"Secondary" support

Dominick Destine·Jan 16, 2016·7 votes·1,955 views

I am now forced to secondary mid, because otherwise I will get defaulted to my secondary (Support) 9 times out of 10 instead of my primary (Jungle).

I expected to play support maybe 3 or 4 matches out of 10, that's fair, that's reasonable.... but I get my secondary the OVERWHELMING majority of the time. Basically forcing me NOT to play support. The system is broken, it shouldn't give my secondary 90+% of the time. It makes no sense, it should never, EVER overtake the primary (I.e. never more than an average of 4 out of 10 times)

22 Comments

KevinGreggJan 17, 20163 votes

can't believe no one cares about this. I also would support more if i didnt have to do it every single game..

ThisNameNotUsedMay 27, 20163 votes

HOLY HELL QUEUE TIMES ARE LONGER BECAUSE NO ONE PICKS SUPPORT SECONDARY BECAUSE IF YOU DO YOU ALWAYS GET SUPPORT. THAT IS THE ARGUMENT. IT IS THE TRUTH. EVERYONE STOP FIGHTING LIKE LITTLE KIDS. UPVOTE THIS GUY SO US PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY LIKE TO SECONDARY SUPPORT CAN DO IT AND MAKE QUEUE TIMES SHORTER FOR EVERYONE. IT IS AFFECTING EVERYONE'S GAME. REALIZE THIS. UPVOTE.

maybe introduce a "limit to no more than 50% secondary placement out of 20 games." button so people who don't care aren't affected and people (like me) who do can play support SOME of the time like we want to.

Dominick DestineMay 27, 20161 votes

{quoted}

maybe introduce a "limit to no more than 50% secondary placement out of 20 games." button so people who don't care aren't affected and people (like me) who do can play support SOME of the time like we want to.

If I could be greedy and pick a percentage; I would be very happy with 30% support rate. I don't mind supporting, but I'd like support to be aprox. 1/3rd of my games, not 9/10ths of it if I put in secondary slot.

RogueWillJan 16, 20162 votes

Well here is the thing. The system currently checks for time over primary/secondary. Basically the algorithm looks for an open position on a game, if both primary and secondary are open then he assigns the primary, but if only one is open it assigns it by default. If you were to put one of the most popular roles as secondary then you get your primary all the time, if you put one of the less popular roles as secondary you will get the secondary.

Dominick DestineJan 16, 20164 votes

So what you're saying is I'm completely right and the system is absolutely broken ? Sounds about right.

BluePolarizerJan 17, 20161 votes

yep basically if you want to jungle, you put jungle/mid.

DediguiseJan 16, 20162 votes

And what I am saying is that the Support in general is a less desirable role than the others for a multitude of reasons, most of them unwarranted. In the old system having support your go to back up was a great way to climb because nobody wanted to do it, therefore it was almost always available if you didn't get your primary role.

So as a holdover from previous seasons most players who were willing to cooperate and fill are used to playing support as their back up role. That habit doesn't work in the new system because now you get to get matched up with the two roles you PREFER meaning players are choosing to make their preferred secondary positions not what they feel required to to climb. You can't accuse the system of being broken when ultimately it's the lack of self awareness exhibited by the player base that causes it.

Ultimately we are arguing similar points. But being emotional and blaming the new ranked system for bringing a problem that has existed forever to the forefront is not a productive course of action. Before we can solve this problem we as a community we have to correctly identify the problem. Blaming the new system is the wrong way to go.

Dominick DestineJan 16, 20162 votes

{quoted}

being emotional and blaming the new ranked system

Are you drunk? I'm not sure what part of the mathematical argument I presented translated in your mind as "emotional". Secondary role by definition should be less prevalent than primary role. If I am getting 90+% of my queues as my secondary role, the system is broken. Primary role should always be the role you are queued as the most otherwise you wouldn't be placing it as your primary.

It's not complicated. The system is not functioning properly.

SkinnyFlatWhiteApr 5, 20163 votes

This happens to me too. I put ADC as my primary and support for my secondary. Logically means that I would prefer to play ADC than a support. But hey, only ONCE I get to play my primary role out of 12 matches. fu*ked up system imo.

AsphodelNextJan 16, 20162 votes

"Sweetie, I'm going to the store. What kind of ice cream do you want me to get?" "Chocolate, it's my favorite" "And if they're all out of that?" "Vanilla"

Mother comes back from the store with vanilla ice cream. "I told you I wanted chocolate more! Why do you keep getting me vanilla? This is totally unfair."

Dominick DestineJan 16, 20162 votes

"Would you rather go to work in your car or on your bike?" "Well, I'd rather in my car but going on my bike every now and then would be alright" "Okay, we are now going to take away your car. Enjoy your daily bike rides"

Logic.

AsphodelNextJan 16, 20162 votes

Alright, we'll go with your analogy.

You're in a big city. Each morning, you look out and see that the roads are packed with cars that are barely moving. Everyone wants to drive to work in a car: so many people, that only a few can, and those few still fill up the lanes completely. So, you have to settle for biking to work every day.

If you stubbornly threw away your bike and got in a car, you would never get to work on time. If everyone got into their cars, there would be traffic jams everywhere, and nobody who drives would ever get to work, except for a lucky few who were close to the front when the jams started.

If Riot let you wait for just one role, then you would never get to play if you chose the most popular ones. It's not just that you have to wait a long time. As more and more people join and get put into queue for that role, an infinite line will build up; there just isn't enough of a supply of support players to fill the demand. The only resolutions are either having a lot of mid players giving up after waiting, or kicking everyone out of the queue after twenty million mids are waiting for supports and the matchmaking servers crash.

Dominick DestineJan 16, 20162 votes

{quoted}

So, you have to settle for biking to work every day.

OR, and get ready for this; I could take my car as I wanted to in the first place which was the entire point.

Dominick DestineMay 27, 20162 votes

4 month old thread lol

Done25Nov 7, 20161 votes

Still as valid a complaint as the day it was made.

Dominick DestineNov 8, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Still as valid a complaint as the day it was made.

Yep.

DediguiseJan 16, 20161 votes

Well most low level players don't play support therefore it's a role that needs to be filled. Not sure what you were expecting.

Dominick DestineJan 16, 20163 votes

{quoted}

Well most low level players don't play support

I'm Diamond level.

You're ranked below me, so hmmmmm.

DediguiseJan 16, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jMaVnXoy,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-01-16T03:24:28.372+0000)

I'm Diamond level.

You're ranked below me, so hmmmmm.

Cool Story bro, let me revise that. Most players don't play support. As a diamond player I expect you to understand that and not condemn the system because of the playerbase. So lets do math shall we. 4 out of 5 player don't select support as their 1st or 2nd choice. The 5th player selects support as his Secondary role. Where does he get placed?

Melee FormJan 16, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Cool Story bro, let me revise that. Most players don't play support. As a diamond player I expect you to understand that and not condemn the system because of the playerbase. So lets do math shall we. 4 out of 5 player don't select support as their 1st or 2nd choice. The 5th player selects support as his Secondary role. Where does he get placed?

What he's trying to say is, the system will create an environment where less people select support as their secondary for fear that they will play it every game. Hence the broken system...

AlakalzamJan 16, 20166 votes

{quoted}

Well most low level players don't play support therefore it's a role that needs to be filled. Not sure what you were expecting.

He was expecting primary to mean primary and secondary to mean secondary. The whole system falls apart if the queue doesn't actually put you in matches according to your preferences. I mean, that was Riot's entire selling point for the queue: you get to play where you want to play.

Power CosmicJan 16, 20162 votes

{quoted}

He was expecting primary to mean primary and secondary to mean secondary. The whole system falls apart if the queue doesn't actually put you in matches according to your preferences. I mean, that was Riot's entire selling point for the queue: you get to play where you want to play.

Good explanation hopefully it goes somewhere