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If a Champion Scales They Need to Not be Strong/Good Early

BrightWîngs··92 votes·18,655 views

I never understood this why are some scaling champs weak as fuck early and some just arnt? few examples

Yasuo Only thing holding this guy back is the boosted people who play him XD Brand Does dumb damage at all stages of the game even if hes feeding Lucian Hes no Vayne late game but for how strong he is early and how much he scales is kinda ridiculous Nasus Never thought Id be annoyed with Nasus but unless you're playing some one like Darius and dont kill him 3 times in five minutes he can still 1v1 you and out sustain you his earlier level are pretty trash but just doesn't feel like it takes very long for him to come online to just all in you and kill you. Please understand I'm not comparing Nasus early game to someone like Renekton or Pantheon Jax Does pretty decent in most match ups can do half your HP in a point and click trade.

Now I'm not saying they are unbeatable just doesn't make sense to me that they are strong early and do well late game I'm not here to rage about anything just dont understand the point of a scaling champ if they are good early game.

Again ZERO hate coming from this post

101 Comments

Slade2515 votes

Jax just got a bunch of nerfs and his favorable matchups are few and far between. Season 8 he was too strong in lane, but it's much harder to play him Top now.

Lucian Is an ADC; he'll always have a strong late game; the justification (though a lame excuse) is that he pales in comparison to other ADC's late. Interested to see how he lands after the Crit rework.

Nasus Has crazy early sustain, and all you can do is kite after 6. The champion is built for 1v1s. There's maybe two champs in the entire game that beat him in a 1v1 late. I do agree he feels terrible to play against.

Brand Is just a broken champion. Has been broken for an entire season.

Overall, I definitely agree with your post concept. There should be justifiable trade-offs if a champion has a strong late game.

FireDrizzle2 votes

"There's maybe two champs in the entire game that beat him in a 1v1 late"

MasterYi Jax Tryndamere Kayn Fiora

Off the top of my head. Has too be very late for fio too win.

Slade252 votes

Lol Nasus one shots Yi. Tryn is a MAYBE. I still think nasus wins. Only Rhaast wins. I don't believe fiora ever does win that; too squishy.

Blackfin974 votes

Jax beats Nasus if he build Bork + another life steal item. Tryndamere beats him hard if he's got his ult up.

Rhaast and Fiora don't do shit against him. Fiora dies in two hits and Rhaast won't kill him even with a full rotation if Nasus decides to build Forzen heart + Tabi. Nasus builds full tank once Triforce's completed.

Wublerdude5 votes

Nasus only 1shots bad yis thank you very much

Marsrolled2 votes

yi shreds a tanky nasus with a full stack rageblade, bork, bloodrazor, tabi and other tanky items like omen etc

robotmaster11 votes

Mmmhhhh Leblanc

ChrisBrownze7 votes

Nasus is very weak early and only comes online early if this weakness isn't punished.

BrightWîngs9 votes

Thats what I said

ChrisBrownze2 votes

{quoted}

Thats what I said

No you said

his earlier level are pretty trash but just doesn't feel like it takes very long for him to come online to just all in you and kill you

to which i responded that this is not true. It does take him a sizeable amount of time to come online if his opponent knows how to play against him. Obviously if youre facing a bot any champ is going to get strong early but if you play against an opponent that punishes your weaknesses you wont unless you're an early game champ.

BrightWîngs6 votes

If his earlier levels are trash then that makes him weak no? But you cant poke him out because of his sustain and the only time you're able to kill him is in those early levels or unless you are someone like Darius you can punish as much as you want but if you're not a champion that can kill him in an all in then he's just gonna heal back up because of his sustain. Only thing you're really doing is just annoying him. And the only real way of dealing with him is counter picking or have the jungler camp the lane.

Doge20202 votes

If you poke him out at lvl 1 and force him away from the wave, he can’t lifesteal to sustain or get stacks. But as a nasus player I compensate for this strat in my runes by getting biscuit to help sustain more. But the strat I mentioned is still very viable to counter nasus even if he has biscuit.

Quinn is my favorite counter to nasus because she can go in for a combo whenever she wants and gets almost no return damage because she is ranged and almost never in melee range of the enemy nasus. And I usually go ignite because I don’t need tp on Quinn, ignite helps with kill pressure and the grevious wounds helps to counter his lifesteal.

If you poke him out, freeze the wave on your side of the lane and zone him away from the wave, you will have a fairly good lane/game because he isn’t getting a lot of stacks and if he walks up to try and CS, you can run him down or have your jungler/mid gank.

BrightWîngs38 votes

my point is that unless you play someone like Darius nasus will more or less just ignore you and out sustain you and then once around level 6 he will just kill you

Sailor Mint4 votes

Nasus is also mediocre lategame.

He's basically Jax, without Leap or Counterstrike.

Doesn't matter how much damage you deal if you have no target access and explode when CC'd.

Rian3 votes

Outscale isn´t restricted to damage only. Take Kassadin for example. his ratios are decent but not the reason he is so strong late game.

I don´t like infinit scaling in lol as well and while Nasus can be very strong there are far more problematic champions in my opinion. Even considering the latest buff.

Crede7772 votes

That's if he isn't duo with a jungler who will camp top and protect him so he can freely farm for the first 15 minutes. At which point you are left entirely relying on your own jungler and the rest of your team to build enough of a lead elsewhere on the map.

DuskDaUmbreon2 votes

Losing lane because you got camped hard? Surprised pikachu

Legit, tho. Camping and Nasus do not mix. Camping against a Nasus does jack shit because you give his jg free reign for not much payoff (since diving Nasus can be incredibly risky due to his sustain, R, and W). Camping for a Nasus doesn't do shit because if his team falls more than a little behind and feeds a champion he doesn't invalidate by virtue of existing (Basically meaning Yasuo and squishy divers), or if they have a decent comp and their ADC and support (specifically if they have a tank support) get fed, he won't be able to split because his team can't hold their own while he does so, and he won't be able to teamfight because he'll be kited to death.

Nasus is beaten or wins lanes by a few ganks, just enough to start a snowball one way or the other. You will lose if you camp him (either as his jg or as the enemy jg), because camping him as an ally is a waste of time, and camping him as an enemy means you let his team run free with the map.

Get his opponent snowballing against him by a kill or two, then get his team shat on. A Nasus without a team is borderline useless, since he'll have nobody to enable him in a teamfight, and his team will be too weak to let him split.

aaaustindestroy12 votes

It's refreshing to see someone that actually, legitimately knows what they're talking about instead of ranting about anything and everything because they can.

Lil Homie busta6 votes

Nasus is not a late game champion tho, unless with late game you mean +100 minutes. He spikes at mid game and proceeds to fall afterwards due to ADCs and some mages scaling harder than him.

Yasuo's case is more about runes and early game buffs breaking his early, allowing him to be actually strong there.

Wild Geese4 votes

Tryndamere Actual highest starting HP. Oh and his spin is as far as a flash, have fun lol.

RisenFromTheAsh4 votes

Veigar is a good scaling champ. There are windows to dive him, he has a single target burst ultimate, and he doesn't do that great early at all except for his E being a very strong set-up for ganks.

PopcornBunni3 votes

Vayne Early especially with Hail of Blades is a simultaneous lane bully and late game carry with her huge %health trades.

Frontline Fury3 votes

Cassiopeia Vladimir Veigar Karthus Zoe Neeko Akali

Late game hypercarries that are strong from the beginning of the game

Sucction3 votes

Vladimir is HORRIBLE early game, and so is Veigar.

Neeko/Akali/Zoe definitely aren't hypercarries, either, as much as I hate them both.

PrinceOfStorms3 votes

If you know how to play Vlad you can really abuse people because your empowered Q has the highest base damage in the game outside of isolated Karthus Q.

Infernape1 votes

Then again it is conditional and relies on Vlad being close to his enemies.

Sucction1 votes

Only at level 1. The base damage scales with levels rather poorly.

Also, this is very conditional and lasts only 3-4 seconds. It's a good zoning tool but nothing more, unless the enemy is seriously bad.

Rathar Dashing1 votes

Akali kind of can be a hyper carry, she has enough mobility and low enough cooldowns to take down a few enemy champions on her own.

Zoe and Neeko though are definitely not, though, I agree there.

Rathar Dashing2 votes

Uhhh Zoe is not evem close to a hyper carry, she's a pick mage. Neeko is a utility mage with weak DPS.

Frontline Fury1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rathar Dashing,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AZ8Jtr6c,comment-id=00140002,timestamp=2019-02-02T12:56:13.081+0000)

Uhhh Zoe is not evem close to a hyper carry, she's a pick mage. Neeko is a utility mage with weak DPS.

She's by far one of the easiest mages in the game. Her damage is so absurdly high while her cooldowns are so low she has near to no counterplay whatsoever, similar to champions such as Cassiopeia. An early game monster that never stops scaling.

Syrile1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Frontline Fury,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AZ8Jtr6c,comment-id=001400020000,timestamp=2019-02-02T14:24:22.574+0000)

She's by far one of the easiest mages in the game. Her damage is so absurdly high while her cooldowns are so low she has near to no counterplay whatsoever, similar to champions such as Cassiopeia. An early game monster that never stops scaling.

Strangely enough, she is not a hyper-carry in the sense that Vayne can 1v5 when played insanely well. Worse though, she can hurl out random attacks over walls until she one-shots a squishy and makes even a garbage team win a 5v4 and steal the game.

Sucction2 votes

Sadly enough, now Vayne can 1v5 while played just decently if she gets remotely ahead against a team without reliable cc :(

Rathar Dashing1 votes

Neeko? I totally agree with you if you're talking about Neeko.

rayzo2 votes

Nasus does feel pretty terrible to play against I agree, but you can just keep the side waves pushed while grouping mid as 5, he doesn't clear waves very fast and he isn't very good at teamfighting unless insanely fed. He has no hard CC, no meaningful AoE damage unless built full AP, and no way of getting to the backline aside from either flashing on them or running at them. Not to mention a single item negates his W (item 3140) .

Blackfin971 votes

Not on a good team, the jungler gets you every time.

This happened to me the other day when I was laning against Jax, my jungler had literally no map knowledge and didn't want to counter gank while my opponent's kept camping me. I ended up winning the game, but when your opponent has a good jungler, Nasus has a field day getting ahead and once past 15 mins has a field day regardless of whether his jungler goes AFK thereafter.

rayzo1 votes

{quoted}

Not on a good team, the jungler gets you every time.

This happened to me the other day when I was laning against Jax, my jungler had literally no map knowledge and didn't want to counter gank while my opponent's kept camping me. I ended up winning the game, but when your opponent has a good jungler, Nasus has a field day getting ahead and once past 15 mins has a field day regardless of whether his jungler goes AFK thereafter.

This issue isn't specific to Nasus unfortunately. Junglers pretty much decide the outcome of toplane regardless of what champion you're playing or how skilled you are as a player.

Blackfin971 votes

There definitely is a difference. I can allow most other champions to get a few free CS but not Nasus.

rayzo1 votes

{quoted}

There definitely is a difference. I can allow most other champions to get a few free CS but not Nasus.

If your jungler is smart, he will camp Nasus and shut him down. If he isn't, well, you're fucked, open mid

Blackfin971 votes

That's literally what I've been saying all this while, and now you come a circle jerk and tell me the exact same thing. I am done with the 200 IQ posts here.

rayzo1 votes

{quoted}

That's literally what I've been saying all this while, and now you come a circle jerk and tell me the exact same thing. I am done with the 200 IQ posts here.

IF junglers are involved with top lane, they get to decide the outcome of top lane. Pretty simple TBH.

If not, Nasus shits on nearly every single laner past 10 minutes, 15 if against a strong lane bully like Renekton. If Nasus is a big problem for you you should either play him, ban him, or pick Tahm. He can fight Nasus at almost all stages of the game due to his passive, q and w. I don't see why Riot buffed his stacking TBH. It was fine before and now he's just 100% pick/ban.

HA I am Shaco HA1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Raymønd Åmantius,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AZ8Jtr6c,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-02-01T18:06:47.931+0000)

Nasus does feel pretty terrible to play against I agree, but you can just keep the side waves pushed while grouping mid as 5, he doesn't clear waves very fast and he isn't very good at teamfighting unless insanely fed. He has no hard CC, no meaningful AoE damage unless built full AP, and no way of getting to the backline aside from either flashing on them or running at them. Not to mention a single item negates his W (item 3140) .

wdym, his W is on a 3 second cooldown. sash is useless against him late game, early game it's not so bad

Wublerdude2 votes

WITHERS: HAHA I have QSS (Uses QSS) Nasus: WITHERS AGAIN: Wellllll crap (Gets 1 shot by Da-cane)

wildfox9T2 votes

######(laughs in the shadows.......shhh,nobody noticed us) Cassiopeia Ryze Kassadin

Rathar Dashing1 votes

Ryze has an awful early game, though.

wildfox9T2 votes

not at all,he's not easy to kill because of his shield and point click CC,after he close item 3070 he's already able to do something,especially when you consider his really low counterplay (stay behind minions and his spells bounce on you,don't do it and he snares you so unless he's stupid his Q is guaranteed) same thing goes for kassadin,point click poke and spammy shield + passive damage reduction,even though he have no mobility pre 6 he's still almost impossible to kill as AP

just for clarify,i'm not saying that they are strong in early but that they are not weak enough for how fast and hard they scale also it's not just "rage",i say that because even when i play those champ i feel the same

about cassio instead she's a ranged yasuo,lane bully that keeps being strong in late (with the difference that you can't stunlock her since she's ranged)

QmegaSquadVeigar2 votes

Nasus isn't that great late game due to the lack of mobility or range. but he's a monster in the mid game.

Rathar Dashing1 votes

He's good in the SUPER late game due to his infinite scaling mechanic, similar to Bard and Veigar.

QmegaSquadVeigar2 votes

Let's be honest games don't go past 50 minutes, there are very, very little games that go that far, I'm talking about around 40 minutes where people get items like merculiar scimitar, Mikael's Crucible etc. That's where champions like Veigar or Nasus suck, due to their unreliability.

Rathar Dashing1 votes

Yeah, I know, super late game doesn't happen anymore, but if it did those champions would be very powerful. Luckily regular late game doesn't really happen either, so those champions can at least enjoy their mid-game strength.

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