Tanks Feel Extremely Useless

BrightWîngs·Jun 17, 2018·43 votes·16,698 views

So before tanks were way too strong and not even bruisers could deal with them but now with all the bruiser buffs and changes they are way TOO good at dealing with tanks. I have ZERO issue with bruisers being able to deal with tanks but they are just too damn good at it where stacking armor just doesn't feel like it does ANYTHING anymore my tank is still getting melted I think this crosses with the issue that everyone is just doing TOO much damage to where tanks items barely help at every stage of the game.

74 Comments

AnateraJun 17, 201828 votes

Welcome to the Riot balancing philosophy. We'll tweak something until it's overpowered as fuck, then we'll nerf it to uselessness. Why? Who the fuck knows.

JRobin31Jun 18, 20184 votes

{quoted}

Welcome to the Riot balancing philosophy. We'll tweak something until it's overpowered as fuck, then we'll nerf it to uselessness. Why? Who the fuck knows.

'Change for the sake of change' something something 'keeps players interested'

#designphilosophy

BarcidJun 18, 20187 votes

"Hi, my name is Starcraft, and I have been the same stock game since for-fucking-ever ago. People still play me competitively and for enjoyment and a lot even still prefer me to my sequel."

Rito: "What the fuck is a starcraft?"

Bob the ToastrJun 19, 20181 votes

That way you buy $kin$ for the champions that are overpowered then have to buy more $kin$ when they shift the meta. More $kin$ = more money for Rito.

RaveolutionJun 19, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Welcome to the Riot balancing philosophy. We'll tweak something until it's overpowered as fuck, then we'll nerf it to uselessness. Why? Who the fuck knows.

This isn't just Riots balancing philosophy, it's their fundamental principal on which they've based everything that they have done since release on in almost every aspect of the game. Thank you for actually stating it and joining the very few that realize this ridiculous fact. More people need to recognize this.

Ayanami3rdJun 17, 201820 votes

Riot is just too incompetent to balance out tanks adequately.

Problem: Tanks deal too much damage Riot's solution: Introduce damage creep and tons of true damage, so tanks pop easily What a competent person would have done: Lower damage of the tanks

So easy, yet they missed the point.

RainXBladeJun 18, 20186 votes

I still don't understand why Riot doesn't like nerfing damage on champs OR a certain class of champs, when nerfing damage from everyone would be the practical solution to make the game more healthy or everyone.

ArdondJun 18, 20187 votes

they avoid nerfing damage on tanks and supports because they fear making those champions boring to play. They have said a few times that they see damage as fun, so in an effort to make people play tanks they increased damage on them.

In my eyes they don't seem to realize that tank and several support mains find joy in living in the middle of a team for 15 seconds or saving the squishes from insane things like Blitz hooks. They don't realize that there are other ways to have fun then big numbers.

Done25Jun 18, 20182 votes

{quoted}

they avoid nerfing damage on tanks and supports because they fear making those champions boring to play. They have said a few times that they see damage as fun, so in an effort to make people play tanks they increased damage on them.

In my eyes they don't seem to realize that tank and several support mains find joy in living in the middle of a team for 15 seconds or saving the squishes from insane things like Blitz hooks. They don't realize that there are other ways to have fun then big numbers.

Um, no. A champion must be able to put out a minimum amount of damage in order to be viable as anything other than a support. Otherwise they become 100% reliant on their team. Take Braum for example. He does so little damage that he simply cannot CS or wave clear at all. He also does barely any damage to objectives like drakes or the baron. Do you want every single tank to be like Braum? Good for literally nothing but CC and being a meat shield?

Maybe you enjoy having zero damage and agency, but a lot of people have fun making tank plays. In the mean time you can OTP with Braum.

MetalGearTeemoJun 18, 20183 votes

its almost like tanks were meant to provide tankiness and CC before riot blanket nerfed CC to get the LC$ big plays going.

Then they had to give tanks loads of % and base damage to make them something other then shitty bruisers.

then they made them better then bruisers and so on.

Done25Jun 18, 20181 votes

{quoted}

its almost like tanks were meant to provide tankiness and CC before riot blanket nerfed CC to get the LC$ big plays going.

Then they had to give tanks loads of % and base damage to make them something other then shitty bruisers.

then they made them better then bruisers and so on.

I seem to recall pre-rework Taric literally three shotting enemy marksmen at level 6 with Radiance-Dazzle-Shatter.

MetalGearTeemoJun 18, 20182 votes

I would call your memory fuzzy then.

RainXBladeJun 19, 20183 votes

There are other ways to have fun then big numbers.

I like the way you think there. I personally think fun lies in how you control your champ, not how much numbers you can pop off from them.

Fckjaxsuo43v3rSep 25, 20181 votes

LOL has become a Hack n'Slash in PVP. Just look at the PVE mode, that's just what it is, hack n'slash. PVP modes are the same with players instead of AI. MOBA? Let me laugh a bit. MOBA LOL is dead sinc the beginning of preseason 8 with shtloads of damage from everywhere. Just go play Diablo 3 and enjoy your 1 billion damage on screen and let us play MOBA LOL again.

Giga BaboonJun 17, 20189 votes

You mean giving bruisers a way to do true damage kills tanks, I can't believe it

BrightWîngsJun 17, 20184 votes

[{quoted}](name=Giga Baboon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=d8ckfQ6E,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-06-17T19:25:34.321+0000)

You mean giving bruisers a way to do true damage kills tanks, I can't believe it

that was not my issue if you read what I said I have no issue with bruisers doing damage to tanks they are just doing way too much to the point building against them doesn't help in the slightest

LordGeovanniJun 18, 20184 votes

Thats because they buffed fighter damage when they dont build damage they build health instead of nerfing adc mage and assassin damage. and then defenses when they dont get burst anymore. Thus allowing bruisers to get more damage in their build at the cost of defensive building.

TheSingularityJun 17, 20184 votes

Also tanks get on average 850 less HP from their full build due to HP item nerfs and armor's effectiveness vs physical dmg is drastically lower than MR is to magic dmg. This crushes tanks with HP scaling abilities and means even full armor tanks get shredded unless they're malphite

KaìjuJun 18, 20183 votes

I played Malph full armor, you still get shredded against some champions. Conq is insane and it should not reset, rather work like Shyv W and extend the duration but not refresh it.

TheSingularityJun 18, 20184 votes

Oh indeed, definitely wish armor was as good as magic resist. Imagine how much assassins and adc's would cry?

KaìjuJun 19, 20181 votes

I play ADC and I would find it more fun so long as I don't get murdered by the tank in one rotation. Chipping away at a tank over time feels like a raid fight. As fun as it may be, playing Lucian should not feel like duel wielding Halo 1 magnums on a Halo 5 boosting spartan.

TheSingularityJun 19, 20181 votes

Will agree, I think currently only a few tanks actually achieve this being Ornn Gragas , both have overtuned base dmg and tank stats. Both need heavy nerfs in the damage department.

I'd say tanks should be able to 2/3 u in a rotation if nothing else interferes (including you). In most scenarios, in that time u life steal, get healed and shielded, so it'd b like 1/2 at best

KaìjuJun 20, 20181 votes

Agreed. The problem comes when Malph R E Q's you and you die instantly even when he's only got 1 AP item.

AbyssmalHydraJun 17, 20186 votes

Tanks pretend to be scared of conqueror...Its actually kinda funny when you realize that Singed Poppy Ornn DrMundo Malphite are all VERY strong picks...People need to stop the circle jerk. God forbid that you sacrifice small amounts of trading power (which you DIDNT.) to become a utility champion from mid-late onwards.

BrightWîngsJun 17, 201811 votes

{quoted}

Tanks pretend to be scared of conqueror...Its actually kinda funny when you realize that are all VERY strong picks...People need to stop the circle jerk. God forbid that you sacrifice small amounts of trading power (which you DIDNT.) to become a utility champion from mid-late onwards.

the problem with that is games almost NEVER go late mid game is about 20 25 min and the game is nearly over or already over by then if the game goes late sure tanks will be pretty good but thats the same thing with scaling marksmen champions they are REALLY good if the game goes late but the issue is games almost never go late

AbyssmalHydraJun 17, 20184 votes

{quoted}

the problem with that is games almost NEVER go late mid game is about 20 25 min and the game is nearly over or already over by then if the game goes late sure tanks will be pretty good but thats the same thing with scaling marksmen champions they are REALLY good if the game goes late but the issue is games almost never go late

Than you realize the tanks i just listed above maybe with the exception of Ornn and mundo, who spike at level 6, are KNOWN to dominate early lanes. These picks all get ridiculous damage for free while itemizing into item 3751 item 3025 item 3076 etc. for even more damage.

TheSingularityJun 17, 20186 votes

Mundo ain't a tank babe, neither is singed. They're as much tanks as Darius or Renekton . http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Champion_classes/Tank SInged is closer to a control mage and mundo is a juggernaut

Ornn is simply busted and needs nerfs But then let's go with the tanks the OP is on about. Amumu Galio Maokai Nautilus Sejuani Shen TahmKench Zac Nunu . Poppy is the only tank going decently anywhere but support with a 50% ish winrate in top, the best thing in jg is Sejuani with a measly 3% play rate and a 47% winrate (low play rates generally mean higher win rates, so those sej stats only make the picture worse).

Tanks are going well bot lane because burst per second has been removed from the 2 item power spike and magic damage, the one that's drastically worse vs tanks than physical is the dominant damage type with item 3124 marksman primarily being played. So tanks can easily mitigate this magic dmg with a locket and build standard support from there

AmocJun 18, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Than you realize the tanks i just listed above maybe with the exception of Ornn and mundo, who spike at level 6, are KNOWN to dominate early lanes. These picks all get ridiculous damage for free while itemizing into etc. for even more damage.

Malphite is strong all game. If he doesn't get shut down early, he's a beast. Pre-6 he's terrible though.

VelasanJun 17, 20186 votes

They nerfed all HP on tank items not that long ago, and then nerfed the amount of HP cinderhulk gives. No big surprise there.

The theory was that tanks should have to build for specific sources of damage, so each item should only be really efficient against that type. So, Randuins for crit users, adaptive helm for magic dot etc. Problem is that often makes them so specific that you need an item per champion the enemy team just to tank them and not die, and that assumes they don't already have some inherent tank busting ability like % health damage or true damage.

You built Randuins against Yasuo? Well too bad because AP kaisa is out of control. You built MR? Well too bad Fio with her Black Cleaver is got a couple extra kills.

On top of that they keep encouraging tanks to build damage. How is a tank supposed to build damage and 3 or more tank items to handle all the different kinds of threats?

Also a lot of the Resolve tree except for Boneplating and Chrysalis are gated by slow build ups and timers. Everyone talks about how Resolve tree is so OP, but in reality almost all the defensive options are in one tree, so where else would you go?

AS I LAY FEEDINGJun 17, 20183 votes

Best picks top is tanks. Just pick Ornn and auto win the laning phase

AtmosphereJun 18, 20183 votes

Because Ornn does max health damage and has the most CC in the game. He's a prime example of an overpowered tank. Saying "stop complaining and play [OP champ xyz]" doesn't fix the issue. It perpetuates more.

PB4UAMEJun 19, 20182 votes

He;s also sitting at a tiny play rate and a 48% winrate. In fact, only Poppy currently has a 50% winrate, and no tanks have an above 50% wr at all, anywhere.

F3EDfromDesIr3Jun 17, 20183 votes

Explains why Bruisers get constantly picked as a counterpick to tanks in competetive and its definitly not stuff like Ornn or Cho who solo beat the shit out of every Bruiser top

Love the boards though xd

ApocalypsicJun 18, 20182 votes

Cho makes me want to kms when played by someone with even half of a functioning brain.

MetalGearTeemoJun 18, 20183 votes

thats because he heals 200+ damage every creep wave just by existing.

and that's impossible to sustain through.

PæanJun 17, 20183 votes

What do you mean? Tryndamere is the strongest tank in the game. What other tank can live for 4 seconds and kill everyone?

BrightWîngsJun 17, 20183 votes

{quoted}

What do you mean? Tryndamere is the strongest tank in the game. What other tank can live for 4 seconds and kill everyone?

lol very true

cPXt3JHpf4Jun 18, 20182 votes

Bruiser buff? what bruiser buff if anything riot nerfed them...wtf you talking about.

AtmosphereJun 18, 20182 votes

Not direct buffs, for the most part. True damage from Conqueror, item synergies (Trinity Force and Sterak's), as well as nerfing tank items. They're indirect buffs to bruisers.

cPXt3JHpf4Jun 18, 20182 votes

They nerfed streaks to nerf trinity users, (was aimed to nerf irelia) but it turns out that shit didn't do much but nerf jax. What items for tanks got nerfed? Whenever I see tanks they just take grasp and slap bruises around early.

Chogath Ornn high base damage, shit ton of cc that ignores merc treads, and % health damage. Both of them can land one ability that can be considered game changing and just win off that.

RalanrJun 18, 20183 votes

They nerfed the health from all tank items back in the tank update in exchange for more resistances. But that exchange feels weaker with the increase in true damage.

cPXt3JHpf4Jun 18, 20182 votes

You have grasp and overgrowth which both scales infinitely. ._.

remakoroJun 18, 20182 votes

Dude are you high or very high? Conqueror was made for bruisers in order to let them fuck tanks in any fashion they like. Cuz they were "struggling" versus them. Maw - straight buff Im pretty sure if you think about it you will remember a lot of things that impacted bruisers positively.

AirKingNeoJun 18, 20181 votes

play malphite, ornn, poppy (q buffs) or cho'gath

use grasp of the undying

BrightWîngsJun 18, 20183 votes

{quoted}

play malphite, ornn, poppy (q buffs) or cho'gath

use grasp of the undying

they are still getting deleted definitely the better of the group but can barely tank for more than 5 seconds before dying simply because tank items are so weak and games don't really go past 25 minutes

AirKingNeoJun 18, 20181 votes

how are tank items weak? Tank killers are in their worst state right now.

Daddy AntsJun 18, 20183 votes

{quoted}

how are tank items weak? Tank killers are in their worst state right now.

Conqueror should never have made it to live servers. Infinity Edge should never have been reworked. Reducing the % crit amp from 50 to say 25/30% would have been fine.

AirKingNeoJun 18, 20182 votes

You'd be right because Conqueror sucks and should have more AD and less true damage, and a longer duration that doesn't refresh with DoTs.

35% crit amp imo