Riot shouldn't listen to the community, kinda

Marshbouy··100 votes·9,443 views

Why? The quick answer is, most of the vocal community is made up of people who really don't understand the game, are very entitled about what they want, and/or refuse to consider other viewpoints than their own.

The long answer is, the community is extremely varied in what they want and it is impossible to satisfy all. For instance, for every person who wants AD melee bruisers to become the top lane meta, there is also a person who wants the good old days of aura whore Jarvan+1. For every person who loves the diversity of top lane, there is a person who wants mages and ranged characters to be kicked out of it. For every person who loves the current meta of toplane, there is someone who wants the "good ole days" of renekton meta+2. For every person who hates ADCs and wants juggernauts like Garen to be great again, there is someone who despises juggernauts and wants them to continue to be gutted.

Does this mean riot should never listen to the community? No. If every ELO is having issues with a champion, they should be changed somehow. If high ELO is having issues with a champion, they should be changed somehow. There are plenty of instances where riot should listen to the community, but there are many more occasions where Riot shouldn't because listening to group 1 would completely shaft group 2.

+1 this build was basically build every aura item in the game and support your team by giving them shitloads of stats +2 this was basically "can X champion face renekton? If yes, they can play top lane, if no, they can't play top lane"

EDIT: guys. Read the fucking post. EDIT: wow. two rioter responses.

EDIT: To clarify what I mean. I'm not stating this as "I am smarter than riot and they should listen to me" but as "I am going to point out why the community is difficult to listen to." The misunderstanding comes into play in a few ways -clickbaity title -i'm not great at writing -i'm super used to talking about riot in a bubble, assuming that they are not going to read/respond to the post and using them as a springboard to make a point

and seriously #READ THE POST BEFORE COMMENTING

125 Comments

RiotGhostcrawler64 votes

Hey Marshbouy,

The way I see it, we are most effective as developers when we listen to the community as a source of feedback to help us make informed decisions. So in a way I agree that it's risky to just do whatever players suggest and hope for some kind of wisdom of crowds magic. It's not that we should pick and choose which players to listen to - it's more that you listen to all the feedback and begin to develop a picture of what is really going on.

Taking a step back even farther, what is the point of having game developers if all they're doing is taking in community feedback and acting on it? We hire people because they have good judgment and intuition (and sometimes also a lot of experience). Part of that skill is knowing which parts of the feedback to listen to, or to figure out when players are talking about X, that the actual problem is really Y.

I used to be a scientist (not necessarily a great scientist, mind you), so let me try this analogy. It's really dangerous to throw out data just because you don't like what it says, or even because you aren't sure how to interpret it. But it is the interpretation that's really important. That's where you really learn something. If I am reading the work of another scientist, I generally skip over their data. I just want to see the conclusion, and I'll only go back to the data if I think something smells fishy and I want to see it myself.

Applying that to players, you don't want to dismiss community feedback just because it seems contradictory or because you don't understand it. But the magic comes from interpreting that feedback and using it to make changes that do improve the game over the long run.

ModKnightsKemplar38 votes

I am a simple man. I see a fellow scientist (who transitioned to game design), I upvote.

EDIT: That made it sound like I'm a game designer. :3 I'm still a scientist, but I have big dreams.

Marshbouy13 votes

The way I see it, we are most effective as developers when we listen to the community as a source of feedback to help us make informed decisions. So in a way I agree that it's risky to just do whatever players suggest and hope for some kind of wisdom of crowds magic. It's not that we should pick and choose which players to listen to - it's more that you listen to all the feedback and begin to develop a picture of what is really going on.

That makes sense. Is it ever a massive chore to listen to all the feedback though?

Part of that skill is knowing which parts of the feedback to listen to, or to figure out when players are talking about X, that the actual problem is really Y.

hmm. Didn't think of it that way.

or because you don't understand it.

please tell me there is a panel of people at riot games who's whole job is to interpret the terrible broken english of some gameplay boards posts.

I think the biggest issue with how I phrase my post is my choice of words. I didn't really mean "block out anyone who complains about mastery yi" but it kind of came off that way. I really meant "don't just nerf master yi because people say 'nerf master yi'" Oops.

Thanks for responding!

Emperor Time2 votes

Ghostcrawler you may never see this comment, but I would really appreciate it if someone at riot would allow Ekko to jungle again, it really saddens me that I cannot play this champion in jungle anymore after playing him a bunch when he first came out. It's pretty much the only reason I quit during season 5/6 was because of how hard he got destroyed. And then I come back and they just completely remove him from the role all together. Also is anything going to be done about the shitty state of jungle currently? It feels terrible to clear Krugs and nunu is back at being the god of the jungle again and usually any meta where nunu is god says a lot about the terrible state of jungle.

PS please make someone fix Ekko jungle a good change would to either make his passive lockout on jungle monsters 0 or 2 seconds. He needs something to clear much better and I feel like that would make him much more viable without buffing lane Ekko. Also there are only 3 champions that currently buy runic echos right now which sucks. (those champs being nid eve and elise so we could always use another ap jungler :D)

RiotSparkle50 votes

Heya! So I read through this and I just wanna add that you don't have to be a trained game designer or Diamond level player or whatever to give valuable feedback for us. We have a saying over on the Gameplay side of things that I think is applicable here and it's "Feelings are never wrong".

If you felt super frustrated learning or playing against a champion or from some changes we've made - that's insanely valuable to us to hear! We have a lot of non-designer or non-"high ELO" folks here at Riot who help us playtest our upcoming stuff (and plenty of the former, too), and it's super helpful when they describe specific problems they found or feelings they had for us. Everyone's feedback is helpful!

We may not always enact the exact proposed solution from the community but I can't stress enough that we find the community's take on problems they see existing or raw feelings on features REALLY, REALLY valuable.

TL;DR Pls never stop telling us your hopes, your dreams, your memes :)

EDIT: Dang, Ghostcrawler's answer is wayyyy more eloquent than mine. Oh well, leaving it up anyway lol

Subject 55 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Sparkle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iuzbfAuR,comment-id=0011,timestamp=2017-06-22T22:25:23.142+0000)

Heya! So I read through this and I just wanna add that you don't have to be a trained game designer or Diamond level player or whatever to give valuable feedback for us. We have a saying over on the Gameplay side of things that I think is applicable here and it's "Feelings are never wrong".

If you felt super frustrated learning or playing against a champion or from some changes we've made - that's insanely valuable to us to hear! We have a lot of non-designer or non-"high ELO" folks here at Riot who help us playtest our upcoming stuff (and plenty of the former, too), and it's super helpful when they describe specific problems they found or feelings they had for us. Everyone's feedback is helpful!

We may not always enact the exact proposed solution from the community but I can't stress enough that we find the community's take on problems they see exist or raw feelings on features REALLY, REALLY valuable.

TL;DR Pls never stop telling us your hopes, your dreams, your memes :)

EDIT: Dang, Ghostcrawler's answer is wayyyy more eloquent than mine. Oh well, leaving it up anyway lol

Just a quick question:

Do you feel like certain players with certain categories of feedback are more legitimate than others?

For example, bronze, silver and unranked might complain about a hellish match up like Yasuo Fiora that are more emotional based - And so Riot will look at this not for balance but for emotional improvements

While a challenger player might be taken more seriously about complaints regarding actual balance and problems that aren't so emotionally based - and so improve the game more so on balance than emotional? Edited

I feel like it would be reasonable for this to happen.

SteelMankind3 votes

Implying that challenger players aren't guilty of bias, or never blame a mistake on their opponent playing a frustrating champion.

The other Red post in this topic describes how Rioters use feedback to get an idea of the community's stance on an issue, and mix that with their own knowledge of the game as a designer/API data to make balance decisions.

Riot Sparkle literally just said they consider the feedback of every player too, so I'm not sure what your point is.

TeCoolMage2 votes

I'm going to have to say this isn't entirely relevant - the wording in this post may make it seem that way but it's really asking about player experience (this champion is unfun) vs statistical inequality (this champion, after weighing all relevant variables to the winrate, is much weaker than intended).

Sparkle's post is purely about player experience and how it's an existing concern for developers even if the numbers say something is fine.

Mordepool7 votes

I" Feel" disappointed when Mordekaiser W proc's and immediately after spells cast or AA don't do any damage. I hear Riot MEMEME is working on it. Just feeling a little impatient after 6 months sorry

AirKingNeo2 votes

Here's a kind of related question, what are the qualifications to work in balance or design at Riot? I've played video games all my life and excel extremely in math, so I thought I'd look into this field.

Big Lincoln27 votes

are very entitled about what they want, and/or refuse to consider other viewpoints than their own.

i dunno who you could be talking about hehe

Melledoneus24 votes

I take the blame for this one. I accidentally created you while trying to make the most sarcastic meme in the world.

Come to papa.

OP Garen Support6 votes

Rengar mains?

RK N0va14 votes

The problem with mainstream social media and community platforms is that it has given a false sense of entitlement; "everyone's opinion matters". But that's the problem, some people think that because they made a post, they are right, which is why you see threads with people crying "riot doesn't listen to their player-base!". They do, but they usually filter out the crap. Not every post made is a valid complaint.

Tobias Brackner2 votes

No, everyone's opinion matters. That's not the problem.

The problem is when people discuss facts that are wrong. The problem is when they are forming opinions based on false information.

Cosmic Warper4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tobias Brackner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iuzbfAuR,comment-id=00070001,timestamp=2017-06-22T19:10:46.344+0000)

No, everyone's opinion matters. That's not the problem.

The problem is when people discuss facts that are wrong. The problem is when they are forming opinions based on false information.

well their opinion doesn't matter if they base it off of inaccurate info

RK N0va6 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tobias Brackner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iuzbfAuR,comment-id=00070001,timestamp=2017-06-22T19:10:46.344+0000)

No, everyone's opinion matters. That's not the problem.

The problem is when people discuss facts that are wrong. The problem is when they are forming opinions based on false information.

Do not confuse 'every opinion matters' with freedom of speech. Everyone has the right to an opinion, absolutely, yes. The validity of an opinion however, is based on the merit of reasoning and evidence; there's a difference.

Your post is contradicting the two between it's statement and reasoning. An opinion with false information or flawed reasoning is the main concept behind an 'opinion that doesn't matter'; It doesn't contribute any real validation.

This is why a lot of people get confused in the subject, people have not been properly taught critical thinking, so what you get is a platform in which anyone can just spout off statements and declare them as fact. There's a lack of emphasis on credible opinions (posts that support statements with reasoning and evidence). Everyone has become so relaxed with making posts that just declare a statement with the passive assumption that "I am right", bearing no logic or factual evidence behind it.

**An opinion is merely a subjective viewpoint, judgement, or idea, not necessarily based on fact. The strength of an opinion becomes more objective through the use of relevant unbiased reasoning and evidence. ** This is what separates the opinions that matter, and the ones that don't.

Tobias Brackner2 votes

No such thing as validity in regards to opinions. By definition opinions are personal preference that cannot be argued against unless you point out contradicting opinions the arguer has and even that is debatable.

Every opinion matters and we should strive to hear all opinions when making decisions. The problems all come from opinions that are formed on false information. Opinions are not strong or weak, relevant or irrelevant. There are only opinions that are well-informed and opinions that are misinformed.

RK N0va3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tobias Brackner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iuzbfAuR,comment-id=0007000100010000,timestamp=2017-06-22T21:08:03.263+0000)

...we should strive to hear all opinions when making decisions.

Again, I would like to reiterate, you are describing freedom of speech. http://www.dictionary.com/browse/freedom-of-speech?s=t

[{quoted}](name=Tobias Brackner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iuzbfAuR,comment-id=0007000100010000,timestamp=2017-06-22T21:08:03.263+0000)

No such thing as validity in regards to opinions. By definition opinions are personal preference that cannot be argued against unless you point out contradicting opinions the arguer has and even that is debatable.

So many contradictions in this statement. "An opinion cannot be argued against".....unless of course there's another opinion by the original person contradicting it....meaning it can be argued against. So which is it? Also, if I use this logic you have provided, I can technically say "plants are green because the color blue was already taken" and you can't argue against that because there are no prior contradicting opinions from me. (See how stupid that sounds?)

[{quoted}](name=Tobias Brackner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iuzbfAuR,comment-id=0007000100010000,timestamp=2017-06-22T21:08:03.263+0000)

Opinions are not strong or weak, relevant or irrelevant. There are only opinions that are well-informed and opinions that are misinformed.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/contradict please read this word, know it, understand it.

"Opinions are not measurable, there are only opinions that are strong or weak" - Tobias Brackner

So, humor me for a minute, and let's apply your level of rationale to real world scale: If every single opinion that can be formed by a person has no inequality or value to determine how good it is, why do we have a minimum voting age? Why do we elect government and commercial leaders to govern people? If everyone's opinion matters, we should not discriminate. LET THOSE 6 YEAR OLD'S VOTE DAMN IT!!!!!!!!!

Tobias Brackner2 votes

If I am describing freedom of speech I would say "Everyone has a right to say what they want." I am saying "we should strive to hear all opinions when making decisions." Everyone having the right to speak is separate from everyone being heard.

So which is it?

Read the last 5 words of the sentence you quoted and there is your answer.

"Opinions are not measurable, there are only opinions that are strong or weak"

The purpose of quotes is to quote a person, not to change their words. My words still stand. Also what the fuck are you even on about? We have voting ages because its a rough estimate of how well a brain is developed to reach accurate conclusions based on a breadth of knowledge.

RK N0va3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tobias Brackner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iuzbfAuR,comment-id=000700010001000000000000,timestamp=2017-06-22T22:47:28.887+0000)

If I am describing freedom of speech I would say "Everyone has a right to say what they want." I am saying "we should strive to hear all opinions when making decisions." Everyone having the right to speak is separate from everyone being heard.

They are the same thing. As long as people can post on forums, social media, and publicly speak, they are being heard.

[{quoted}](name=Tobias Brackner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iuzbfAuR,comment-id=000700010001000000000000,timestamp=2017-06-22T22:47:28.887+0000)

The purpose of quotes is to quote a person, not to change their words. My words still stand.

I was paraphrasing. http://www.dictionary.com/browse/paraphrase

[{quoted}](name=Tobias Brackner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iuzbfAuR,comment-id=000700010001000000000000,timestamp=2017-06-22T22:47:28.887+0000)

We have voting ages because its a rough estimate of how well a brain is developed to reach accurate conclusions based on a breadth of knowledge.

Thank-you, this is the point I was expressing. Kids have the freedom of speech to express their opinion and be heard, but their opinion does not necessarily matter due to the fact that they lack the logical skills to formulate a reasonable conclusion. People can express their opinions on the forum about the game, but it doesn't mean they are right.

Nik Nikerson7 votes

To paraphrase a quote from Mark Rosewater:

Players are great at identifying problems. They aren't so great at coming up with solutions.

Marshbouy2 votes

that's a good way of putting it.

Cosmic Warper5 votes

You're not wrong. Most of these high upvoted boards posts are from lower elo players who don't even understand the game. I understand if you're complaining about a pub stomp champion because you don't know how to play against them, but when people complain about a champion that they lost to an hour ago/ a champion they barely play against, it's really silly.

They also don't even add in any suggested changes. It's easy to complain, it's hard to come up with suggestions that are reasonable and leave the champion's distinct identity intact while lowering the frustration factor.

EDIT: another thing is that the boards and reddit make up a marginally small portion of the community. The vocal minority should never dictate game balance because sometimes they just hate random shit without learning how to play against it.

Hèntaî 9 votes

Dont forget that if they see that its their favorite poster they insta upvote and agree with them. Not trying to disrespect anyone but sweet jesus

Marshbouy6 votes

Pretty much this. If someone posts a highlight, maybe 2 upvotes. Now if MM posts a highlight... front page instantly

Apocalypsic2 votes

If MM makes a hugely biased post. Upvotes!

If some randy makes a hugely biased post. Instantly downvoted.

Marshbouy2 votes

^this That "omg tanks take so much skill" post gave me aids. Everything he said applied to every champion class. Everything. It was just a big whine fest of "oh my god, people called Mordekaiser faceroll!" then the comment section turned into a circlejerk of epic proportions.

Apocalypsic2 votes

Yeah but it's all about WHO you are I guess.

I said Ori was too strong and got flamed and downvoted, meanwhile later today on stream Challenger tier midlander LL Stylish is talking about how she's too strong and impossible to beat in lane while having too much teamfight power out of lane.

I think the boards are useless at this point.

Nothing of any decent value can be gained from a very loud and incredibly biased vocal minority...

Just my opinion.

Saianna5 votes
  1. Boards ask Riot to nerf ADCs since S4~~ (it startet soft but now it's either nerf ADC or buff anything else)
  2. Riots ignores us and buffs ADCs and nerfs everything else
  3. A turd comes in with this:

Riot shouldn't listen to the community, kinda

Well, good job mate.

OP Garen Support2 votes

Well said mate. Im all up for new things even buffing champions but buffing only the ADC's and nerfing everything else into the ground is BS.

The most infuriating is when Rot nerfs perfectly balanced champions just because the LCS is boring. (completely ignoring the playerbase)

HalcyonDweller4 votes

This is well said. Nice post!

I hope nobody uses this to justify rank shaming and dismissing of people's ideas on the boards.

gabetheguy3 votes

fuck you aatrox is broken because I jungled against him as yasuo and lost. /s

LordGeovanni3 votes

Your mistake is assuming all points are equal and that they are even 1 for 1 person

Teridax682 votes

This topic kind of toes the line between Player Behavior and Gameplay, but I'm really happy to see this topic getting Riot responses.

While I agree that some demands are flat-out unreasonable and unworkable (e.g. "Delete Yasuo"), I do feel attributing negative intent or incompetence to people just to discredit their opinion will always come across as elitist. Sure, a person acting like they're qualified on a topic they're really not might not formulate the best opinion on said topic, but that can be found out on its own, and those kinds of people only form a relatively small portion of the players on Boards, contrary to what many people think. Most of the complaints here tend to be more general and are honest expressions of the player's own subjective opinion (e.g. "I don't like playing against Riven"), and sometimes are substantiated by external information to support their point, so even if a player might not be Challenger or as informed as Riot, they are still capable of contributing.

What I think the real issue is on Gameplay, though, is that opinions tend to be expressed only in extremes, with little to no room for nuance, and often lose sincerity when they're used mainly to play to the crowd here, rather than to communicate honestly with Riot and work towards a solution. All too often, the community here likes to draw arbitrary lines in the sand where those on one side are X mains, and those on the other are X fanboys, and that only leads to antagonism and pointless arguments. That kind of mentality pretends that balance and design are always a zero-sum game, where making one side happy will make the other equally unhappy, but in reality that's not how it works, and if we dropped this useless name-calling we'd be able to work much better towards common ground.

OP Garen Support1 votes

There are times when the angry mob who upvotes themselves are the loudest on the boards like the Rengar mains. In reality us older players dont want back the old Rengar because he was very antifun with his ability to 1 shot any carry with no counter play.

Simple solution would be to have every players fill out a QUIZ of feedback when logging in to the game. That way we would see what everyone thinks on certain topics buffs/nerfs reworks and so on.

Teridax681 votes

Again, I don't think it's that simple, because while there are perhaps some Rengar mains who want his rework to be reverted, I think the largest part of the movement towards reverting him comes from players who don't like him in his current state, and who either genuinely think he was healthier in his previous state, or simply want to protest a rework that didn't succeed at its goals. I personally don't believe reverting Rengar back to his previous state will leave him in a good place, because he really lacked interactivity back then, but I also don't think his rework really helped him, and believe he will need another gameplay update farther down the line.

Again, this isn't a war between Rengar mains and everyone else, it's a lot of people with opinions about Rengar who are all pooling their opinions together, perhaps not always with a common interest at heart, but certainly with an interest in seeing Rengar improve. The same can be said for many other hot-button topics on Gameplay as well.

PrinceOfStorms2 votes

For every person who hates ADCs and wants juggernauts like Garen to be great again

I loathe ADCs and think the entire class of champion is a design failure because they do not only reliable damage, but high damage. Literally the only ADC in the game that isn't cancer is Jhin, because his ammo mechanic creates windows of when he's weak. No other ADC actually has weaknesses beyond "kill them before they kill you" which is impossible considering that half the marksmen itemization gives them %DR, lifesteal, and 1235891378918392393791890235790 defensive stats, none of which should be available to ADCs if they are to retain their damage.

WinTheWarOnPants1 votes

Does this mean riot should never listen to the community? No. If every ELO is having issues with a champion, they should be changed somehow. If high ELO is having issues with a champion, they should be changed somehow. There are plenty of instances where riot should listen to the community, but there are many more occasions where Riot shouldn't because listening to group 1 would completely shaft group 2.

This is really all you needed to say. Riots problem is that they are just plain bad at listening and implementing good ideas(or listening to complaints to stop bad changes ie Syndra rework, XinZhao buffs etc). Good devs should listen to their community and then(since they have access to the tools to really test good ideas) filter through what's good and what's not. then communicate communicate, and communicate! Riot just plain stonewalls the community(like they do after EVERY class update(which fortunately they listened enough to stop doing them now)) sometimes and refuses to address legit concerns people have. That's my problem with them anyway. Obviously, they don't need to listen to some guy who just got crapped on by (insert champion here*) and is just venting, but they DO need to start listening much more to people who make legitimate arguments and concerns.

Sqkerg2 votes

The thing is they are listening. Just because they don't reply to a post doesn't mean they didn't see it. Also just because they didn't do what the post told them to doesn't mean they didn't be listen to it.

WinTheWarOnPants3 votes
Sqkerg2 votes

Think of all the times you read something but don't reply to it, I know I do it a lot. It's the same thing.

WinTheWarOnPants2 votes

That's cause our replies don't mean anything. We reply because we don't want to be silent, and we just want to... It's not our job and we have nothing but opinions, since we don't work for the multi billion dollar gaming company that runs this game lol It's really not comparable. I reply to people much more than any rioter does(same for a ton of people on this board) despite the fact that I don't get paid to do it.

Sqkerg2 votes

They don't either. Most of the time they are doing it because they want to. It's pretty insane to require them to respond to everything they look at just to ease the insecurities of OPs.

WinTheWarOnPants2 votes

That's what the job "community manager" exists for... Game companies hire/appoint people to interact with the community. It's not "insane" to expect them to do their job. If riot needs to hire/appoint more people to increase communication then that's what they should do IMO No one said they want riot to "respond... to ease the insecurities of OPs". People just want more communication and I personally think they need to be more open about changes, like talking about champ reworks while they are being made rather than throwing them out into the game like "well... like it or not, here's what we did to some of you guys favorite champ! If you don't like... well, sucks for you i guess.".

Sqkerg2 votes

Your argument is that they are not listening to the community. I said that they are already doing that, as they have said multiple times, they just don't neccisairly write a comment about it. You then say that "[your] faith wasn't strong enough." Which I take to mean that you don't believe my/Riot's statement, and therefore still want them to comment. Which means they are commenting simply because of your insecurity.

Also interaction with the community does not have to be in the purview of the Riot boards. So incinuating that they're not doing their job simply because they don't comment on people's posts as much as you want them to is frankly wrong.

WinTheWarOnPants1 votes

Your argument is that they are not listening to the community. I said that they are already doing that, as they have said multiple times, they just don't neccisairly write a comment about it. You then say that "[your] faith wasn't strong enough." Which I take to mean that you don't believe my/Riot's statement, and therefore still want them to comment. Which means they are commenting simply because of your insecurity.

Holy strawman! How bout letting people make their argument and not assigning one to them? My argument is that they aren't COMMUNICATING enough. Obviously this is not an objective matter and this is my opinion, but i think that they don't communicate enough and when they do, they are overly worried about keeping surprises. My little joke about not having enough faith, is that i judge based on what i can actually see. I honestly don't doubt that they see a lot of the feedback that is on the board, but the "trust us™ we see your feedback" is just a cop out IMO.

Also interaction with the community does not have to be in the purview of the Riot boards. So incinuating that they're not doing their job simply because they don't comment on people's posts as much as you want them to is frankly wrong.

I said "It's not "insane" to expect them to do their job." because you said "It's pretty insane to require them to respond to everything they look at just to ease the insecurities of OPs." which sounded like you don't think community interaction is a big part of game design aka "their job".

Sqkerg2 votes

You responded saying that "[your] faith wasn't strong enough." To my comment about them listening. After that, my argument was referring to that. I agree that they could, and perhaps should, communicate more, but implying they need to prove that they looked at a post seems unnecessary.

WinTheWarOnPants2 votes

No, sorry. That was my bad then. When i saw

The thing is they are listening. Just because they don't reply to a post doesn't mean they didn't see it. Also just because they didn't do what the post told them to doesn't mean they didn't be listen to it.

I just LOLed because that's exactly what religious parents and preachers tell children when they question gods existence because he literally doesn't do anything or answer their prayers in anyway. "you just need to have faith" they say lol. I understand how you got confused now lol

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