When is Riot fixing Zed's range?

Smitemuffin··6 votes·1,193 views

For an assassin with great base stats, a blink, an untargetable, freakishly low cooldowns, single stat scaling, kit-granted perfect farming under turret, and an inexpensive core build composed of >400 gold items, WHY does he also need the longest range poke of any basic spell among mid laners? Case in point:

Ziggs - 1400 a end of final Q bounce Xerath - 1400 at full Q channel Lux - 1450 at the edge of singularity Viktor - 1150 at end of max range line Zed ? 1500. A 900 range Q off a 600 range shadow. And none of his spells even interrupt movement.

There are only TWO that can (almost) compete for range: Varus - 1625 after a two-second channel. But he can't lane against Zed anyway due to high mana costs and the fact that Zed can always ult, hit two spells, one auto and kill him

Velkoz - 1527. But only in the absolute 100% perfect conditions and after a painfully long travel time that's far too much to hit a champ with a base 345 movement speed.

If his range were brought in line with other assassins so he couldn't keep 100% lane dominance while taking zero risks, he'd STILL be unquestionably the absolute best assassin in the game. But he'd also have a small window of counterplay. Just being manaless enables him to start longsword 3 pots, which almost 100% removes any threat of other mids even having enough mana to kill him before he takes his first back to buy item 1036 item 1036 item 1036 and completely take over the lane. No mid can even compete with how dominant and failsafe that build is on such a champion

25 Comments

Mr Broken Wings7 votes

A zed qq thread, come on guys, that was maybe a thing 1 year ago, now its just a bad joke. Btw op didnt say anything about the fact that zed needs to use 2 spells in his kit to get to that range AND use his escapespell and being completly without escape after that " poke combo". Also talon is a better assasin currently.

Smitemuffin1 votes

The fact that Zed has to use two spells in his combo is irrelevant. Azir does and he's one of the strongest mids in the game. So do Orianna & Cassiopeia.

Requiring two spells means nothing when there's no consequences to spamming. He clears the wave & zones with his shadow while doing it. It doesn't even matter that he has to use an escape because his energy fully replenishes from 0 every 20 seconds and his maximum shadow cooldown is only 18. Both are up every single wave.

WolfChases2 votes

Since when is 18 sec just ONLY?

EndlessSorcerer2 votes

When you are comparing ultimate cooldowns.

Smitemuffin1 votes

Considering a Tier 1 mastery, boot upgrade and a >1000g upgrade for his longsword puts his CDR at 30%, making it 12.6 seconds while only needing to farm >2000 gold past his initial items (by about the 9:00 - 10:00 mark)?

Ziggs' Satchel Charge: 26 seconds at 1 rank, 18 a 5. Azir/s W+E combo: 19 seconds at 1 rank, 100 mana. 170 if you need to Q to actually steer the dash by using all 3 spells. Lissandra: 24 seconds at rank 1, 80 mana. And it's at about half the speed.

No other primary role mages even have a dash except Ahri's ultimate. So how is 18 seconds a long time? Of course, you COULD compare it to the flash that every other mage in the game would have to use...

WolfChases1 votes

Barely anyone rushes CDR boots on Zed tho. I have played Zed today and with Merc, Bork, Yoummu and LW i had 14 sec CD on my W and that's a fairly long CD for a late game if we compare it with Fizz's trickster for example which is MUCH better than Zed's W and has lower CD late game.

And do not compare Zed's mobility with Azir's or Ahri's because they are mages and he's an assassin. Ahri has 3 stacks of dashes in her ultimate and all 3 deal damage, Azir's range is obnoxiously high considering that he can safely farm and poke you with it dealing sustained damage with slow on top of that so you will soak minimum 3 soldier AA's.

Don't even compare it with Lissandra's Claw because it deals AOE damage while Zed's W deals none and also, Lissandra has a lot of self peel in her kit. Aoe stun, Zhonya that deals damage, etc.

Idk srsly what are you talking about but your examples are like comparing potatoes with CD ROM.

The Sword Saint3 votes

Sound's like you have 18 seconds to walk up to the wave and trade or zone him off since he has no ability to dodge without his shadow and his q is far far weaker without it as well.

Smitemuffin1 votes

If he has no ability to dodge without his shadow at a base 345 movement speed, then by your reasoning, his poke is impossible to dodge as well

The Sword Saint1 votes

You can't dodge poke without mobility, you can however avoid it by dancing around someone's poke range and making them miss. When I said 'he can't dodge', I should have made it more clear that I meant "if you aim accurately, he doesn't have the option to dash out of the way".

Emperor Antares3 votes

makes no sense as you didnt mention his Q dmg is greatly reduced by minions standing in his way. You're probably bronze as almost no zed player uses his W-Q combo in a straight line lol cuz its easily dodgeable as his missile speed from his W was nerfed hard a long time ago.

Smitemuffin1 votes

You're missing a few key points of how Zed works. See that shadow? Yeah, that duplicates his spells and you can totally just throw it over the minion wave. Then the shuriken doesn't pass through them and reduce his damage.

Also, I'm a div up on you ;D

Emperor Antares1 votes

Throw it over the minion wave? What are you, retarded? :D I suggest you to visit the doctor regularly for some needed mental disorder checkups

WolfChases3 votes

Never.

Zed has to use WQ to extend his range and he's able to do that once every 18 seconds while all those champions you listed above can long range poke in every few seconds. Also, he has to put his only escape ability on a 18 second cooldown in order to poke you from that much distance.

Also his Q deals less damage if it passes through minions before it hit's you.

SpeedWisp2 votes

I think that you are right and now only Q his R dmg should be little lower cause in late game he can do up to 1500 dmg to adc

Smitemuffin1 votes

Truthfully, it's not even his damage that's so problematic. It's the reliable, consistent spam of spells that outrange even the "long range" champions. He's too much of an all-around champ. Since he's also such a strong split pusher, he's never really bad. He's strong early, he's strong mid game and he's strong late. So long as he doesn't significantly screw up, there are no real options to shut him down. He even dictates item builds by his sheer existence on the field. He's an AD assassin that can dumpster just about any non-tank with only 55 bonus AD from his first two full items. I mean, COME ON.

WolfChases3 votes

Zed is good Late game? Not even a challenger Zed main would agree with you on that point.

How can one ultimate reliant champion be strong late game when enemy team has item 3157 item 3026 item 3139

And do not tell me item 3157 counters everyone because ulting someone with a item 3157 or item 3026 or item 3140 in the middle of a teamfight surrounded by Braum Thresh Garen Gnar Nautilus Sion TahmKench Darius means you are just about to die before you land a single spell.

Smitemuffin1 votes

Actually, the reason he's good in the late game is because he's one of the best split pushers. High base speed, 4 forms of escapes with his base two items, high damage, good attack speed, excellent wave clear, never runs out of mana.

Beau Nuggetz2 votes

{quoted}

Actually, the reason he's good in the late game is because he's one of the best split pushers. High base speed, 4 forms of escapes with his base two items, high damage, good attack speed, excellent wave clear, never runs out of mana.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA "mana". wow. As a Zed main, I see Zed pretty balance right now. If you want to beat Zed, then play these champions: Ahri Annie Azir Chogath Darius Ekko Fiora Gnar Heimerdinger Irelia Jax Kayle Lissandra Malphite Mordekaiser Rumble Renekton Swain TahmKench Talon Viktor Vladimir . You can beat Zed easily with these champions, even without item 3157 or item 3140 . But then again, after seeing your match history, no wonder you're complaining why Zed is OP. You're playing with champs that Zed can beat easily!

WolfChases2 votes

And than you realize that there are MUCH MUCH better duelists and splitpushers in this game than Zed will ever be. I will list you just a few of them.

Tryndamere GOD of a SPLITPUSH - Can win his lane on lvl 2 just because of a lucky crit. Irelia GODDES of a SPLITPUSH, can even use her ultimate to clear and barely anyone can 1v1 her. Jax Ever saw a fed splitpushing Jax? You have to send minimum 2 fed players to stop him and hell kill 1 of them. Riven Do I have to say anything about her? Yasuo Only a SHIV proc chunks minions to half HP.

Beau Nuggetz2 votes

{quoted}

I think that you are right and now only Q his R dmg should be little lower cause in late game he can do up to 1500 dmg to adc

item 3139 . There, now Zed is useless against adc.

umbraˉ2 votes

no

Gigahappytown2 votes

um zeds poke early game is a joke standing behind minions will let you take 30 qs and still be above 50% health

Smitemuffin1 votes

Rank 1 Q is 75 + 100% bonus AD. With AD quints/marks (a common set for Zed) the mastery called Martial Mastery (+4 flat AD) and a longsword +3 pots start, you're looking at 29 bonus AD. At level 2 with W and the Warlord mastery, you're looking at a further 10% increase to all bonus AD he ever receives, so 32. That's already 107 damage he can point-blank right in your face from 600 units away (and over the minion wave) without moving or, if he can land his own Q on you, 160.

Considering only two champs with the primary mage role have a base hp that isn't >525 (Kennen and Vlad), that 160 is kind of alot. With the +36 and +3% max hp from defense that mages often take and giving +80 hp (more than any mage gets per level), that's dealing 24.2% of your max hp. The highest armor a mage can get that early is 35 after factoring the 6% mastery reduction Zed always has. That's a 26% reduction. So in the ideal case for Zed's opponent, he's dealing over 18% of their max hp at level 2. Oh, and good luck trading back - Zed actually gains MR per level and always has MR glyphs, so he'll be sitting at 45 MR by level 1 (42.3 with pen mastery maxed) and reducing all magic damage to him by 30%. If you have mag pen, he's got the same % reduction as you. Plus more hp. Plus an extra potion. Plus a lack of mana constraints.

Considering he can Q at 900 range every 6 seconds without any cdr and do it at 1500 every 18, without constraints? That's alot. That's more poke than any champ DESIGNED to harass .

The numbers just don't support you

Gigahappytown1 votes

{quoted}

Rank 1 Q is 75 + 100% bonus AD. With AD quints/marks (a common set for Zed) the mastery called Martial Mastery (+4 flat AD) and a longsword +3 pots start, you're looking at 29 bonus AD. At level 2 with W and the Warlord mastery, you're looking at a further 10% increase to all bonus AD he ever receives, so 32. That's already 107 damage he can point-blank right in your face from 600 units away (and over the minion wave) without moving or, if he can land his own Q on you, 160.

Considering only two champs with the primary mage role have a base hp that isn't >525 (Kennen and Vlad), that 160 is kind of alot. With the +36 and +3% max hp from defense that mages often take and giving +80 hp (more than any mage gets per level), that's dealing 24.2% of your max hp. The highest armor a mage can get that early is 35 after factoring the 6% mastery reduction Zed always has. That's a 26% reduction. So in the ideal case for Zed's opponent, he's dealing over 18% of their max hp at level 2. Oh, and good luck trading back - Zed actually gains MR per level and always has MR glyphs, so he'll be sitting at 45 MR by level 1 (42.3 with pen mastery maxed) and reducing all magic damage to him by 30%. If you have mag pen, he's got the same % reduction as you. Plus more hp. Plus an extra potion. Plus a lack of mana constraints.

Considering he can Q at 900 range every 6 seconds without any cdr and do it at 1500 every 18, without constraints? That's alot. That's more poke than any champ DESIGNED to harass .

The numbers just don't support you

i've never had a problem with zeds poke mostly because i'm not autismo and stand behind minions where his shurikens tickle

and armor pen marks and flat ad quints are the standard not flat ad marks and quints

SwapShadows1 votes

9/11 logic

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