I never quite understood what top laners said when they said "range abuses melee"

Succubús GF·Jun 19, 2017·5 votes·560 views

Until I went against jayce. I mean I understood what they meant. I just never acknowledged the amount of bullying ranged champions have in top lane. Like where is the counterplay to that? There's nothing fun about being dived out of turret range. Nothing fun about being 20 cs with their 80. And with Lucian being allowed to top and vayne top being somewhat active it just makes me wonder if riot even cares about ranged power. Better nerf assassins though

18 Comments

Big LincolnJun 19, 20172 votes

it's a problem because of perfect kiting (for ADCs) and no AD penalty for being ranged. the fact that most of them can start level 1 with equal or higher AD than even some AD bruisers is a joke.

when it comes to APs it mostly boils down to how people like Liss/Swain can just spam shit at you while you can't really retaliate because they have such good self-peel that sets them up to hit you some more. especially because most melees have to retreat after going for a trade, giving them time to throw free hits at you.

ExecutionerJun 19, 20171 votes

No AD penalty for ranged? Please listen to that shit for one second. You know how fucking stupid that sound? That would mean anything that is ranged in top lane has to get a AD penalty that includes everyone. Oh but just do it to Jayce, lucian and vayne since they got top lane and picked them 3 champs. That sounds utterly disgusting to me. Range champs in top lane naturally push the lane harder than a melee, unless they try to freeze it long as possible. However you put lucian against a croc any day of the week, get 2 ganks for the croc and that lane gets reversed real fucking quick. Well lucian cant fight a croc now, and he is gonna get the fucking bitch slap till he losses everything

Really the only thing being played top is jayce, and lucian. Vayne? I haven't seen a vayne play top in fucking months. Oh, I'll also add lucian, because I almost never see him top lane either. If any melee in top lane gets even a remote lead on the ranged, it's going to be a slaughter.

Jayce is also about the only ad ranged really played top lane. Well unless you wanna include AD kennen, and teemo. Hell I dont even see either of these two going down the AD route in my games.

Big LincolnJun 19, 20172 votes

Oh but just do it to Jayce, lucian and vayne since they got top

do it to all ranged champions because it's the biggest reason nobody else is allowed bot

If any melee in top lane gets even a remote lead on the ranged, it's going to be a slaughter.

basically any bruiser or carry who gets a lead in top lane, it's snowbally for melees. arguably worse because most have to go into melee to cs

ExecutionerJun 19, 20171 votes

Not allowed bot? I understand why nothing else is played bot. One because they got a support. Even with a yasuo bot lane they may or may not win. Depends on the comp they have and the enemy comp. Did they get a lead or no lead? Ziggs bot was good, however it took a bit of time to ramp up. Also his abilities isn't hard to dodge. Frankly the reason he didn't take off like a adc is because it was hard to cs with him till he got his item 3802 I think that is the reason. However when he got his first item item 3165 . He would start ramping up on bot lane.

However the reason why he isn't good on bot is because of its not a 1v1 its a 2v2. He isn't that good in the other lanes that are long. If he gets ganked in mid, he uses his satchel and boom he is half way back to his his tower, and a E to slow them down. However in top lane or bot lane the lane is much longer. Also depends on what he is playing against bot lane and who is with.

Just because nothing is played besides the support and adc is because well no one besides the marksman and support do good with lower exp than everyone else. Also people like the adc bot lane because they are ranged and not melee. When a jungler comes and you are pushed up the distance of those 600 units means everything in bot lane. We are the lane everyone fucking wants to kill. Our turret shield, and dragon. Bot lane has the most objectives, well why dont they have a melee? Because you need to match it. You dont want to be put into a disadvantage because you are a melee yasuo against a cait or draven. Lane bullies in bot lane will bully you even more so than top lane. It's a 2v2 not a 1v1. Playing a 2v2 is completely different in coming in from a 1v1. The approach to it is much more different than a 1v1. Since bot lane has the jungler coming down for them the most because the bot turret shield, and dragon, they also want to tower dive you. They cant a melee that is at half hp because he wanted that 1 one minion. Also mage supports would rape a melee for even treading closely to those melee minions.

Big LincolnJun 19, 20172 votes

melees can't go bot because the enemy AD starts level 1 with 80 AD from runes and d.blade. they do fine from level 3 onward, sometimes level 2 if it's somebody like Darius or Mord, but it's hard to survive level 1 without being poked or zoned off multiple waves and then being all-in'd from the level advantage. it's different for mages; they have mana problems early on and the AP carries need gold and levels, which puts them at mid lane. ziggs went bot because he could farm from a range where you couldn't attack him and after he got chapter he could just outpush you and wreck your tower

the support is a nuisance but mage supps are squishy and having someone like blitz or bard gives you very high kill pressure on them. tank supports will get ground up by juggernauts and the enchanter lanes can be all-in'd after a certain point. certain champs like juggs and a couple of bruisers are great at 2v2, they have innate sustain and better tank stats after a couple levels

speaking from experience, level 1 is make or break for melees in bot lane

ExecutionerJun 19, 20171 votes

Not the reason, you cant go bot because of the AD. You cant go bot because you will constantly harassed for a melee minion. The reason I would say Darius is a bad pick because of his mana. Also he easy to kite. Even with a blitz a more aggressive support, I would feel at home. The moment that skillshot misses, punishment is coming. However if he doesn't miss that is also fine. I didn't dodge it. Melee bot is more a cheese lane. It's a gamble, that many people do not want to take in ranked. Most of the time it will fail on them. That is also why they dont take that gamble of the cheese lane. The cheese lane gets behind? It's going to be a horrible existence for them.

Though is they do good its good for them. But it's not a lost cause for the marksman and support. All they need to do is farm up, and slowly gather power while trying to get ganks from the jungler. He will come since its bot lane.

Though that is another reason why people dont want to play the melee bot lane. Make or break. They dont want to play a make or break lane. Cait vs jinx? Cait wins, however Jinx can also win the lane. Once she is winning that lane boom freedom from the oppressor. Cait, Draven, and Lucian are the biggest bullies on bot lane. Put a melee against them and they almost always lose, even with a blitz or more aggressive supports.

They dont want to play anything besides ADC because that is all they know as well. Also they dont want to figure out what melees are good against a ranged champion. However that doesn't mean they are bad or anything. They just dont want to do it because if they get behind a ranged as a melee it's going to be even worse than a ADC is behind. Also the ADC is in constantly doing damage in a team fight. Why because he is Ranged. Why are high damaged players always ranged? Besides they have distance from the fight. The highest damage players are never in front of the boss, because they have such low resistances. It's fucking stupid. That ADC could possible get deleted in one hit. Why would they ever do something so stupid?

Unreformed ShacoJun 19, 20171 votes

Ranged toplaners will always passively push.

Jayce AA you > Your minions attack him and not his minions, but his minions keep attacking yours > Yours die faster, pushes the wave > Jayce is pushed, no escapes > easy gank > easy tower.

That's the theory anyway.

General Esdeath Jun 19, 20172 votes

Until you get a braindead jungler who doesn't think you can 2v1 a jayce.

Unreformed ShacoJun 19, 20171 votes

I didn't say it worked, I said that the theory. lol

General Esdeath Jun 19, 20171 votes

REEEEEE

EschetonJun 19, 20172 votes

I believe abilities don't proc minion aggro. And jayce has this neat ability that gives him 3 max attack speed aa's. That count as an ability for minion aggro.

Unreformed ShacoJun 19, 20171 votes

Does it really? That can't be intentional..

EschetonJun 19, 20171 votes

Been a bit since I faced a Jayce, but I recall him avoiding minion aggro while blatantly autoattacking whiloe standing in his wave (close enough to proc aggro).

AhristocatsJun 19, 20171 votes

don't worry Gnar is being buffed

UnboundHadesJun 19, 20171 votes

why is gnar being buffed hes in a good spot imo

P ZJun 19, 20171 votes

Generally speaking ranged does abuse melee in laning phase, the great equalizer in this case are your respective junglers. If your enemy laner is constantly pushed into your tower and harassing your attempts at CS, that is something your jungler should be moving to address as soon as possible because that should basically be a free kill if you've kept yourself in good health and blow your loads accordingly.

If on the other hand, you aren't keeping yourself in good condition there's nothing to be done if you don't know where their jungler is. Your enemy laner and jungler could very well turn it on your jungler and convert into a double kill if you've committed summoners to taking down a target with more health than you.