Why does Twisted Fate get countered by everyone with a gap closer?

ExecutorDill··2 votes·1,437 views

It's retarded. At all stages of the game, if you happen to encounter a Talon, Xin Zhao, Yas Diana, Shyvana anyone with a gap closer or way to get unto their target fast you are pretty much dead if you can't kill them when their stunned. I could stun a Xin Zhao at half hp then Q and drop them below 25% hp. Then because they know i'm a TF that just used his It's retarded. At all stages of the game, if you happen to encounter a Talon, Xin Zhao, Yas Diana, Shyvana anyone with a gap closer or way to get unto their target fast you are pretty much dead if you can't kill them when their stunned. I could stun a Xin Zhao at half hp then Q and drop him below 25% hp. Then because he know's i'm a TF that just used his stun, (all his safety and play making potential in one ability) he immediately jumps onto me rather than run away and gets the kill. And I'm here like wtf.

Had I been playing any other Mage: Brand, Malzahar, Ryze, whatever. He would die if i'm at full hp and he attempted to jump me so he'd run as it'd be his best bet. But TF? nooo I die and cry and rage about it in ALLChat because it's stupid.

What good is a targeted stun if you have to play "Pick a Card" in the heat of the fight. Twisted Fate is this squishy binary champ that picking anything but gold card in a skirmish is suicide.

Best thing to do is kite from the backline and try to pick off a stun right? but Q is hard to land from the backline and using W puts you 2 steps infront of your enemy.

Lets not mention the only CC he has also is susceptible to Tenacity and he still has to get a max rank on W to get it to 2 seconds which won't happen until lvl 13 if your maxing your Q like your suppose to. I have no problem with him having to rank up W for the additional stun, it seems balanced to me but it's just another drawback that adds up with the other drawbacks that make Twisted Fate very hit or miss to play. I know champs have strong and weak points, I played Zed in a ranked game and got like 26 kills and was split pushing towers but we lost because we were up against a tanky team and I couldn't do anything on teamfight, not even to their Carry as her escorting support would follow her everywhere like a bodyguard. But that is not as bad a counter as getting countered by anyone who can stay on you.

Potential Buffs -Stats- Range- 550 up from 525 (Optional) Armor- 23 up from 20.542 Mov Spd- 335 up from 330 (Optional)

Gameplay Tweaks

-Abilities- Q: now steals {0 - 20%} movement speed base on enemy champion's proximity to Twisted Fate. The closer they are when hit the higher the movement speed steal. Additional hits do not stack Movement Speed gain but will slow all addition targets struck targets off the percentage of their movement speed.

W: Cooldown increased to 8 seconds but is reduced by 0.5 seconds for every auto attack against an enemy champion.

E: Damage now scales with 4% of enemy's max hp and deals 75% of tha damage to nearby enemy champions.

New E (active) [Because somewhere along the lines of making this I got carried away x3]

Shuffle [Width: 300 units] [Length: 700 units from center to end, 1400 units in total length] Twisted Fate spreads a pathway of cards on the ground for 3.5 seconds reducing damage dealt to himself by (35%) and damage on his allies by half of that value (17.5%) when withing the zone. After the duration 12% of all the damage he took within the zone plus Stacked Deck's damage is dealt as AoE magic damage across the Card pathway. He can recast this ability to apply the damage early.

The Pathway is like Thresh's "Flay" ability it is a ground target AoE ability that is centered around TF. So the Pathway would be 700 units on long on each end of TF (1400 units total length).

23 Comments

Calabok5 votes

You are asking why can't they make him an omnipotent god? Well, you see....

Abyssphere3 votes

Champions are suposed to have unique strengths and weaknesses. Twisted Fate is a strong champion and being weak to certain champions isn't causing him significant problems.

ExecutorDill1 votes

{quoted}

Champions are suposed to have unique strengths and weaknesses. Twisted Fate is a strong champion and being weak to certain champions isn't causing him significant problems.

But he's weak to a very basic mechanic in LoL that is very popular and seen in 9 out of 10 games. Which is gapclosers. The reason I find him weaker to these than other mages is that his CC is not reliable enough. In an average scenario it'll probably take you a second or 2 to select your gold card before using it. Now we all know a few seconds can mean someone's life in league of legends whereas a Lux, Ryze, Malzahar and even Syndra can instantly cast their CC

Abyssphere1 votes

{quoted}

But he's weak to a very basic mechanic in LoL that is very popular and seen in 9 out of 10 games. Which is gapclosers. The reason I find him weaker to these than other mages is that his CC is not reliable enough. In an average scenario it'll probably take you a second or 2 to select your gold card before using it. Now we all know a few seconds can mean someone's life in league of legends whereas a Lux, Ryze, Malzahar and even Syndra can instantly cast their CC

The delay on gold card is the balancing factor for it being a targeted ability. Lux and Syndra get quickly cast CC because they can miss them (especially Lux) and they can be flashed over. Malzahar gets instant hard CC because it's an ult so he has a period of vulnerability and even then if he can't kill the person jumping on him his ult is useless. Ryze gets instant targeted CC because he's a terribly designed champion and if nothing else, a snare is weaker than a stun.

Twisted Fate is also the only one of the champions you listed who gets to teleport away if someone he can't fight is coming to kill them. If he's caught out by a Xin Zhao he is infinitely more likely to escape than any mage with quick CC as long as he has passable ward coverage. So even in terms of surviving melee champs with gapclosers he has one major advantage over other mages - he can disengage before they ever get into range to dash.

Twisted Fate isn't bad. He is actually very very good and that's regardless of the existence of popular champions with gapclosers. If you're struggling him then I'd look to improve with him before you ask for buffs because he isn't going to be made more capable of dealing with melee champions without being made weaker elsewhere.

ExecutorDill1 votes

{quoted}

The delay on gold card is the balancing factor for it being a targeted ability. Lux and Syndra get quickly cast CC because they can miss them (especially Lux) and they can be flashed over. Malzahar gets instant hard CC because it's an ult so he has a period of vulnerability and even then if he can't kill the person jumping on him his ult is useless. Ryze gets instant targeted CC because he's a terribly designed champion and if nothing else, a snare is weaker than a stun.

Twisted Fate is also the only one of the champions you listed who gets to teleport away if someone he can't fight is coming to kill them. If he's caught out by a Xin Zhao he is infinitely more likely to escape than any mage with quick CC as long as he has passable ward coverage. So even in terms of surviving melee champs with gapclosers he has one major advantage over other mages - he can disengage before they ever get into range to dash.

Twisted Fate isn't bad. He is actually very very good and that's regardless of the existence of popular champions with gapclosers. If you're struggling him then I'd look to improve with him before you ask for buffs because he isn't going to be made more capable of dealing with melee champions without being made weaker elsewhere.

His teleport is on too long a cooldown to be wasted as a means to save yourself. I've played TF a lot in the past then I put him down and I'm picking him up again. Now I'm remembering why I placed him down in the first place. I have a mr5 on him. I've also been playing this game since s2 and mages have been a favoured class of mine over the years though I know to play a handful of champs from other roles to a successful level. I get that his stun is targeted, I really do. But he still has to rank it up to get it to 2 seconds (1/1.25/1.5/1.75/2). And he doesn't have early blow up power like Lux when she hits level 6; and she's also a support champion.

AlwaysByMySide3 votes

TF has arguably the best roaming potential of any mid laner, and is highly favored in the highest levels of play because of that. He can easily snowball his team to victory if he is competent.

As long as he can do that, he won't be seeing significant buffs.

ExecutorDill1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Memeglaive Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=j71J8JPL,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-02-22T22:30:48.733+0000)

TF has arguably the best roaming potential of any mid laner, and is highly favored in the highest levels of play because of that. He can easily snowball his team to victory if he is competent.

As long as he can do that, he won't be seeing significant buffs.

I was expecting a comment about his roaming potential. To me it doesn't seem justification enough for him being so vulnerable.

Lady Yamazuki2 votes

Because late game he can 2 shot a carry. With your suggestions he could 2 shot anything. no point anyways he'd become instantly forever banned.

ExecutorDill1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lady Yamazuki,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=j71J8JPL,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-02-22T22:23:17.701+0000)

Because late game he can 2 shot a carry. With your suggestions he could 2 shot anything. no point anyways he'd become instantly forever banned.

If he gets dumpstered he won't be seeing any 2 shotting...

Sir Yamazuki1 votes

{quoted}

If he gets dumpstered he won't be seeing any 2 shotting...

Focus on surviving lane and just help your team with R, it's not difficult to just farm up with him. Take teleport too. He just takes far more practice than some of the other mages to use well.

ExecutorDill1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord Yamazuki,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=j71J8JPL,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2016-02-22T23:06:57.607+0000)

Focus on surviving lane and just help your team with R, it's not difficult to just farm up with him. Take teleport too. He just takes far more practice than some of the other mages to use well.

but it's haaaard ;_;

A little Peepo1 votes

Uhmmm Diana and talon will shut down any immobile mage. Gap closers are hard counters to immobile makes and most immobile squishy champions. It's not just to but almost every other champion in general who is not a tank or bruiser

ExecutorDill1 votes

{quoted}

Uhmmm Diana and talon will shut down any immobile mage. Gap closers are hard counters to immobile makes and most immobile squishy champions. It's not just to but almost every other champion in general who is not a tank or bruiser

Not to Malzahar Ryze or a competent Lux.

Dominick Destine1 votes

{quoted}

It's retarded.

I am not offended, but I am disappointed that whenever I say anything that is not very precisely, very carefully worded to avoid 1984 style authoritarianism, my content gets deleted instantly and I get a warning.

And yet others can get away with it freely.... should not the laws apply evenly to all?

Mecha MaIphite1 votes

{quoted}

Why does Twisted Fate get countered by everyone?

ftfy

Lugg1 votes

TF can dumpster gap closing champs as well if he gold cards them.

ExecutorDill1 votes

{quoted}

TF can dumpster gap closing champs as well if he gold cards them.

But by the time you get the gold card selected they have already gotten in your face and dealt like 35% of your hp in damage if not more. They can also wait after you use you pop your stun to use their gap closer as Twisted Fate is one of the weaker mages at earlier levels and needs to hard carry to be able to duel anyone.

Ozag the Mighty1 votes

You forgot about Akali...

Stars Shaper1 votes

Because you keep using your stun offensively only instead of using it as counter measure.

ExecutorDill1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Stars Shaper,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=j71J8JPL,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2016-02-23T18:03:19.861+0000)

Because you keep using your stun offensively only instead of using it as counter measure.

Very good point sir +1 I have only recently take this idea into account. But alas it's still feels like a hassle to use it for defense as it takes a few seconds to pick card and cast it, at that time a gap closing champ could have already taken 35% (if not more) of your hp as a small trade then return behind minions. Also W is essential for farming in lane so using it as a counter measure to someone who is competent is out of the question.

Stars Shaper1 votes

Since my experience as Xerath I came to the conclusion that the only way to lane against heavy gap closer enemies is to make them either not wanting to by poke (or use them to run away) or to never give up range to begin with so that when they want to engage it will be them to expose, reading such movements makes you able to predict it and prepare yourself. You can also exploit the full pick duration of your W so keep them waiting to know what you actually want to do.

There are also ways to pull 1-2 minions back to you so that you won't have to lose farm. Each cham,pion has different countermeasures and some times you'll have to see if the risk of being jumped is worth the gain.

ExecutorDill1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Stars Shaper,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=j71J8JPL,comment-id=000900000000,timestamp=2016-02-24T08:49:03.436+0000)

Since my experience as Xerath I came to the conclusion that the only way to lane against heavy gap closer enemies is to make them either not wanting to by poke (or use them to run away) or to never give up range to begin with so that when they want to engage it will be them to expose, reading such movements makes you able to predict it and prepare yourself. You can also exploit the full pick duration of your W so keep them waiting to know what you actually want to do.

There are also ways to pull 1-2 minions back to you so that you won't have to lose farm. Each cham,pion has different countermeasures and some times you'll have to see if the risk of being jumped is worth the gain.

Best comment yet +1

Teach me your ways senpai :3 I also bought Xerath because I've had a lot of success with him in normals and I like his sniper mage play style but I too have put him don't because of the same problem as TF

Stars Shaper2 votes

Hehe thanks for the credits.

What I wrote is basically what "positioning" and "timing" means. The more you fight the more you'll know about your enemies CDs and combos, a quick read of the champion's wiki page helps a lot. You'll get some good information about his skills range and CD, you'll learn to counterbuild and recognise patterns. It's alot dependant on you and what you know about the enemy. Early levels, minions hurt a lot so you might want to get the lane somewhat pushed to get an advantage in farm (tower last hits before the enemy) and some safeness. Just see what lets you set the game instead of waiting for your opponent.

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