranged assassin Ahri

Ralanr1 votes

Also a Mage.

Smitemuffin1 votes

EXACTLY. Why pick a mage when you could have a mage/assassin with sustain, CC, waveclear, escapes and true damage?

Ralanr1 votes

Well Ahri is Ahri.

Vicvictorw3 votes

{quoted} Why pick a mage when you could have a mage?

I think we're done having this discussion.

Veraska1 votes

Imagine someone thinks annie is hard

Support Evelynn1 votes

lol you're joking right? Assassins do not outdo mages in what they're supposed to do.

MLDzXnRRR1 votes

Try playing any assasin into Annie...

Smitemuffin1 votes

Actually, Zed is a really easy pick against Annie. Once you hit 6, her harass has to stop because she can't pass her stun. Zed will just all-in and she dies. So either she has to farm only with autos from there and let Zed shove her in, or she blows it and she dies. She can't even 100-0 Zed, his base stats are too high and being melee gives him level-scaling MR

Lord Azır1 votes

I can't believe you put Diana as AOE CC with the likes of Ekko Riven. Diana has a 2 second SLOW to players standing basically right next to her, that's it. That's all of her CC, nothing else.

Smitemuffin1 votes

That's a knockup that Diana has, btw. The slow on moonfall follows an AoE knockup/pull.

Lord Azır1 votes

{quoted}

That's a knockup that Diana has, btw. The slow on moonfall follows an AoE knockup/pull.

Yeah but it has 20+ second CD, doesn't do damage and the slow lasts like 2 seconds. I would hardly call that AoE CC. Not to mention she's not even a assassin, she's a fighter.

supes the lost1 votes

Friendly reminder that Yasuo is also labeled as a fighter, even when he shares far more in common with his assassin brethren.

Smitemuffin2 votes

Yes, and Syndra is labeled as a support

Smitemuffin1 votes

That's a pretty shaky argument considering her passive is 20-250 + 80% AP every 3.5 seconds and she can lay out a burst of 330% AP in under two seconds. That looks like an Assassin to me...

Lord Azır1 votes

{quoted}

That's a pretty shaky argument considering her passive is 20-250 + 80% AP every 3.5 seconds and she can lay out a burst of 330% AP in under two seconds. That looks like an Assassin to me...

The fact that she has a passive that basically says auto attack as much as you can, helps verify her fighter nature. Just like Shyvana is a fighter. If you build her burst you can kill someone in 1 q and 1 auto. Shyvana gets a lower cooldown on her Q every time you auto attack, and then Jax empowered auto every 3rd attack? Does this sound familiar Diana? Jax and Shyvana are assassins now too? Notice something else? Shyvana gets bonus magic resist and armor so does Jax. Diana gets a shield instead. She's literately just the AP version of them but is still a fighter.

Erockandroll1 votes

I think Assassins were given Wave clear, to compensate for the fact that they are no longer allowed to farm of champions. Which would make the Feast or famine archetype, unworkable.

That said, To say Assassins wave clear is as reliable as an APC's is a big Overstatement. Assassins tend to have riskier Wave clear while a lot of mages maintain a good range. Also many Assassins don't have many AoE ults. (except for kass) But even with Kass, Mages tend to have more team fight presence when you have the size of a powerful AoE ult. (like Oriana's ult.)

Personally, the only class of mage that I feel really got shafted is Siege mages like Ziggs and Xeraith. All because Riot decided that their ability to stall out games are not health. ( and haven't found a new niche for them.)

Smitemuffin1 votes

Actually, when you consider many assassins can (and do) buy item 3285 and blow up waves with a ranged spell like Diana and Ekko .

Talon also has incredible clear with just a little AD.

But with that being said, yes, technically Viktor or Ziggs clear well, but they can't actually clear baron-empowered waves on their own either. So there's very little practical difference

Smitemuffin1 votes

Actually, when you consider many assassins can (and do) buy item 3285 and blow up waves with a ranged spell like Diana and Ekko .

Talon also has incredible clear with just a little AD.

But with that being said, yes, technically Viktor or Ziggs clear well, but they can't actually clear baron-empowered waves on their own either. So there's very little practical difference

As for AOE ults, that's also not exactly true. Ekko Evelynn Katarina Riven Talon have loads of AoE in their kits. Kat is the worst offender with only ONE single-target spell

NemeBro1 votes

I lol'd and stopped reading the moment OP suggested that someone like Diana could not only splitpush against a Nasus or Jax, but do so with the advantage.

Good troll thread, you almost had me.

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