Boards›Gameplay

Some Proposed Lulu Changes

AHarmlessTaco··2 votes·284 views

Hey all! Just kinda brainstorming some ways to make Lulu a little more interesting. Some thoughts:

Glitterlance (Q):

Enemies hit are marked for 6 seconds, receiving 50% increased damage from Pix's bolts.

So, this change rewards Lulu for landing Glitterlance and increases the damage that Pix would deal, whether Lulu AA's, her ally AA's with Pix helping, or if Lulu uses the proposed E change.

Whimsy (W):

Target enemy is polymorphed, changing them into a harmless animal. During this time, they cannot attack or cast spells and are slowed towards enemy champions, but gain massively increased movement speed away from enemy champions.

This one would be a nerf, having both flavor and loosening up Lulu's power budget. It forces Polymorph to be a defensive countermeasure, noting that: A. No one wants to attack a bunny, so it shouldnt be used offensively B. Animals run fast AF C. Animals, like rabbits, don't run fast at you, they run fast away from you D. This skill would be less oppressive and would define good Lulu's

Pix, Help! (E):

Target enemy is chased by Pix for 5 seconds, during which Pix fires bolts at them based on Lulu's attack speed.

I think this would be a lot healthier than point and click burst. It introduces counterplay (minions and champs can block Pix) and also has synergy with the proposed Q change. It also would scale with attack speed Lulu, giving her a form of poke that doesn't always require her to be in sustained combat.

16 Comments

HalcyonDweller2 votes

Seems like some interesting changes. I don't agree completely, but this is a huge step up from the usual circle-jerks found on the boards.

And these are some very neat ideas.

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

AHarmlessTaco1 votes

I love Lulu and I definitely don't want to circle jerk her, I just thought I'd throw out some things I've thought of that might help push her away from abusive poke / shield bot and into something a little more manageable.

If I may ask, what struck you as not agreeable? :)

HalcyonDweller1 votes

Liked the glitterlance idea, it adds more interaction in her kit by moving some of the damage from glitterlance onto her passive (help pix) projectiles. Might be good to also slightly nerf the projectiles so that they are specifically powerful in this situation (to encourage her to use it effectively while also not letting it become too oppressive for enemies when used optimally).

My knee-jerk reaction to the Whimsy change was "Hell no!" But now that I'm looking at it that's actually a good way to give it more counterplay, helping enemies to disengage when it screws them. I have changed my mind and I now agree with this idea.

For the last one, it's good to spread out the burst damage and offer enemies counterplay. But I'm not sure it's a good idea to buff attack speed Lulu, she had a number of problems when used in the past and might be too easily made oppressive again, on top of that the ability stays fairly low-interaction for Lulu; she can just throw it onto an enemy and walk away while it does damage.

AHarmlessTaco1 votes

I think that the fact that Pix bolts can be body blocked by tanks and minions SHOULD be enough to let it still have counter play, all things considered, which would allow it to have significantly more power budget.

My knee jerk reaction to Bard ults and Tahm devour are also NERRRRR but in good hands they change games. The counterplay aspect was definitely something I wanted to play up in this one, letting her keep her damaging power budget in other places and perhaps lowering the CD on whimsy overall.

Like I said, it offers more counterplay than point and click because it deals DOT, and is body blockable by minion. I think attack speed lulu would benefit a lot from this, but I agree it could be oppressive. Im not entirely sure!

HalcyonDweller1 votes

{quoted}

I think that the fact that Pix bolts can be body blocked by tanks and minions SHOULD be enough to let it still have counter play, all things considered, which would allow it to have significantly more power budget.

Perhaps, I don't have much of a problem with that. And I like the initial suggestion to make glitterlance buff the Pix bolts. This encourages interaction.

Like I said, it offers more counterplay than point and click because it deals DOT, and is body blockable by minion.

I did not dispute this, my only real concern with this change is its scaling with attack speed.

AHarmlessTaco1 votes

Oh, that is a really fair point then. It was a brainstormed idea that was more for flavor. Considering Pix can attack just as fast as Lulu, it made sense that if Lulu built low AP and high attack speed, Pix should deal just as much damage as if she built high AP and low attack speed. It would be a good way to reward both play patterns. That was simply my thought on the matter, and would also synergize with her W if she wanted to commit to a self W, enemy E, enemy Q retreat. The full combo would hurt but cost a lot of mana.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

I see what you did there, honestly its really cool. As long as numbers are tuned correctly I would think this would add a lot of depth and counterplay to Lulu.

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Nice ideas!

AHarmlessTaco1 votes

Thanks! :)

Quil Evrything1 votes

Biggest problem with lulu is not the kit. it's the PLAYERS.

For some reason, she allegedly has a neutral win rate (50%ish) at ALL tiers. so the champ is fine.

MY biggest problem with her, is that literally EVERY time I have a lulu support on my team... bot lane gets destroyed.

Therefore... certain lulu PLAYERS need to be patched.

AHarmlessTaco1 votes

Oh my. Well, I definitely wasn't trying to say she is OP or bad or anything, simply that I main her and have noticed some things that I dont like, such as flash E kills and general lack of Pix impact. I would love for her to be viable and not pick or ban, so I just wanted to throw out some interesting ideas. :)

Quil Evrything1 votes

50% win rate says she already is "viable".

So you need to pick better justification/wording for your changes than "viable".

As a some-time lulu player though, I also dislike the apparent uselessness of pix. May as well just throw him out altogether... except that he's the make-or-break cuteness factor for some skins, so guess you cant do that completely.

AHarmlessTaco1 votes

Well historically speaking, when Lulu is viable, she is oppressive. That is why I said that I would like to see her viable and not pick/ban status. The two don't really cooexist that well.

I definitely agree that Pix feels lack luster, which is mainly why I wanted to incorporate these changes, to highlight him as a partner to Lulu, much like Wolf if to Lamb.

Quil Evrything1 votes

PS: I hate your W change. It would turn lulu into a female bad alistar/bard:

"My name's Lulu, and I'm HELPING!" Helping by aiding the enemy escape death, that is.

AHarmlessTaco1 votes

"My knee-jerk reaction to the Whimsy change was "Hell no!" But now that I'm looking at it that's actually a good way to give it more counterplay, helping enemies to disengage when it screws them. I have changed my mind and I now agree with this idea." - in the other comments

Bard/Tahm/Alistar/Janna all have make or break skills that really help define good players. While this is a definite nerf to bad Lulu's, it offers considerable counterplay and skill requirements that would allow Lulu to have power budgeted to other parts of her kit and also reduces some of the frustration of playing against her while ALSO adding flavor to her kit.

I do agree that it could and WILL cause some frustration for Lulu's teammates, but it should alleviate some of her problems overall. Thoughts?

Quil Evrything1 votes

IMO, the only time transform is really useful (other than kiling a Kat ult, etc), is to Stop Them From Running Away. You're proposing to take away its best non-champ-specific use. So.. bad change, seems like.

If on the other hand, you want to make lulu more inline with other champs, that have had their point-click cc removed: increase its range but make it skillshot. Other than that, leave as is.

AHarmlessTaco1 votes

As a support main and avid Lulu player, I have to STRONGLY disagree with that sentiment. Polymorph is a STRONG counter to diving champions like Master Yi, Zed, Akali, and more. It also stops champions from channeling, such as Nunu and Katarina. In fact, it is also a good preemptive measure against champions like Garen and Darius when you know they want to flash-ult. On top of all of that, it is a simple shut down to ADC's because it disrupts their damage output. To have it be such a strong chasing tool, when Help, Pix! into Glitterlance ALSO slows from long range, well, I think it puts Polymorph over the edge in many cases.

Not to mention, with such a strong ability to shut down champions, on top of her ultimate, I think that she is too strong in both peeling and chasing and damaging at times. I think having a clear weakness would be a strong asset to Lulu because it would allow exploration into her passive, which is kept fairly weak if you ask me.

As for the point and click, I believe that Pix should be treated as an entity and not a projectile. I dont think he would be appreciated being thrown like Valor. I think that making Pix less instantaneous would be appropriate, perhaps with a travel time, but making him a skillshot seems distasteful.

I do appreciate your 2 cents though and I agree that the change would ultimately hurt Lulu's performance in the hands of inexperienced players, something that I would rather see than a broad sweep nerf to her shield or damage output.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by AHarmlessTaco

@RIOT: Vayne and Riven should, design-wise, not both be meta, right?
Gameplay57 comments
39
votes
Tower Buff : Sterak's Bulwark
Gameplay20 comments
37
votes
@MaliciousMetal and other Morde players; What is Morde's ideal identity?
Gameplay86 comments
31
votes
Teemo Rework to enhance his fantasy / decrease toxicity.
Concepts & Creations54 comments
18
votes
Demolish & Ohmwrecker
Gameplay13 comments
12
votes
Why Does Ahri Have True Damage?
Gameplay67 comments
10
votes