Camera needs a 180 degree rotate option for red side.

JavelinJoe·May 26, 2016·55 votes·3,610 views

The camera angle alone causes blue side to have a significant advantage in fighting. So allow red to have the same advantage so they equal out.

51 Comments

Vistha KaiMay 26, 201617 votes

They don't even need a 180 flip.

Literally everything that needs to be done is ~45 degree rotation for both teams, so it'd look somewhat like this:

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/8R2lEMRESmk/maxresdefault.jpg?noredirect

ShadowatomMay 26, 20166 votes

While that would probably be the best solution, it's also a can of worms considering it would then require them to remake the HUD considering the map would technically no longer be a square and instead be a diamond shape which they'd probably move....forcing them to move other things, and it would effectively require a full HUD rework. From a player perspective it's simple, from a design perspective it's a bit more complicated than just turning the map and saying you've fixed everything.

Vistha KaiMay 26, 20165 votes

Depends how spaghetti is their HUD code.

If it's, ya know, properly written, than is as simple as just rotating the map.

Also considering they remade the HUD already, it should be in a better state code-wise, as in "allowing for modifications".

ShadowatomMay 26, 20162 votes

It's not so much the coding, but more so the art assets. Turning the minimap 45 degrees wouldn't work with the current border, and it would look ugly to just create a border that is equally turned 45 degrees, which is why I think they'd need to remake the HUD design and art if they rotated the map.

Vistha KaiMay 26, 20163 votes

This is a work, that can be done within one working day by one person.

And it's a multi-billionaire company hiring thousands of people.

ShadowatomMay 27, 20164 votes

And that multi-billionaire company that's hiring thousands of people uses those people for other things too. Nothing is done alone in the Game Industry, it's always done by a team. You need the artist to create the new assets, the designer to place everything, and the programmer to actually code in the new camera/turned camera. Once they finish that, they show it to upper management for approval, which may or may not happen in which case they'd need to fix whatever problems are around, in this case it could be the fact that the game art overall wasn't suited for a different camera angle, creating a strange look on several champions. I realize I'm diverting from my main point of simply being a HUD problem, but I guarantee you most things in the game industry aren't done by one person unless it's just some small mechanics or value testing to make sure some things work, past that you would go to a QA tester and they'd be writing reports and making notes of everything, and like I said, everything has to go through stakeholders and such before it can actually be implemented.

Pierce The VealMay 27, 20161 votes

{quoted}

It's not so much the coding, but more so the art assets. Turning the minimap 45 degrees wouldn't work with the current border, and it would look ugly to just create a border that is equally turned 45 degrees, which is why I think they'd need to remake the HUD design and art if they rotated the map.

Well, you're only considering the border. But considering the fact that Riot has been using minions and other things in weird ways, I wouldn't be surprised if merely rotating the map fucked things up.

Vistha KaiMay 27, 20162 votes

Speaking of minions, Taliyah's wall is also coded with minions. It does appear on the minimap as such.

Pierce The VealMay 27, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Vistha Kai,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iw1BOrfU,comment-id=000200000000000000010000,timestamp=2016-05-27T07:56:34.813+0000)

Speaking of minions, Taliyah's wall is also coded with minions. It does appear on the minimap as such.

Lol wow.

It Hertz When IPMay 27, 20161 votes

Nothing new here, I vaguely recall a Rioter mentioning that coding changing terrain is an absolute nightmare, so any champion abilities that create walls and the like are coded as untargettable minions. Because spaghetti FTW.

Pierce The VealMay 28, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Darien Juranas,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iw1BOrfU,comment-id=00020000000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2016-05-27T17:52:10.328+0000)

Nothing new here, I vaguely recall a Rioter mentioning that coding changing terrain is an absolute nightmare, so any champion abilities that create walls and the like are coded as untargettable minions. Because spaghetti FTW.

The thing is there really shouldn't be any reason for it to be a nightmare. If they sinply set changing terrain as a legitimite terrain that gets deleted after a period of time, it wouldn't be so hard.

It Hertz When IPMay 28, 20161 votes

Never said it was a legitimate issue, just that that's what Riot had to say on the subject.

KensueMay 27, 20161 votes

[deleted]

Vistha KaiMay 27, 20161 votes

That's actually "Magma Chamber", meant to be "that other Summoner's Rift" in the Farce of Legends.

Spinning AxesMay 26, 201610 votes

Riot promised this about 7 years ago, and they still haven't delivered.

http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=32241&page=1#post358084

SpoofghoulMay 27, 20162 votes

so its goign to be at least antoher 7 years before we might get soloqueue a yorick rework and the remainder 179 degree camera rotation

AsphodelNextMay 27, 20167 votes

Typically, art made for games is made to look good from one perspective, if they can get away with it. I'd figure flipping 180 degrees would have some unintended consequences, from making the torches on the walls look really weird to making the game files double in size cause everything has to be prerendered in two directions. So it probably costs too much to do, both in terms of what they'd have to fix and in how many bugs it might create that would be difficult to catch with automatic bug checking(like someone has to manually go over every inch of the map each time they make an update).

INoble KnightIMay 27, 20164 votes

I mean it's not like they're a company that earns 1.6 billion dollars a year or anything.

DrProfVibeCheckMay 27, 20162 votes

Did you read the reponse?

Its not a matter of money, its a matter of work. As the reply said, to have the option to flip the camera would mean that the side that wasnt facing the camera would now have to be worked on to be on-par with the other side.

If you look closely at some parts of SR, there are graphically holes since no one usually sees them. The only time you WOULD see them if you use 3rd party software to modify the camera angle either in game or in a replay.

Riot can definetly make the option to flip the camera a thing, just as they have the option to buy everyone in America a McDonalds burger. They have the money, but the logistics and time would be a hassle that takes attention away from other matters.

YvaelleMay 27, 20161 votes

"Its not a matter of money, its a matter of work."

Money pays for labour. Hell, for Riot it's probably not even necessary - post whatever Lantern or Bush files aren't rendering properly for a flipped camera angle, and amateurs can open up Blender and fix their shit for them. Give me 20 amateur 3D modellers / game designers off this forum and I'll fix SR for a camera flip in like a week's worth of our spare time.

Mandang0May 27, 20161 votes

^This.

EMetaMay 27, 20161 votes

Exactly. Furthermore, many of the abilities that work above the ground have been coded to both hit correctly and to look like they hit correctly from the current perspective. (Anyone remember how bad Lux's ult used to be for this reason?) Then it would confuse the heck out of new players trying to find the symmetrical elements like the dragon pit.

So it breaks most of the art, a lot of gameplay on scores of champs, and confuses new players.

Could they do it? Sure. Should they? Probably not.

Pierce The VealMay 27, 20163 votes

{quoted}

The camera angle alone causes blue side to have a significant advantage in fighting. So allow red to have the same advantage so they equal out.

Which is actually true. There's a significant difference in winrate between two teams of the same when they are placed on the opposite sides. In exchange, Riot actually has to match the blue team up with teams of slightly higher elo to make it fair.

Very Hard EngageMay 26, 20162 votes

that would be very very bad, because objectives would change location with them and confuse people, even if it were a toggle option it would mess tons of people up, even you on occasion.

the map is not even and perfectly symmetric.

TsugagaMay 26, 20166 votes

{quoted}

that would be very very bad, because objectives would change location with them and confuse people, even if it were a toggle option it would mess tons of people up, even you on occasion.

the map is not even and perfectly symmetric.

Nothing would change location, the map would just be viewed from a different perspective.

Very Hard EngageMay 27, 20161 votes

then dragon and baron would change location on the map, right off the bat

in addition to the rest of the jungle, and certain brush spots...

you've misunderstood what I've been saying, you've just reinforced what I said.

if you flip the map 180degrees, then baron is on the right side of the map, dragon on the left. but when you actually walk to baron you are heading to the left and as a result your icon is moving to the right. it becomes inverted that will trip many many people up more than you think

TsugagaMay 27, 20161 votes

{quoted}

then dragon and baron would change location on the map, right off the bat

in addition to the rest of the jungle, and certain brush spots...

you've misunderstood what I've been saying, you've just reinforced what I said.

if you flip the map 180degrees, then baron is on the right side of the map, dragon on the left. but when you actually walk to baron you are heading to the left and as a result your icon is moving to the right. it becomes inverted that will trip many many people up more than you think

Have no idea what you're saying honestly, I believe you make no sense. Perspective is perspective, nothing on the map changes locations, and if you don't understand that then I don't know what to say. Yes everything will appear different due to a changed perspective, but nothing actually changes location, and really if you get confused from it then just use the default perspective. Arguing that it may confuse some players isn't very good reasoning, you can say the same of colorblind settings, screen lock, and zoom. You can use the features if you wish, or not. I personally might not use it, but many might.

Very Hard EngageMay 27, 20161 votes

SUMMONERS RIFT =/= THE MINIMAP ON THE BOTTOM RIGHT CORNER OF YOUR SCREEN

which would you like to rotate 180 degrees, either way, looking at either will be different based on whether you are red/blue

TsugagaMay 27, 20161 votes

{quoted}

SUMMONERS RIFT =/= THE MINIMAP ON THE BOTTOM RIGHT CORNER OF YOUR SCREEN

which would you like to rotate 180 degrees, either way, looking at either will be different based on whether you are red/blue

The minimap is called the minimap for a reason, because it's the minimap and not the map. The map may refer to the actual area and not the minimap. Also, that still makes no sense, if the perspective was rotated 180 then I believe it's safe to say that the minimap would also be rotated to represent the changed perspective, why would you assume that it wouldn't? That would be silly. I also don't see the need for caps, you're the one using unclear wording and not using any sort of logical argument. Your argument assumes bad implementation on Riot's part and player confusion, which even if a player were to be confused they could just not use the feature.

Very Hard EngageMay 27, 20161 votes

if you rotate the rift 180 degrees, and everything changes location, you now need a new reference every single time based on whether you are red or blue, will dragon be on the right, or the left, will baron be on the left or the right, which one is it this time? i have to check...

bottom and top lanes become inverted, you'll be sending your adc to the top lane all at the expense of having your camera shifted so that your nexus is on the bottom left corner.

you will be confused even just once or twice. its not worth the expense.

you simply can not change fixed locations, they're there for a reason and you need to know where they are to perform your best.

TsugagaMay 27, 20161 votes

{quoted}

if you rotate the rift 180 degrees, and everything changes location, you now need a new reference every single time based on whether you are red or blue, will dragon be on the right, or the left, will baron be on the left or the right, which one is it this time? i have to check...

bottom and top lanes become inverted, you'll be sending your adc to the top lane all at the expense of having your camera shifted so that your nexus is on the bottom left corner.

you will be confused even just once or twice. its not worth the expense.

you simply can not change fixed locations, they're there for a reason and you need to know where they are to perform your best.

Nothing changes location, why do you keep saying that? Changing perspective doesn't move anything, the only thing moving is the camera. If I fly to the Moon and view Earth, I will have a very different perspective of Earth, does that mean the location of Earth has moved? No, it hasn't moved at all, I'm just viewing it from a different perspective.

Why are you saying "you"? I'll be sending my ADC to the top lane? I'll be confused? Nice assumptions, you don't know I or how it would affect I. Maybe you will send your ADC top, maybe you will be confused, but don't make assumptions about I or speak for I. If you believe it would be too difficult for you to use, then don't use it, simple as then. Yes, it may be unusual at first, but so is camera locking, so is key binding, so is smart casting, so is attack moving, but these all can be adapted to.

If you don't like the idea or wouldn't use it, fine, say you don't like it and wouldn't use it, but don't argue against it by assuming that others would be unadaptable and/or confused.

Very Hard EngageMay 27, 20161 votes

then you arent changing anything 180 degrees at all

this is basic math here, which you are promptly crapping all over. tell me explicitly what you want to occur.

"let me change the camera 180 degrees" it either inverts everything right and left, or everything turns upside down based on which way you are rotating, jesus christ math.

TsugagaMay 27, 20161 votes

{quoted}

then you arent changing anything 180 degrees at all

this is basic math here, which you are promptly crapping all over. tell me explicitly what you want to occur.

"let me change the camera 180 degrees" it either inverts everything right and left, or everything turns upside down based on which way you are rotating, jesus christ math.

Nothing you say is even credible because all you continue to do is bash I. Anybody who uses logic has no reason to bash or be belligerent, you're resorting to bashing I just because I don't agree with you.

This has nothing to do with math. Yes, if everything is rotated then the Baron pit will be on the right of your monitor and the Dragon pit will be on the left of your monitor, does that mean that anything has actually moved? No. If I rotate a pizza, have the toppings changed positions on the pizza? No, it just appears different based on perspective, nothing has moved.

Regardless, if you don't want to use it, then don't, why do you care if I or any other player would use it? It has nothing to do with you at all.

Very Hard EngageMay 27, 20161 votes

http://forums.oce.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=13658&page=1#post122136

Riot Bright

People Programs Manager 08-18-2013 Hi AussieBoy30,

I can see where you're coming from with the UI. There would be more differences than just dragon and Baron though. The different jungle creeps, buffs, bushes, etc. I can see a lot of challenges with this idea, however, I will forward the idea to the right people. Thanks for your idea!

Best, Sue

dont take my word for it, take a reds

TsugagaMay 27, 20161 votes

{quoted}

http://forums.oce.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=13658&page=1#post122136

Riot Bright

People Programs Manager 08-18-2013 Hi AussieBoy30,

I can see where you're coming from with the UI. There would be more differences than just dragon and Baron though. The different jungle creeps, buffs, bushes, etc. I can see a lot of challenges with this idea, however, I will forward the idea to the right people. Thanks for your idea!

Best, Sue

dont take my word for it, take a reds

What is the relevance of that exactly? What are you trying to prove with that quote?

Supreme Senpai69May 28, 20161 votes

Did you guys really just downvote each other for the last 9 posts? It's okay to have different opinions :/

Very Hard EngageMay 28, 20161 votes

and if you read through all of the posts you would see im explaining a concept, and supporting a fact with riot posts.... and hes proceeding to give me his opinion on why im oppressing and insulting him and retaliating in an absurd manor.

hes disputing simple math and lets just leave it at that.

XanitMay 26, 20162 votes

The advantage I see is that, from the blue side, you are more often looking in the direction of the minimap, automatically increasing your map awareness if you aren't totally accustomed to CSing while staring at the map.

MeriipuMay 27, 20161 votes

{quoted}

The advantage I see is that, from the blue side, you are more often looking in the direction of the minimap

well I do not tend to view the map as relative to the direction the champion is facing

just thinking of it as a static thing works for me

red side is actually viewing the minimap more since you tend to view towards the bottom of the screen as that is the direction the enemies are right

blue has to shift eyes down and then up again

LatetotheRaceMay 27, 20162 votes

Funny part is, it exists. Riot has made use of this ability numerous times in trailers and such. Interesting that they won't release it.

AATTRROOXXMay 27, 20164 votes

This is a different software for recording games and is not capable of being used live by the players.

Sneakyy XDMay 27, 20162 votes

Hit "y" on your keyboard.

billxxMay 27, 20162 votes

Alright that's just wrong

Reaper SorakaMay 27, 20162 votes

The map isn't perfectly balanced. Here's an example from about a year ago (if I remember correctly): https://youtu.be/asOr9DaNM8o

I suppose flipping it might help with the UI and direction you're clicking/pushing, but it's still not going to be the same.

the ƒláshMay 27, 20161 votes

Yes pls

TeslynMay 27, 20161 votes

trust me... i hear what you are saying. but here is the thing..

the map when viewed from other angles is actually incomplete. Playing with the camera tool that now riot uses i realized there are parts of map just not painted.

also.. if you feel it is a disadvantage. understand that red side in pro play is actually sought after by some teams because of pick ban control. not saying this helps solo Que. Just saying both sides have pros and cons and there are reasons.