Maybe I'm Just Bad but How is This Ok?

BrightWîngs·Dec 31, 2018·74 votes·19,742 views

So its still lane phase against Darius ( I'm not complaining about Darius specifically ) it was around at least level 6 or 7 I miss stepped I got yoinked I should be punished for my miss play but the punishment resulted in me taking close to 930 true damage at level 6 or 7.

400 from ult again I'm fine with this since he did get 5 stacks again my bad but then 300 from Conqueror and an additional 230 from

Look again I'm perfectly fine with Darius I miss played I should be punished but i feel the ability of dishing out close to 1000 true damage in early levels is kinda insane.

Edit: Thank you all for being kind and civilized [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

59 Comments

Bears Dont CareDec 31, 201839 votes

Conqueror is 20% of the damage. So if you too 300 from conqueror, then the physical damage he would have dealt was a base of 1200. Assuming you had 100 armor.

You are suggesting you took 600 physical, 300 conq, 400 from ult, and 230 from ignite for a total of...1630? At level 7? That;s aloooot of damage being taken

Cats Are FoodDec 31, 20189 votes

Pretty accurate, though, if he caught full stacks which means the Darius had time to unload on him completely, especially if he caught him at max Q.

KazekibaDec 31, 201824 votes

People ... forget Darius has the Noxian Might passive so if his Ult was doing true damage, that means Darius is getting 55 or so bonus AD from his passive, + conqueror, + runes.

That's close to 2k gold in AD, and Darius' bleed is dealing partial True damage thanks to Conqueror too. and a LOT of it. It's a bit insane, but a lot of it comes from Darius' kit abusing the rune more than the strength of the rune itself. Granted, Conqueror does give a sliver of bonus AD on top of 20% total armor penetration. Might have made a significant difference if it was JUST the armor penetration.

Cats Are FoodDec 31, 20186 votes

Oh, I'm not a fan of Conqueror. I advocated against that keystone when it was being tested, because I'm against True Damage. Have been for years.

Just saying that amount of damage at level 6-7 was accurate right now.

KazekibaJan 6, 20191 votes

Oh I wasn't saying OP was lying or anything, I'm saying Darius' Passive + Conqueror at level 6 or so gives him around 55 bonus AD. Like, that's literally what the abilities do, given that taking True Damage from Darius' ult means youre at full bleed stacks and Darius' Noxian Might would activate.

55 AD is A LOT, especially at such an early point in the game, and with Darius' ratios.

Cats Are FoodJan 6, 20191 votes

Indeed, it's 5 1/2 longswords. Just for starters.

It's a 1,900 gold value of stats, passively, just for existing and doing what you normally do anyway.

VoraciousXDec 31, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cats Are Food,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GX7rZRAj,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-12-31T04:56:36.027+0000)

Pretty accurate, though, if he caught full stacks which means the Darius had time to unload on him completely, especially if he caught him at max Q.

TBF One yoink gives you 4 pretty free stacks(E, auto, Q, auto, W, auto and it's 5, again, pretty free. Ignoring one auto makes it 4 and a lot easier to pull off). Darius runs Trinity Force now meaning he gets 40% bonus attack speed, unlike the 0% he used to get, making one more auto attack much quicker. So really it's kind of innacurate to say he had TIME to unload on him. This can all be done within probably 2 seconds at most. Not saying Darius is OP, but if he can land an E it's a pretty free trade unless you have a dash so you can dash into him while he slows you, autos you 3 times, hits you with the edge of his blade while you're slowed, and then ults you because hey 5 stacks in one combo. Let's not forget the fact that Darius himself, without bonus HP, has around 1k HP at level 7. So nearly ALL of a Darius' HP was done in true damage at this point.

If Conqueror did 300 damage, that's nearly 1/3 of someone's HP with no armor or magic resist to shield from. Compare that to Electrocute, which is around 220 damage + I think 10% AP(you might be lucky to have 100 AP at this point, meaning 240 damage AGAINST RESISTS, assuming you're a caster since idr the AD scaling and it should be pretty close to the same damage). Base resists are generally around 30% or so at this level I think, meaning Electrocute would do around 168 damage. 168 damage...vs 300....

Btw I've thought Conqueror was OP since it came out. I even used it on Katarina vs champs I thought would build magic resist to negate it. Worked quite well to give me an edge.

Cats Are FoodDec 31, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cats Are Food,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GX7rZRAj,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-31T05:38:20.037+0000)

Oh, I'm not a fan of Conqueror. I advocated against that keystone when it was being tested, because I'm against True Damage. Have been for years.

Just saying that amount of damage at level 6-7 was accurate right now.

GilgayuDec 31, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bears Dont Care,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GX7rZRAj,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-12-31T04:53:00.814+0000)

Conqueror is 20% of the damage. So if you too 300 from conqueror, then the physical damage he would have dealt was a base of 1200. Assuming you had 100 armor.

You are suggesting you took 600 physical, 300 conq, 400 from ult, and 230 from ignite for a total of...1630? At level 7? That;s aloooot of damage being taken

Considering he took five stacks from darius past level 6, that's already pretty low

Z3SleeperJan 2, 20191 votes

1500* premitigation physical damage.

300 is 20% of 1500.

Bears Dont CareJan 2, 20191 votes

{quoted}

1500* premitigation physical damage.

300 is 20% of 1500.

Conqueror converts 20% of the damage. So the other 80% of the damage was 1200 physical damage prior to mitigation.

Z3SleeperJan 2, 20191 votes

Oh I was reading it with a different interpretation. You said 1200 "base" so I was like, nah the base damage would be 1500 physical that's converted into 1200 physical and 300 true.

RyzeTheSmurfMageDec 31, 20189 votes

Yeah summoner 14 is bull shit op at the moment.

BrightWîngsDec 31, 20183 votes

agreed

MarshbouyDec 31, 20182 votes

#make exhaust great again

DuskDaUmbreonDec 31, 20187 votes

You do have to note, though, that just because it's true damage doesn't really mean anything.

True damage that would have been mitigated, though, that matters.

Also, you were looking at about 1500 physical damage without conquerer, before armor, if Conquerer did 300. For 2130 pre-mitigation damage, if you add in his ult and ignite.

I'm pretty sure you were pretty dead at that point regardless of whether or not he had Conquerer.

BrightWîngsDec 31, 20183 votes

idk had a decent amount of armor sadly not a whole lot of of HP think either way I'm just fucked lol

bluegolisanoDec 31, 20181 votes

Darius is easy to counter, it's so simple.

Play draft pick.

And if you cannot ban him because Illaoi is even worse, then play safer and try to stay on the max range of his yank - he has to stop to pull, so you can just back up for the most part. DO NOT LET MINIONS SURROUND YOU.

the shy topDec 31, 20183 votes

Implying there's a blind pick ranked lmaoooo.

bluegolisanoDec 31, 20181 votes

How is that implied, exactly? In fact, there's no mention of ranked games involved...

BrightWîngsDec 31, 20181 votes

Like I said my problem isnt with Darius my problem was the amount of true damage someone can dish out in the early game true damage used to be a very rare damage type to have but it seems like everyone does it theses days and A LOT of it

bluegolisanoDec 31, 20181 votes

Hard for a champion to deal damage if they aren't in the game.

But yeah, his kit is just 'slightly' bork'd. Like how Empowered Quiver isn't overpowered on 300% strength Ivara.

Overall, just get used to the attack pattern; if you dodge the sweet spot on the Q or the yank, you're fine.

DuskDaUmbreonDec 31, 201814 votes

If you were level 6-7, this was within 6-9 minutes in. Based on when kills happened, this would be at roughly 7 minutes, since that's his only kill on you in that timeframe.

Your only items at the time were item 1054 item 3024 and 1-3 potions. You had +5 armor from runes (as you went with damage for your second shard, instead of armor). That's +25 armor. Poppy has 52 base armor at 6, putting you at a total of 77. Your W gave you +8/+15 armor, depending on your health, for 85/92 armor.

That's decent, but not really that much, especially considering he already had the 15% armor pen from E (Giving you 72/78 effective armor).

You had about 58% damage reduction when most of the physical damage happened. Meaning about 872 physical damage without Conquerer (again, assuming Conq did 300 true damage). Conquerer itself, however, only gave 126 damage (out of 998 total) that would have otherwise been reduced (300-174 (the damage that would not have been reduced)). Which really isn't that much, all things considered.

In fact, Conquerer was irrelevant here. You had 976 health at the time. You only had 104 health after the physical damage alone, and you said his ult did 400 damage. Conquerer's true damage never mattered, because his kit killed you.

tl;dr: Conquerer was irrelevant, as was ignite - Darius did over twelve thousand damage with his kit alone, which was 20-30% more health than you had.

Beacon AcademyDec 31, 20184 votes

Doesn't... That just make this worse?

DuskDaUmbreonDec 31, 20188 votes

Shrug I'm just pointing out that the only good Conquerer did here was give some AD. It did literally nothing else for Darius in this instance.

BrightWîngsDec 31, 20184 votes

well the death recap ( yeah i know its not great ) did say i took 300 TRUE damage not mixed so I dont think it was irrelevant seeings how it did 300 true damage it did a lot. Conqueror started the second he started hitting ( so before his ult ) then at the end he ulted I was still alive and the summoner 14 along with bleed finished me. I dont think it was irreverent because I'm sure if he had any other rune I would have lived I think it was pretty relevant. Again maybe the death recap was just doing what it always does and spits out bull shit but thats what it told me.

GilgayuDec 31, 20183 votes

{quoted}

well the death recap ( yeah i know its not great ) did say i took 300 TRUE damage not mixed so I dont think it was irrelevant seeings how it did 300 true damage it did a lot. Conqueror started the second he started hitting ( so before his ult ) then at the end he ulted I was still alive and the along with bleed finished me. I dont think it was irreverent because I'm sure if he had any other rune I would have lived I think it was pretty relevant. Again maybe the death recap was just doing what it always does and spits out bull shit but thats what it told me.

If he had phase rush and ghost you will know what it feels like for a brusier to get 600+ ms almost instantly. It would be a much easy kill for him if he is even in item

BrightWîngsJan 1, 20191 votes

In this exact scenario phase rush wasn't really necessary I was under tower if anything I could have potentially turned it around but who knows again not really that salty about it just was a little crazy to me

TLF brubieJan 1, 20191 votes

Never take death recap seriously, it's beyond bugged. I consistently see hundreds of damage being dealt by things like xerath passive and other no damaging passives

SpecterVonBarenDec 31, 20183 votes

Darius has always been a bullshit champ for tanks to have to lane against. Yes, it's bullshit, yes, his kit is still poorly designed as a giant middle finger to melee champs, but it's not something new.

GilgayuDec 31, 20182 votes

Agreed.

The moment he gets 6 stack you are pretty much dead. That slow in his e is also bs since it's 2 cc in 1 ability! Like, really?

a good darius will e auto w q. a great darius who knows about his e slow will e auto auto w auto q and you are pretty much dead

3TWarriorDec 31, 20181 votes

or work flash in their if the opponent burns theirs. His sustain is good enough to manage minion aggro

4th3t0sDec 31, 20181 votes

Least he's not Gnar

Du Ma MiDec 31, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Darius did over twelve thousand damage with his kit alone

I believe you mean hundred, 12000 damage at levels 6-7 is a little much don't you think?[slayer-jinx-wink]

IfnethDec 31, 20182 votes

Nitpick: twelve-thousand is 12,000. I think you meant one-thousand, two-hundred, which is 1,200.

HeimerLmaoJan 1, 20191 votes

{quoted}

If you were level 6-7, this was within 6-9 minutes in. Based on when kills happened, this would be at roughly 7 minutes, since that's his only kill on you in that timeframe.

Your only items at the time were and 1-3 potions. You had +5 armor from runes (as you went with damage for your second shard, instead of armor). That's +25 armor. Poppy has 52 base armor at 6, putting you at a total of 77. Your W gave you +8/+15 armor, depending on your health, for 85/92 armor.

That's decent, but not really that much, especially considering he already had the 15% armor pen from E (Giving you 72/78 effective armor).

You had about 58% damage reduction when most of the physical damage happened. Meaning about 872 physical damage without Conquerer (again, assuming Conq did 300 true damage). Conquerer itself, however, only gave 126 damage (out of 998 total) that would have otherwise been reduced (300-174 (the damage that would not have been reduced)). Which really isn't that much, all things considered.

In fact, Conquerer was irrelevant here. You had 976 health at the time. You only had 104 health after the physical damage alone, and you said his ult did 400 damage. Conquerer's true damage never mattered, because his kit killed you.

tl;dr: Conquerer was irrelevant, as was ignite - Darius did over twelve thousand damage with his kit alone, which was 20-30% more health than you had.

I think you mean 1.2 thousand. Twelve thousand is ten times as much damage, propably enough to oneshot 2 or 3 drakes in a row.

SaltyCauseBadDec 31, 20186 votes

Yah, I main Darius and its pretty disgusting taking ignite on him.

(Ive made it a habit not to in normal games because Im only a partial dick) But tbh conqueror isnt the best keystone on him, phase rush works better.

Anyway the damage he dealt makes sense, if he got his 5 stacks off and has conqueror the amount of bonus AD he is getting is insane

4th3t0sDec 31, 20185 votes

True damage should have stayed as a gimmick only on certain champions that were somewhat balanced around it. It never should have transitioned to another countermeasure against defensive itemization; nevermind conq and item 3715 .

SłarScreamDec 31, 20184 votes

I believe this arguement is a little one sided. Darius is a Juggernaut. He has litterally 0 mobility spells unless you take ghost, which eliminates the ignite true damage. His damage MUST be high or else he would be absolutely useless as a champion. Now do I agree with his most recent buffs? No. I think instead the balance team hitting the "MOAR DAMAGE" button they should have given his max range Q heal more potency in the later game, maybe some more armor and mr per level so he doesn't get absolutely shredded in team fights while he is slowed by 90% while being stunned while the adc has 4 shields on him while the mid laner is running circles around him bursting an off tank like he is made of paper. Darius has major problems later in the game which riot decided instead of fixing those they would just make him mega oppressive against certain champs in top laning phase. Now play Darius against litterally any ranged top laner that has kite and you will see what a useless Darius looks like. Also true damage in the early game is when it is in its weakest state, just because no one has had the ability to buy alot of resists for it to be that efficient.

KaishaDec 31, 20183 votes

The game is an unbalanced sht show.

Silly NeekoDec 31, 20182 votes

thats called executioners. also, i feel like the conq is a bit bugged. it may SHOW that the damage was true damage, but i do not think it actually is most of the time

the shy topDec 31, 20186 votes

thats called executioners.

Silly NeekoDec 31, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=the shy top,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GX7rZRAj,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-12-31T12:35:18.847+0000)

?

I mean, executioner skills. Darius, Urgot, Garen along with Chogath and Pyke are among the most bs executers. What do they have in common? True damage (though garens is only for the villan, the magic damage he does for his ulti otherwise is pretty close to true damage since most will build just armor against garen).

Urgot at least has a sensible ulti, along with pyke to some degree though. But yeah.

Frontline FuryJan 1, 20192 votes

Darius has always been dealing a ton of damage, especially around his power spikes level 6 and 9.

Keep in mind that if not Conqueror we'd have Fervor of battle, which gave A LOT more flat AD than Conq does these days. You'd likely be taking even MORE damage from Darius in the past than you do now.

There's no excuse for Ignite, however. That one hits way too hard for a summoner spell with one of the lowest cooldowns in the game's history.

BrightWîngsJan 2, 20191 votes

well maybe but again my issue isnt really with Darius I do feel that I could have lived even if he had fervor because I had armor which is very effective early but the trade off was i didnt have a whole lot of HP and since he did a ton of true damage my armor was kinda worthless for the most part

A i Bot 0Dec 31, 20181 votes

Realistically there is a certain Degree of Coding that would need to be done for this one fix. This would have to be paid for(prioritizing anything else going on). I'm sure in due time this will be addressed. you may want to be in search of friends to play as jungler that will camp Darius's lane if you don't ban...Prolly best advice for you friend

GL!

BrightWîngsDec 31, 20182 votes

Like I said I dont really have a big issue with Darius it was just the amount of true damage given from conq and summoner 14 I know how to play around his abilities I ended up solo killing him like twice I think that game. for the most part I think he is fair I was playing a tank and hes good at killing them I just dont think close to 1000 true damage early levels is really reasonable.

A i Bot 0Dec 31, 20181 votes

I know you say that, but there aren't many other top laners that will do that much. So if we aren't talkling Darius we can subtract like3-500 from 1000 and have maybe 500 true damage from ignite and abilities. I do think that what you really mean is for Conq's passive to have a cd as if you were a ranged champion or if it were like electrocute or lethal tempo.

Bears Dont CareJan 1, 20191 votes

Haha triggering indeed, but my point is that while he did take 1630, if you were to remove conqueror and consider physical damage mitigation, he still would have died at level 6 or 7. Conqueror doesn't provide as much as people believe. Darius wants it not necessarily for the true damage he deals; he does hve 25% armor pen and an additional 24 from BC; but because the additional AD provides more true damage for his ult.

Z3SleeperJan 2, 20191 votes

300 from Conqueror? That means he dealt 1500 premitigation physical damage.