The end on ranked queue : 3-4-5 man premade on "solo/duo" queue

DropFill·Nov 4, 2015·40 votes·7,900 views

For YEARS people asked to remove duo queue from ranked. Instead riot adds 3-4-5 man premade on "solo/duo" queue. High elo play on "solo/duo" queue will be stupid, since professionals teams will queue up together and make the game very unbalanced there. ( 4 professional players vs 4 non professionals players for example ). Also, being the ONLY one not on the 4 man premade will be the worst experience ever. Revert this stupid changes already. If people want to play in team, they can play ranked team.

50 Comments

KensueNov 5, 20152 votes

[deleted]

The Queen ViperNov 5, 20156 votes

{quoted}

Secondly, this is going to open up actual improvement for people working together.

Nope, it won't. Do the premades in normal games care about the random people they are paired with? Nope, they do not... why do you think they would care this time around? Nope, they won't. They will play their own little buddy-game and if you are playing solo, you can just forget about shot calling and stuff like that .... it will be the premade group who will call all the shots, stupid or not, and oh boy if you do not follow their calls, shit is about to go down fast.

It will only open up to the fact that either you find a group to play with, or you are gimped from the get-go and most likely just ignored.

{quoted}

I can't wait to actually be able to play with people I know are my rank that I know so that I can actually win more.

(assuming people are stupid enough to not take the advantage of their high elo friends)

Awwww, good for you. Now unfortunately the enemy may not be so naive, and could have couple of high elo smurfs playing with him, since there is no downside for doing it now since you can have as many smurfs as you want.

KensueNov 5, 20151 votes

[deleted]

The Queen ViperNov 5, 20153 votes

{quoted}

First of all, smurfs are a problem for that reason. Can we stop it? No. There is literally nothing we can do against it.

Well we can surely NOT make changes that will make the problem bigger and worse.

{quoted}

People already MMR boos with smurfs. Nothing will change in terms of that.

Oh things will change, but for the worse... you see, smurffing will be a lot easier when you can do it as a group, while doing it alone you can run into a risk of getting shut down by the enemy team, if they play well. However people will have zero change to shut down multiple smurfs in a same team, the skill disparity will be too high.

Not to mention currently you are not even always guaranteed to get the main role which can hinder the boosting, but with the upcoming changes you can.

{quoted}

I'm not naive - I knew this would be a stupid point people would bring up and it has no argument because people already do it anyways.

But you do realize that playing with a group of 3 to 4 smurfs is way more destructive and imbalanced than duoing with only 1?

{quoted}

Just because you have no one to duo with and have a crap communication team doesn't mean that this change shouldn't happen.

This change doesn't need and should not happen, since it won't solve anything... it will only make Ranked be equal to Normals.

My Waifu VanillaNov 5, 20151 votes

It already is. The only difference between ranked solo and solo queuing in normal draft is you MAY get a fancy border or skin at the end of the year. That is the ONLY difference. You play the same map with the same champions and the same rules.

The Queen ViperNov 5, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=My Waifu Chocola,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iqBRX1Vq,comment-id=00040000000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-05T04:49:02.971+0000)

That is the ONLY difference.

Wrong.

Your forgot the main thing, which is called balance.

In Normal games, people are paired quite randomly and from various elo brackets ... while in Ranked people are pulled from more or less similar skill/elo-pool.

RueianNov 5, 20153 votes

Normals are still based off of MMR. people who frequent Normal have their normal MMR fairly represented, but people who focus on Ranked typically have under developed Normal MMR

My Waifu VanillaNov 5, 20151 votes

That one. Your MMR is more "hidden" than just being Gold V or whatever but it is there and is a different number than ranked but if you play an equal amount they will be almost the exact same. Yes the MMR discrepancy is there when you start playing normals but the same can be said for solo queue while Riot tries to figure out where they hell they are placing you (hence the 10 game placements especially for your first venture into the ranked environment). This is also why it is suuuper rare for someone to get placed in higher than silver when they first venture into ranked because there is just not sufficient data to determine where you are as a player.

Tl:dr if you actually play multiple normals your normal MMR will actually make sense and match you with people of equal skill and not be this "random hodge-podge" of players thrown together. Yes, you have to put time and effort into it but it is technically the same game with nothing "on the line" (even though the only thing you risk playing ranked is a number on a screen but your body becomes emotionally attached to that number so you stress out when it starts diminishing) and you only lose out on potential rewards such as borders and a skin.

RueianNov 5, 20151 votes

Your first time through ranked is based on your current normal MMR. Ever sequential season is based on your previous season's MMR using a soft Reset which brings you down a tiny bit.

If you have a really high Normal MMR you could actually get gold+ for your very first placement matches.

KensueNov 5, 20151 votes

[deleted]

The Queen ViperNov 5, 20154 votes

{quoted}

You want people to have no communication because you don't?

Who said that people don't have communication in yoloQ`? I certainly didn't. However I do NOT want to be screwed over by having to play against an enemy team that has superior and better communication than my team from the get-go. That would be unfair and imbalanced.

{quoted}

You want other's to do bad because you can't do good?

No? I want everybody to be on the same playing-field.

{quoted}

The only thing toxic here are the people against this.

You have no clue bro.

{quoted}

If you're smurfing you play to fight lower elos to make yourself feel better about sucking in your elo.

Nope. If I would smurf, I would do it because I would want to help my lower elo friend to get higher and to have fun games with my friends, obviously.

{quoted}

You're saying that I should always have to play with idiots instead of people I can communicate with.

Well if you want to play with people you can communicate with, take your games into Ranked 5's, play only with your friends and stop ruining other peoples games.

{quoted}

All I see here are a bunch of people whining about having no one to play with >_>

Or, maybe they don't want to and/or are not allowed to? You know... ranked skill disparity and stuff.

My Waifu VanillaNov 5, 20151 votes

Except playing games of ranked 5s has a much higher chance of playing games where they are ruining my game than playing a 5-man premade in the new ranked system. With ranked 5s there is an ACTUAL chance of getting placed with Diamonds/Masters and not some smurf. Yes there is a chance that you can get matched up against smurfs in the new system. They already exist. Someone said earlier that there is a chance of getting matched up against a 4-5 man premade of smurfs and that I find close to impossible. If you are already Diamond or whatever why would you and four people go play a bunch of Silvers or whatever? There is absolutely NO reason since you get absolutely nothing out of it besides wasting your own time on an easy win that doesn't feel rewarding at all. Even as a Plat player I have played a few games against Bronze players and it is not fun in the slightest going like 12-0 in lane by 13 minutes or whatever. Also I doubt a bunch of diamond players would level up another account (or buy one or whatever) and adjust all of the accounts MMRs to fit withing 5 divisions of a friend's account JUST to boost them. That is just way too much time and effort for anyone to do and people will probably treat it as such. If you really want to play with that friend go right ahead and play the currently flawed ranked 5's with them and get them the end of the year rewards that way or just play normals.

DropFillNov 5, 20152 votes

{quoted}

All I see here are a bunch of people whining about having no one to play with >_>

A rioter just said today he prefers to play ranked SOLO than duo. Doesn't matter if I do have people to play or not ( which, you know, is not obligatory ). I don't like playing with duos, and I know I will absolute hate playing against more than 2 man premade on ranked. And you know why? Because I have to play their game, and not mine. When paired with a duo on your team, the random people are still majority ( duo is 40% of your team ). As soon as you get paired with 3 and more man premade, they will do all the calls, and they will play around themselves. Also, this change will ruin high elo. There is not much people there, and most of them play solo. This will make queue times ridiculous high, even more than it already is. Good thing you have a bunch of people to play with. Play ranked team with them so. I want to play SOLO.

KensueNov 5, 20151 votes

[deleted]

DropFillNov 5, 20152 votes

{quoted}

You realize the system will do it's best to match people who are solo with other solo's (which is going to still be the majority of players). It matches premades with other premades the best it can.

There is nothing wrong with not wanting to play with complete idiots and no one understands that half the people you encounter in ranked are toxic, incompatible, uncooperative, and generally try to play as a solo player instead of as a team. They want to be the hero. I don't want to play with these people, so I get to play with my friends.

Disconnects, intentional feeders, and ragers are toxic. If I can garuntee having non-toxic players I am going to do that. To not do that would promote furthering the spread of toxicity. I don't understand why everyone is mad. It just increases cooperation on a team. Don't do anything wrong and you can't get punished by a 4-man report. It's always been that way.

You can't understand this will destroy high elo play. I only play solo on ranked, I never usually duo. My main is challenger. Most of the people there are either professional players, their smurfs, and people on lower skill teams. I am not in any of these groups first because I don't want to be a professional player, and second because I don't have any interest in queing up with people just to get a advantage at ranked. "disconnects" will happen, being your friends or not. You will no longer have intentional feeders, but your friends will , for sure, feed. Rage is something normal, and you can mute them Toxic people can also be muted.

RueianNov 5, 20153 votes

This cant be true... because every 4 man team needs a solo. Solos are the fillers to every premade.

That is a dangerous conclusion to come to about all solo players. I dont want to be the hero... I want people to play as a team, but without an implemented voice chat system (which would be bad for the game overall anyway given the community), players outside of arranged teams can only rely on pings and quickly typed chat messages and 'hope' people will follow.

The system increases cooperation of the premade, but not of the team as a whole. a 2-man 3-man team is going to be a terrible experience, and a 4-man 1-man is going to suck and a 2-man 2-man 1-man is going to suck, just as much if not more then 5 solo players.

High5Nov 5, 20151 votes

"It will only open up to the fact that either you find a group to play with, or you are gimped from the get-go and most likely just ignored."

This what my experience with other games suggests too.

A much tighter, but smaller community. The have nots and solo players get discarded.

SkiasNov 5, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Snake on bush,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iqBRX1Vq,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2015-11-05T03:44:33.377+0000)

Nope, it won't. Do the premades in normal games care about the random people they are paired with? Nope, they do not... why do you think they would care this time around? Nope, they won't. They will play their own little buddy-game and if you are playing solo, you can just forget about shot calling and stuff like that .... it will be the premade group who will call all the shots, stupid or not, and oh boy if you do not follow their calls, shit is about to go down fast.

It will only open up to the fact that either you find a group to play with, or you are gimped from the get-go and most likely just ignored.

(assuming people are stupid enough to not take the advantage of their high elo friends)

Awwww, good for you. Now unfortunately the enemy may not be so naive, and could have couple of high elo smurfs playing with him, since there is no downside for doing it now since you can have as many smurfs as you want.

Id rather played ranked with two or three friends that I know arent going to afk and sink me. Its a good change.

DropFillNov 5, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Id rather played ranked with two or three friends that I know arent going to afk and sink me. Its a good change.

Most people don't afk because they want. And connection issues are a normal thing. Even your friends could go afk.

SkiasNov 5, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Most people don't afk because they want. And connection issues are a normal thing. Even your friends could go afk.

Cept for the people that literally get in arguments then say afk, then never come back. Or give up 3 deaths then never come back. Or get counter jungled then never come back. Most afks I see are rage quitters.

RueianNov 5, 20153 votes

What is stopping you from playing with people you know already? Its called Twisted Treeline 3man and SR 5man premade ranked teams. This wont make a positive effect on ranked for people who don't have people to play with.

DropFillNov 5, 20152 votes

{quoted}

What is stopping you from playing with people you know already? Its called Twisted Treeline 3man and SR 5man premade ranked teams. This wont make a positive effect on ranked for people who don't have people to play with.

exactly this. Even if you have people to play with ( it's my case ) , I STILL prefer to play solo. Also, none of my friends are at my elo ( I am challenger on my main on brazil ). And at my division, most of the times you play against professional players or players on a team. I am in neither of these groups. This will ruin my ranked experience, and I am sure it will ruin for a lot of people too. If you want to play as a full premade team, play normals, ranked 3s, or ranked team 5s

My Waifu VanillaNov 5, 20151 votes

They are coming out with the group system or whatever so you can easily find people to play with and you know...make friends to play with. If you refuse to play with other people for whatever reason that should not take away from those that want to enjoy a game with their friends and all benefit from it. Many more people will benefit from this new system than those that will be negatively affected or abuse it (and then get banned since they are making the punishments for not following summoners code/trolling/etc. more strict next season iirc). The needs of the many far outweigh the "needs" of the few and you should understand you are the minority. People do see playing in a serious environment with 3-4 of their friends but can't solo/duo queue without giving someone a big middle finger as a real problem and this is addressing that and providing to their actual need. People that are against this system do not have a real "need" to play by themselves in an actual team based game where you have to work together and will simply get matched up with a bunch of strangers with varying degrees of skill. This is such an improvement to the current system if you actually accept it and play with it since you will actually be able to play with your friends and get your "high" from achieving something (in this case a number on your screen that says your MMR) as opposed to normals where you either get a defeat screen or a victory screen with no real "reward" attached to it besides having a good time with your friends or whatever. I for one will probably play with 2 of my friends since we couldn't ever really do anything since TT matchmaking is god awful in ranked (playing against diamonds does suck when you are on average gold) and duo queue always meant someone got screwed over.

RueianNov 5, 20153 votes

"People who are against the system have no real 'need' to play by themselves"

Really? The same comment can be said that no one has any 'need' to play this game. I dont want to 'have' to find people to play with on 'my time'. Just because you can be a social butterfly doesn't mean everyone can, and realize that this system helps those with groups and heavily harms the solo players. I've been playing alone for practically 5 years, and even without this system I've encountered so much abuse as the 'odd man out' in both Normals and Ranked. This only invites less teamwork from separated groups much like the 'skyped duo' stereotype. Doesn't matter if i am a minority in not being able to play with others in organized groups, the system is going to have a lot of issues coming out, especially with the addition of the new accelerated champion select system which is built for trolling. Preseason 6 is going to be a nightmare.

High5Nov 5, 20152 votes

{quoted} Also, being the ONLY one not on the 4 man premade will be the worst experience ever.

^^ this

TheLastShadow45Nov 4, 20151 votes

they don't do it on purpose. Some of them my duo from time to time but since there aren't very many people in the higher elos as some people might think they can end up in the same game or even team.

Very Hard EngageNov 4, 20151 votes

riot is just slipping by "we dont want 60minute ranked queue timers at lower ranks" so we've decided to allow people to expand their groups. such that the people picking "solo mid", with their new ranked preferred position, will eventually find a team to be on and act as some pregroups 5th wheel. and "fill" will result in 90% of the time ending up as support.

DropFillNov 4, 20151 votes

{quoted}

riot is just slipping by "we dont want 60minute ranked queue timers at lower ranks" so we've decided to allow people to expand their groups. such that the people picking "solo mid", with their new ranked preferred position, will eventually find a team to be on and act as some pregroups 5th wheel. and "fill" will result in 90% of the time ending up as support.

"60minute ranked queue timers"? Didn't understand this one

Very Hard EngageNov 4, 20153 votes

{quoted}

"60minute ranked queue timers"? Didn't understand this one

im just exaggerating, it would probably be like 5~8minutes like normal team builder for a mid position. but it will be noticable increase up from regular soloQ, minute 30.

DropFillNov 4, 20152 votes

{quoted}

im just exaggerating, it would probably be like 5~8minutes like normal team builder for a mid position. but it will be noticable increase up from regular soloQ, minute 30.

Queue timers are really annoying on my division already ( My main is on brazilian server, challenger ). With this thing of premades and stuff, will be even higher, because most of challenger players are either professional players ,or their smurfs.

The FastNov 5, 20151 votes

Except the whole thing is that there are more people playing ranked than Team Builder(afaik). So queue times are most certainly going to be shorter. ALongside the fact that you pick 2 roles now, there is no way in hell queue timers will go up to 5-8minutes.

Very Hard EngageNov 5, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Knight Kore,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iqBRX1Vq,comment-id=0001000000000001,timestamp=2015-11-05T03:12:55.943+0000)

Except the whole thing is that there are more people playing ranked than Team Builder(afaik). So queue times are most certainly going to be shorter. ALongside the fact that you pick 2 roles now, there is no way in hell queue timers will go up to 5-8minutes.

but what if i pick galio ADC only?

DeynaTaggerungNov 5, 20152 votes

It's not teambuilder. You don't chose your champ in advance and people can't kick you if they don't like your choice. All you say in advance are the roles you want so it will treat you like any other adc.

FooDangNov 4, 20151 votes

It will be fine after these new "clubs" get established...in theory...

Mister MackeyNov 4, 20151 votes

The only guy not on a 4man premade who happens to win lane.

4/0 Darius "Alright guys I can carry us!" rest of the team "you can carry us back to our nexus because we already won."

DropFillNov 4, 20151 votes

{quoted}

The only guy not on a 4man premade who happens to win lane.

4/0 "Alright guys I can carry us!" rest of the team "you can carry us back to our nexus because we already won."

PunkkeeNov 5, 20151 votes

wut

Mister MackeyNov 5, 20151 votes

To be honest I dont even know. sighs in failure

CatSithNov 5, 20151 votes

Why would this be worse than the current solo queue? elaborate.

DropFillNov 5, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Why would this be worse than the current solo queue? elaborate.

High elo queue timers will be high to people who are not on professional teams. 3-4-5 man premades were always toxic in normals, why would this change on ranked? Queue timers will be higher.

CatSithNov 5, 20151 votes

You can't assume premades will be toxic because of normal, they have nothing to lose there. Theres a huge difference in a normal game mentality and a ranked game.

Queue times wouldn't be higher for solo queue, for the premade probably yes. Premades are 95% more likely to be against another premade whether it be 2-5.

With the new champion select and queue updates, They would eliminate most of the toxicity that involves in picking champions. http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/site/2016-season-update/new-champ-select.html

You should read more before assuming it would be bad just by hearing about the 5 premade change.

The Queen ViperNov 5, 20152 votes

More randomness and imbalance... and smurffing with lower elo players instead of playing only normals will be a thing now.

IcyPepperNov 5, 20151 votes

But it won't be solo/duo queue anymore.

I don't understand the title, they're specifically changing it from solo/duo queue now. They're ain't going to be 3-4-5 man premades on "solo/duo" queue because it isn't "solo/duo" queue anymore.

shrugs

I understand it was a... I forget the name. Persuasion technique? Eh, whatever. Anyway, this changes is the end of solo/duo queue and instead the beginning of a dynamic queue. It's not solo/duo anymore, it's dynamic. A change.

Instead riot adds 3-4-5 man premade on "solo/duo" queue.

Yeah, this sentence doesn't make sense at all. It's "dynamic" queue no, not solo/duo. I understand where you're coming from, but that's kind of dishonest wording.

Quoted from the ranked change announcement:

This upcoming season we're replacing the solo/duo queue with a dynamic group queue

There is no solo/duo queue anymore after those changes. So yeah, my point stands.

Citation in case someone wants me to back up my information. I know this is going to be downvoted to hell, but hey at least I backed my shit up.

DropFillNov 5, 20152 votes

{quoted}

But it won't be solo/duo queue anymore.

I don't understand the title, they're specifically changing it from solo/duo queue now. They're ain't going to be 3-4-5 man premades on "solo/duo" queue because it isn't "solo/duo" queue anymore.

shrugs

I understand it was a... I forget the name. Persuasion technique? Eh, whatever. Anyway, this changes is the end of solo/duo queue and instead the beginning of a dynamic queue. It's not solo/duo anymore, it's dynamic. A change.

Yeah, this sentence doesn't make sense at all. It's "dynamic" queue no, not solo/duo. I understand where you're coming from, but that's kind of dishonest wording.

Quoted from the ranked change announcement:

There is no solo/duo queue anymore after those changes. So yeah, my point stands.

Citation in case someone wants me to back up my information. I know this is going to be downvoted to hell, but hey at least I backed my shit up.

Ok, so it's even worse than I thought. They want to remove the part where I could play solo happily by adding this BS of 3-4-5 man premade on the only competitive solo game mode on this game. Great job rito.

killokillNov 5, 20151 votes

the 3-4-5 man premade groups are draft normals dont get ahead of yourself

DukuesNov 5, 20151 votes

Yea there is no way this change will stick and if it does its going to pretty much ruin ranked, especially at high elo.

God low elo going to be so much more annoying and its already pretty much hell.

DropFillNov 5, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Yea there is no way this change will stick and if it does its going to pretty much ruin ranked, especially at high elo.

God low elo going to be so much more annoying and its already pretty much hell.

Knowing riot, there is a high chance that this stupid change will stick. Low elo will be a bunch of unskilled low elo friends playing together and being toxic to whoever is not with them

DukuesNov 5, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Knowing riot, there is a high chance that this stupid change will stick. Low elo will be a bunch of unskilled low elo friends playing together and being toxic to whoever is not with them

Yea, I mean sadly me and my friends are those elo guys. At least will be in skype and no need to chat bad things to teammates. But wow, i can already see the toxicity growing and that's what we have needed is more toxicity.

Yin Yang PugMar 22, 20161 votes

There are A LOT of logical fallacies that I've been reading. A LOT. I think the most commonly used logical fallacies are 'Appeal to ignorance' and 'hasty generalizations'. People love to have opinions on what they think is happening but they actual have no proof or evidence to back it up. HOWEVER the people (like myself) who only solo que by themselves can ALL agree that ranked que has changed significantly. There has CLEARLY been a change. I can't speak for everyone who likes to que by themselves but I can speak for myself when I say that it has been a very negative experience. When I que solo I play because I want to know how I stack up against the competition of the world, I want to become a better player and I want to learn more about the game. I main jungle Elise (200K mastery) and I was ALMOST convinced that I had become a worse player since the update. I honestly almost uninstalled because I was so down on myself for losing so many games and I felt like I was playing really well, better then I had played in previous seasons. Then one day I looked at the enemy team and four of them were a premade team. All of the sudden it clicked, I'm not the one that is playing worse, the enemy is playing BETTER. And the enemy team wasn't just playing BETTER, they were playing an UNREACHABLE level of better. They were friends and they have played together before and they had an UNREACHABLE level of communication unless I were to play with my friends as well. I talked to one of them after the game and of course they were on Skype, they had played as a team before, one of them was a smurf and the one thing he said that really stuck with me is that "Yeah we're just messing around and playing for fun." They weren't even taking it seriously, literally this change has made ranked no different than normals. The ONLY difference between ranked and normals now is rewards and a fancy border. It has dramatically reduced the impact one player can have on a game especially if that person is a solo que. HOWEVER it has made it infinitely better for people who want to play with two or three other people, in a ranked game. NOT FOUR, OH GAWD ANYTHING BUT FOUR OTHER PEOPLE. But you know, that HUGE majority of people who want to play ranked games, that aren't 3v3 with only two or three teammates, NOT ONE OR FOUR, and for the love of GAWD NOT NORMALS DEFINITELY NOT NORMALS. IT HAS TO BE RANKED WITH ONLY THREE PEOPLE. Then yeah great change. But for the rest of the majority of players, it really, really sucks.