Please Tell me When You Talk About Changes to Essence Reaver You Mean Revert it

BrightWîngs·Dec 19, 2018·34 votes·13,029 views

Please just revert it to the way it was, it was fine the way it was and it would mean doesn't need to buy shitty ass anymore

29 Comments

Rathar DashingDec 19, 201811 votes

Xayah too

BrightWîngsDec 20, 20181 votes

I completely forgot about her tbh I litterally never see her :(

Rathar DashingDec 20, 20181 votes

I miss playing Xayah/Rakan :(

Pendergast891Dec 19, 20189 votes

They would have to re add cloak. Or they just have it gain crit upon completion. It would be nice to be able to get exactly 100% crit.

Rathar DashingDec 19, 201817 votes

It could just build from a glove and get +10 crit from the final upgrade.

NetkousDec 19, 20184 votes

or give it life steal like in the good old days

saltranDec 20, 20184 votes

{quoted}

or give it life steal like in the good old days

That item was absolutely garbage that no champ ever bought, the first version of ER was terrible.

Pierce The VealDec 20, 20183 votes

{quoted}

That item was absolutely garbage that no champ ever bought, the first version of ER was terrible.

That’s not true, various champions did buy it. Just because it wasn’t the adc’s favorite item didn’t mean it was terrible and never bought.

I used to love taking it on nocturne, for one, as did many others.

Jayce also somewhat liked the item.

There were a few others, and it was often a good substitute for bloodthirster if you wanted good mana sustain as well.

saltranDec 20, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pierce The Veal,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=j55gmnBc,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2018-12-20T06:39:16.353+0000)

That’s not true, various champions did buy it. Just because it wasn’t the adc’s favorite item didn’t mean it was terrible and never bought.

I used to love taking it on nocturne, for one, as did many others.

Jayce also somewhat liked the item.

There were a few others, and it was often a good substitute for bloodthirster if you wanted good mana sustain as well.

It wasn't a core item on any champ and was even more niche than the current ER on some bruisers.

That item was terrible.

Pierce The VealDec 23, 20182 votes

{quoted}

It wasn't a core item on any champ and was even more niche than the current ER on some bruisers.

That item was terrible.

So what defines an item as terrible is whether it’s core on some champions or not?

People need to understand that an item doesn’t need to be built every game for it to have value. In fact, a game full of many situational items instead of a few core items is a far more fun and interesting game.

It was a decent alternative to bloodthirster at the time, though perhaps it could have used a small buff, it ultimately wasn’t that bad in the first place.

saltranDec 23, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pierce The Veal,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=j55gmnBc,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-23T14:18:35.716+0000)

So what defines an item as terrible is whether it’s core on some champions or not?

People need to understand that an item doesn’t need to be built every game for it to have value. In fact, a game full of many situational items instead of a few core items is a far more fun and interesting game.

It was a decent alternative to bloodthirster at the time, though perhaps it could have used a small buff, it ultimately wasn’t that bad in the first place.

If a item isnt even used on their best intended users, which happened to the ER with lifesteal, I will say that its a trash item.

Pierce The VealDec 24, 20181 votes

{quoted}

If a item isnt even used on their best intended users, which happened to the ER with lifesteal, I will say that its a trash item.

I guess the word “niche” doesn’t mean anything to you. Alrighty, let’s just delete all the items in the game and make the items very specifically pander to champions.

The entire reason league has been getting “more damage” is because we went from cookie cutter builds, lots and lots of items that were never 100% what you wanted, but were all pretty good, to items tailored to specific champions and classes of champions.

Essence reaver was one of those niche items, one that wasn’t too different from bloodthirster but offered the alternative to its slightly higher lifesteal: mana sustain. The winrates on champions who took essence reaver weren’t far off from those who took bloodthirster back then, and they were higher if they were mana gated champions. Let’s be fair here, the only reason anybody took the new crit essence reaver and the current essence reaver is because they were broken. One gave you AD, crit, mana restore, and 30, THREE FUCKING ZERO percent cdr. The other turns various champs into urf mode upon activation. The reason that old essence reaver wasn’t that popular was it didn’t allow you to 1-2 shot people at 1-2 items.

DearPearDec 23, 20181 votes

{quoted}

It wasn't a core item on any champ and was even more niche than the current ER on some bruisers.

That item was terrible.

Yet its rework made me stop playing many champions ;)

SalronDec 24, 20181 votes

Literally only Fiora built it frequently If Jayce wanted mana he'd opt for tear, but Jayce hasn't built tear in several years

Pierce The VealDec 24, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Literally only Fiora built it frequently If Jayce wanted mana he'd opt for tear, but Jayce hasn't built tear in several years

It not being bought consistently every game doesn’t mean it didn’t have value. There were matchups and team comps where it being cheaper and restoring mana was a big advantage. Nocturne used to build it pretty often as well, and it was a decent buy for anyone who would opt in for lifesteal.

LordForrestDec 20, 20181 votes

Not true, I bought it occasionally on various champions. Hell I had a Pure caster Lucian build I liked playing that the Old Essence Reaver was core on.

Just because something is niche doesn't mean it was garbage, expect item 3056 , but that has more to do with the state of towers and the game rendering its active mostly pointless.

saltranDec 20, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Not true, I bought it occasionally on various champions. Hell I had a Pure caster Lucian build I liked playing that the Old Essence Reaver was core on.

Just because something is niche doesn't mean it was garbage, expect , but that has more to do with the state of towers and the game rendering its active mostly pointless.

Sorry if it sounds gross but it doesn't matter that you bought the first ER sometimes considering that nobody else did.

I repeat that the item was garbage.

saltranDec 23, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Not true, I bought it occasionally on various champions. Hell I had a Pure caster Lucian build I liked playing that the Old Essence Reaver was core on.

Just because something is niche doesn't mean it was garbage, expect , but that has more to do with the state of towers and the game rendering its active mostly pointless.

Okay, your build doesn't matter, sorry if it sounds gross but the truth is that the fact that you on your silver games used to buy lifesteal ER on Lucian it's irrelevant because when you watched the data the buyrate on ER for Lucian wasn't even a 1% on these days.

LordForrestDec 24, 20181 votes

Really? Rank shame? For your information I am unranked by choice. I don't have the desire or time to dedicate to something as pointless as Ranked when the only reason I play league was to have fun.

I am well aware that the build I used was not FOTM, meta, or even the best, but I didn't care because I had fun with it. That's all that matters. Yes, the original ER was not a popular pick, but it still was a pick for many people on various champions.

I don't understand why you have to be so condescending and negative about it, people are entitled to their opinions and you should respect that.

Personally I think the original marksmen pass giving item 3508 and item 3085 crit was a terrible idea and killed or nerfed many alternative build options for several champions.

ChaosThiefDec 20, 20182 votes

If anything just keep the mana restore away from being crit linked and balance appropriately, so that it isn't only an item for marksmen.

Crit can be used on non-marksmen, too, just not as well, and pretty much every crit item in existence is essentially required to be combo'd with another.

BrightWîngsDec 20, 20181 votes

Well the issue with what happened is that when they removed the crit it became more of a niche bruiser item than a marksmen item only marksmen I've seen buy it is Lucian and even he hardly buys it

If they can manage to make it a good buy for Ashe I'm down with whatever lol

ChaosThiefDec 20, 20181 votes

I'm not saying remove the crit chance; I'm saying make the mana restore on every auto attack, not on crits only.

LordGeovanniDec 20, 20182 votes

by reverting it i hope you mean the healthier and more inclusive 10% lifesteal. 70 ad and 2-8% missing mana one.

NevrankroatonDec 20, 20181 votes

Just make it more interesting and keep it out of crit so you can stay on the "you have to buy a crit item so IE is interesting).

BrightWîngsDec 20, 20181 votes

Well one of the main reasons I want it reverted is because it crit the reason item 3508 was so good on ashe is because it gave crit and that's why item 3153 is such a doo doo first item on her because it doesn't give any crit

NevrankroatonDec 20, 20181 votes

Ashe actually scale super well with BOTRK (Ashe player here), it is just that since her kit synergize naturally with crit, it feel wrong to not have a build that goes along with it.

But basically, the problem is that ADC first item doesn't feel good and that if riot go back on an item with AD and crit, we will get the old problem where it will be mandatory to do it and some ADC will spike too early. But I get what you mean, the problem is that buying stattik/RFC/hurricane/Phantom dancer don't feel good on an ADC as a first item and I feel it is actually part of the problem.

But yeah, ER is way too weird atm. It should at least be better as the CDR/mana item for ADC, and maybe making it scale with crit so it feel good to build crit with it.

BrightWîngsDec 20, 20181 votes

I FULLY aware how hard she scales Bork is not a TERRIBLE first item but its not good either when you buy bork it normally means you just want to scale. like i said it isnt bad it just sucks because she wasnt forced into buying it because they changed both item 3031 and item 3508 the replacement was item 3095 and she cant even use it so even if i get a hude lead i sorta set myself back buying bork because ashe with just bork is pretty shit compared to really any other adc who buys it first Vayne KogMaw Twitch Lucian