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Gonna be honest - vayne doesn’t really bug me that much.

HateDaddy··21 votes·9,263 views

I’m not denying she’s probably too strong at the moment. However, I actually find her to be more tolerable when she’s strong than other ADCs like Cait, Jinx, Kog, etc. Longer ranged carries that can just stand behind their teams and melt you just as rapidly as vayne but from a safer distance are much more frustrating. I realize I just said Kog and that’ll be unpopular around here because he’s immobile, but he more than makes up for it with his W and playing with a brain because it’s so easy to peel now - just auto attack and stand by your front line.

Vayne, on the other hand, can’t actually do that. She has to get very close and then kite and engage in a series of kiting and chasing, so often times she can’t even focus the same target for a long period of time because she’ll stay too close and die. So this makes her incredibly suspectible to mages, because they often-times our range her and burst her in fights (ask a Vayne player about how much they hate ryze/Annie/Sandra/Lissandra).

Again, I absolutely think vayne is too good right now - they could definitely stand to reduce her stealth duration. But I actually find her to be one of the more interactive and engaging ADCs that has a more unique play style. Sure it’s point and click, but at least she has to get very close. Very few “hyper” carries have this risk. But people hear %hp true damage and lose their minds (not that I disagree that the concept is dumb) and lose logical thought patterns.

Being honest, I’d much rather have a longer ranged ADC late game than have vayne because her siege is weak; her pushing power lacks; and her teamfight is super comp dependent (and when you consider these things, that’s probably a clear indicator that she’s overperforming right now since those things don’t seem to matter). In short, Vayne’s design does not really bother me much. Downvote away. 🎻

81 Comments

Moody P32 votes

this post was paid for by vaynemains discord

HateDaddy4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ilwFjvhk,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-03-15T20:42:01.939+0000)

this post was paid for by vaynemains discord

Nah bro. I hate her 1v1 potential but by and large, her teamfight is not that great. Obviously she’s too good right now so that doesn’t matter - let’s face it, she’s bursting targets, not dpsing them down.

Daddy Ants3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ilwFjvhk,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-03-15T20:42:01.939+0000)

this post was paid for by vaynemains discord

Actually there's been no discussion of any kind about this post on the discord.

No one seems to care enough to mention it.

Moody P9 votes

$0.02 has been deposited in your account

Daddy Ants1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ilwFjvhk,comment-id=000000020001,timestamp=2019-03-15T23:07:47.129+0000)

$0.02 has been deposited in your account

I'll be sure not to spend it too quickly!

[slayer-jinx-wink]

KVbqbFsC8e12 votes

I'd rather play against other ADCs other than perhaps Kog, because despite what this board believes, I can build armor and not get killed by them in under 3 seconds. I find health scaling true damage to be a ridiculous and very frustrating mechanic, and the Guinsoos passive makes it even worse.

Sirsir5 votes

Ran well, Protect-The-Carry comps are probably the most terrifying thing in the game. Fortunately no one in this game trusts anyone else enough to play it anymore [sg-miss-fortune]

Vayne was fine before her R-Q buff. Now she spends half the teamfight invisible...

General Elephant3 votes

Relevant

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5E_CCCC6SuA

Chembaron Yamada1 votes

How is that relevant in any shape or form?

Bjørnetjenesten1 votes

Relavant in that vayne is supposed to counter tanks with tons of hp, but literally got 1 shotted by one without counterplay (except maybe flashing)

Chembaron Yamada1 votes

That's a problem with Cho'Gath in general, tho. Has nothing to do with Vayne being OP or not. He can do that with literally every ADC in the game.

Infernape3 votes

At least I can build against Cait's or Jinx's damage.

The one thing I hate is the fact that her % max HP true damage interacts with Phantom Hit.

Linna Excel2 votes

Vanye is short ranged and she has to stick to a target to get that true damage in. So she's kinda fair to play against.

Critmaster Garen4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Linna Excel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ilwFjvhk,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-03-15T21:10:27.486+0000)

Vanye is short ranged

melee champions are short ranged. vayne has 550 auto attack range.

these same melee champions have to fulfill special conditions that completely alter their gameplay to access the same kind of true damage mechanic that vayne just gets slapped onto her basic attacks. i dont see a world in which that is fair.

the fact that vayne was buffed in the first place was wrong because she was already strong in the meta. the fact that she was severely overbuffed just to promote her prestige skin is intolerable.

the moment their microtransaction system starts to influence game balance at all, no one should be ok with that.

HateDaddy4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ilwFjvhk,comment-id=00050001,timestamp=2019-03-15T23:06:19.102+0000)

melee champions are short ranged. vayne has 550 auto attack range.

these same melee champions have to fulfill special conditions that completely alter their gameplay to access the same kind of true damage mechanic that vayne just gets slapped onto her basic attacks. i dont see a world in which that is fair.

the fact that vayne was buffed in the first place was wrong because she was already strong in the meta. the fact that she was severely overbuffed just to promote her prestige skin is intolerable.

the moment their microtransaction system starts to influence game balance at all, no one should be ok with that.

She was definitely overbuffed and certainly melee champions don’t have the best compensation for their short range but many of them have several built in defensive steroids, CC, and mobility. Comparing vayne to melees just because vayne gets true damage is absurd. She’s designed to be a damage dealer and she dies instantly if something gets on top of her.

Critmaster Garen2 votes

{quoted}

She was definitely overbuffed and certainly melee champions don’t have the best compensation for their short range but many of them have several built in defensive steroids, CC, and mobility. Comparing vayne to melees just because vayne gets true damage is absurd. She’s designed to be a damage dealer and she dies instantly if something gets on top of her.

im not just comparing vayne to melee champions.

im comparing marksmen design to melee carry design in general. modern melee carries are designed around mechanics with kit inherent counterplay. be it aatrox crit zones, fioras vitals, garens villainy passive, darius bleed stacks other other mechanics that their opponets can play around. getting access to these mechanics is a reward for good play.

those champions who arent, are among the most complained about when theyre strong, like jax or tryndamere, or pantheon.

which mechanic in vaynes kit can you play around and outplay? what exactly justifies her having silver bolts just tacked onto her basic attacks, when melee champions are much more restricted in their access to these mechanics? champions who are already lower ranged than vayne and have less target access?

the only possible mechanic to outplay is the stun on her e. the problem is that the same stun is attached to a direct target displacement that already tends to win her fights against almost every melee champion in the game.

marksmen just get shit slapped on for free, and their kits are designed entirely without counterplay in mind. everything they have is 100% reliable. this is the problem with that whole class bar two or three exceptions.

even kaisa as their newest addition has this problem, so it doesnt look like theyre applying the same design standarts to melee carries and ranged carries, and its honestly pissing me off how every ability in a melee carries kit has to be telegraphed and outplayable, and they dont give a shit if you can outplay marksmen or have to live with being outstatted by them.

HateDaddy3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ilwFjvhk,comment-id=0005000100000000,timestamp=2019-03-16T00:03:56.926+0000)

im not just comparing vayne to melee champions.

Yes you are

im comparing marksmen design to melee carry design in general. modern melee carries are designed around mechanics with kit inherent counterplay. be it aatrox crit zones, fioras vitals, garens villainy passive, darius bleed stacks other other mechanics that their opponets can play around. getting access to these mechanics is a reward for good play.

Fiora’s Q prioritizes vitals so you often have to walk away and reset or beat you can do is stand by a wall, and even then there’s really no outplay potential. If she wants to proc them, she will.

Garen’s passive also punishes people for doing well so they can’t technically outplay it.

those champions who arent, are among the most complained about when theyre strong, like jax or tryndamere, or pantheon.

They are still melee and prone to being kited out and peeled, that’s the design behind their counter play. Is it old and dated? Yeah. But the concept of outplay does exist.

which mechanic in vaynes kit can you play around and outplay? what exactly justifies her having silver bolts just tacked onto her basic attacks, when melee champions are much more restricted in their access to these mechanics? champions who are already lower ranged than vayne and have less target access?

Why do melee champions need to have %hp true damage? Just because? And it’s not “just tacked on,” it costs her one of her spells and she has to proc it. Shorter ranged champions like who? Graves? He has a huge defensive steroid. Vayne has no way to extend her range past 550 for damaging purposes. That’s it. And as such, she’s incredibly prone to being bursted. The reality is, you hate her because she beats melee champions straight up. That’s really what this is about honestly. But you’re ignoring the fact that she gets destroyed by assassins and mages.

the only possible mechanic to outplay is the stun on her e. the problem is that the same stun is attached to a direct target displacement that already tends to win her fights against almost every melee champion in the game.

It wins her fights vs melee champions, not ranged champions. You aren’t being logical, you are just a melee player making your claims based on your biases.

marksmen just get shit slapped on for free, and their kits are designed entirely without counterplay in mind. everything they have is 100% reliable. this is the problem with that whole class bar two or three exceptions.

While that is technically true, they are still the easiest class in the game to burst. They are the epitome of glass cannon, so this naturally makes their design very binary. Is that good? Probably not but they are the only class that can consistently keep tanks in check. You can hate that all you want but this game has existed for 10 years and this has been riots balancing philosophy.

It’s very clear you’re simply anti-adc/melee biased and you shape your arguments around it. While you make decent points, they’re short-sighted and ignore the other side of the argument with no consideration of it. I play melee champions pretty strictly too but I try to be open-minded and understand that my biases can blind me. And this is the case with vayne, she actually has several weaknesses but when she kills you, it’s easy to see your death recap and scream about her %hp damage. But then you realize she gets stomped in most lanes (normally), that she can’t extend this short range (her stealth is too long atm tho), and she has no defensive steroids at all. She is the most prone ADC to being bursted down in an instant so her style of right clicking demands that she play with some give and take. I would take that sort of design any day over champions melting me from long range with little I can do to hope to break through a front line to get them.

NemeBro1 votes

{quoted}

The reality is, you hate her because she beats melee champions straight up. That’s really what this is about honestly. But you’re ignoring the fact that she gets destroyed by assassins and mages.

Yep.

Specifically juggernauts. She buttstomps them with very little effort, even (especially?) 1v1. Partly because juggernauts are almost universally not, in fact, carries. Juggernauts as a class might be the single most early game focused class in the game. Late game is when they are at their weakest in general, and Vayne is naturally at her strongest at this point. So she naturally beats these slow fatasses with her target-agnostic damage and her slipperiness.

But do I particularly fear Vayne one on one as a Yasuo or Master Yi late game? Not really.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

{quoted}

Yes you are

Fiora’s Q prioritizes vitals so you often have to walk away and reset or beat you can do is stand by a wall, and even then there’s really no outplay potential. If she wants to proc them, she will.

that doesnt change the fact that its desiged as a mechanic that telegraphs her movement and is still outplayable by positioning and allows her opponents to entirely deny her access to those vitals when you play the fight well.

she doesnt just automatically get the damage added to every q, or every third auto attack.

Garen’s passive also punishes people for doing well so they can’t technically outplay it.

garens passive restricts the access to the true damage to a single target that the enemy team is aware off. hes designed in a way, that when he doesnt fight the villain, hes a glorified super minion.

vayne doesnt have such a restriction, nor any other justification to why silver bolts is in her kit. her 3 (or 2) hit passive isnt outplayable. you cant deny her access to the ability like you can deny fiora or garen unless youre playing shit like Leblanc who can dive in trade and back out of vaynes auto attack range fast enough to drop the stacks. but at this point its just fighting bullshit with more bullshit, and even shes not going to be fast enough when vayne has rageblade stacked.

Why do melee champions need to have %hp true damage? Just because?

i literally already typed it out. % true damage doesnt have counterplay in itemization, but these mechanics are altering their gameplay, they have direct strategic (keep garen off that single marked target) or mechanical counterplay (position to deny vitals) for their opponents. theyre not reliable, and are outplayable independent of the champion youre playing yourself.

vaynes w doesnt alter her playstile or makes her aim for a special win condition to access the damage, that her opponent can deny her. if you removed the w entirely from her kit, she would be weaker but play exactly the same as she does right now. she would just auto attack the closest target that she can safely auto attack and switch targets if neccessary.

And it’s not “just tacked on,” it costs her one of her spells and she has to proc it.

its a passive, it doesnt cost her shit. its just unconditional power where other champions have conditional or unreliable power. be it something as simple as a skillshot.

Shorter ranged champions like who? Graves? He has a huge defensive steroid.

every single melee champion?

"but many of those have gap closers". oh well, then its a relieve she doesnt have something like a direct target displacement in her kit that would automatically negate such an ability, and that there is a load of melee champions who DONT have direct target gapclosers aswell. oh wait. she does.

and guess what. you cant dodge her e either.

Vayne has no way to extend her range past 550

cool. udyr doesnt have a way to extend his range past 175. garen doesnt have a way to extend his range past 175.

vayne has a 52% winrate on top lane right now, because she shits on melee champions with her so called "short range".

this is where im just going to stop because i think i made my point. there is a clear bias and double standart when it comes to the design of melee carries compared to ranged carries.

melee carries ability to fight their oppoents always has to be telegraphed, or tied to short windows of strength, or outplayable by their opponent in some form. theyre only given tools that are slow, unreliable, delayed and have to be carefully used to be able to win fights.

even the new Irelia who is partially reliant on windows of power (stacked up), and hitting the skillshots on her e and r. she has a lot of shit in her kit, but riot still attempted to make her reliant on gimmicks and mechanics that create clear mechanical counterplay.

meanwhile there are marksmen like vayne or tristana who literally "sacrifice abilities" for 100% reliable passives or steroids on button presses, direct target abilities and displacements with the same power loaded into them. they only cared to give them tools to outplay their opponents without asking how youre supposed to outplay those champions when faced against them.

Ezreal is one of the only few marksmen who you can actually mechanically outplay since his ability to carry doesnt just depend on loading stats into his auto attacks, but is tied to his q and w that are possible to outplay.

there are some marksmen that are designed to be outplayable, but theyre few and far between.

Chembaron Yamada2 votes

"Everything they have is 100% reliable", come on, dude, that statement is not true and you know it.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

{quoted}

"Everything they have is 100% reliable", come on, dude, that statement is not true and you know it.

ok then. entertain me. what ability in tristanas kit is not reliable?

her bomb that makes about a total of 1% of her damage output and is only really there to reset her w?

Chembaron Yamada1 votes

That is one example. I can give you several abilities in marksmen kits which are not reliable.

Ashe R Caitlyn Q Corki Q, R Ezreal Q, W, R Jhin W, E Jinx W, E Varus Q, R Xayah E

Critmaster Garen1 votes

{quoted}

That is one example.

no its not. it barely has an impact on her gameplay, that was my entire point. her q, w, r are impossible to misuse or outplay. evading the explosion on her e doesnt really turn a fight with her in your favour when her other abilities make 99% of her strength.

the same for most other marksmen.

yea, some abilities like ashes r have a large impact on hit or miss, while many of those you posted barely impact these champions performance.

not no mention, this is a very small group to the marksmen pool overall.

Chembaron Yamada2 votes

Barely impact these champions performance. Alright, how about you try playing these champions without using the abilities I wrote here while fighting enemy champions (and I mean at no point in the game, including early)? ^^

In the late game, they can rely on their auto attacks. They went through a whole game before that happens, tho. And if they don't utilise the tools in their kit properly until then, they are going to have a bad time.

About small group: I actually didn't mention all the abilities. There are more. And the point still stands: Saying that "all marksmen have is 100% reliable" is a ridiculous statement and doesn't hold true.

The Bad Touch1 votes

{quoted}

That is one example. I can give you several abilities in marksmen kits which are not reliable.

Ashe R Caitlyn Q Corki Q, R Ezreal Q, W, R Jhin W, E Jinx W, E Varus Q, R Xayah E

Xayah E Say what?

Leetri1 votes

You can just walk to the side and her feathers will miss.

The Bad Touch1 votes

{quoted}

You can just walk to the side and her feathers will miss.

So if you can move 100 units before she presses e you're good?

Well in that case Vayne's e isn't reliable. It can accidentally be used on a minion or the wrong champ.

Leetri1 votes

That's not what they meant and you know it, stop being facetious. Xayah can miss her E, Vayne can't miss any of her abilities since they're targeted. The boards whines about how ADCs have 100% reliable damage since they right click, but according to you they don't have reliable damage since they could accidentally click on something else.

NemeBro2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ilwFjvhk,comment-id=0005000100000000,timestamp=2019-03-16T00:03:56.926+0000)

im comparing marksmen design to melee carry design in general. modern melee carries are designed around mechanics with kit inherent counterplay. be it aatrox crit zones, fioras vitals, garens villainy passive, darius bleed stacks other other mechanics that their opponets can play around. getting access to these mechanics is a reward for good play.

Literally only one of those champions is a melee carry.

Chembaron Yamada1 votes

Jinx and Kog'Maw die instantly when something gets on top of them. Vayne still has her tumble and her condemn to get out of that situation, additionally invisibility if she has her ultimate.

Yes, these other carries stay further away, but if you reach them, then they are done. They can't protect themselves nearly as much as Vayne can.

Also since you mention that melee champions have defensive steroids: Steroids like damage reduction and bonus resistances are extremely devalued by Vayne because of her true damage.

Daddy Ants2 votes

{quoted}

I’m not denying she’s probably too strong at the moment. However, I actually find her to be more tolerable when she’s strong than other ADCs like Cait, Jinx, Kog, etc. Longer ranged carries that can just stand behind their teams and melt you just as rapidly as vayne but from a safer distance are much more frustrating. I realize I just said Kog and that’ll be unpopular around here because he’s immobile, but he more than makes up for it with his W and playing with a brain because it’s so easy to peel now - just auto attack and stand by your front line.

Vayne, on the other hand, can’t actually do that. She has to get very close and then kite and engage in a series of kiting and chasing, so often times she can’t even focus the same target for a long period of time because she’ll stay too close and die. So this makes her incredibly suspectible to mages, because they often-times our range her and burst her in fights (ask a Vayne player about how much they hate ryze/Annie/Sandra/Lissandra).

Again, I absolutely think vayne is too good right now - they could definitely stand to reduce her stealth duration. But I actually find her to be one of the more interactive and engaging ADCs that has a more unique play style. Sure it’s point and click, but at least she has to get very close. Very few “hyper” carries have this risk. But people hear %hp true damage and lose their minds (not that I disagree that the concept is dumb) and lose logical thought patterns.

Being honest, I’d much rather have a longer ranged ADC late game than have vayne because her siege is weak; her pushing power lacks; and her teamfight is super comp dependent (and when you consider these things, that’s probably a clear indicator that she’s overperforming right now since those things don’t seem to matter). In short, Vayne’s design does not really bother me much. Downvote away. 🎻

Annie Ryze Lissandra Malzahar Vi Skarner Malphite Caitlyn Draven Any Mage Support Zed Talon Rengar Fizz LeBlanc

I can name a lot more champions that are "annoyances" for me as a Vayne Main.

People look at Vayne's AA range and go "Oh 550 is the average for a Marksman".

While they aren't wrong in the grand scheme of things but what sets Vayne aside from other marksman is all of her damage is tied into that 550 range.

If she isn't within 550 range of her enemies, she isn't dealing damage.

If a Vayne is within 550 range of ANY enemy then she is 100% in range of enemy engage abilities.

Only other ADC really who is kinda locked to their AA range for their damage is Draven.

Anime Fizz2 votes

Jinx is the most fair adc in the game, which shows on how even when shes strong shes not pick or ban in pro play like ezreal, lucian and others are.

Shes immobile, she has to ramp up her damage with her 525 range form to do most of her damage (if she sits at 700 range her dps is much lower) and she is reliant on takedowns to truly carry a team fight (can be completely played around).

Sir Saltarin1 votes

What makes her the most fair champ in terms of you dont absolutely hate playing against her is that now she's bonkers on soloQ and no one gives a fuck or bans her.

Anime Fizz2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sir Saltarin,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ilwFjvhk,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2019-03-15T21:33:33.672+0000)

What makes her the most fair champ in terms of you dont absolutely hate playing against her is that now she's bonkers on soloQ and no one gives a fuck or bans her.

Because shes fair, thats why, read exactly what i said.

She has the most counterplay out of every crit late game adc, so its alright for her to be very strong since she doesnt break the game when she is (i dont think her ban rate has ever went past 1~2% ever since after her release), unlike ezreal (this one specially warps the game when hes meta, he breaks multiple different items), lucian (makes you unable to pick anything that cant atleast go even with him, so basically makes 90% of the adc champ pool unplayable) and co.

In fact due to all her counterplay if jinx is ever at 50% wr it means shes probably weak (like 8.11 crit adcs)

BobaFlautist1 votes

It's like the difference between Master Yi and J4. Vayne's much weaker in coordinated play since her team just gets engaged on and the enemy team bursts her down - she can't really do anything against a coordinated engage without a summoner spell advantage.

But against a disorganized team, she'll just auto the tank to death in front of their teammates, tumbling forward to finish them as their allies watch. She'll dual the fed assassin or diver in a side lane and win. And that feels fucking awful.

HateDaddy3 votes

{quoted}

It's like the difference between Master Yi and J4. Vayne's much weaker in coordinated play since her team just gets engaged on and the enemy team bursts her down - she can't really do anything against a coordinated engage without a summoner spell advantage.

But against a disorganized team, she'll just auto the tank to death in front of their teammates, tumbling forward to finish them as their allies watch. She'll dual the fed assassin or diver in a side lane and win. And that feels fucking awful.

She’s generally not even really all that powerful in “disorganized play” (let’s be honest, this is low elo). But right now she’s too strong and and has too many stats. Stats will help you overcome a lot of your weaknesses.

mack91121 votes

She is in a spot that she can compete with the powerful pics in the meta when played well .

Sir Saltarin1 votes

Only on uncoordinated play.

For pro play Cassiopeia Vladimir or Irelia on Botlane are more played than Caitlyn, she's garbage when she's played at the highest level.

The Bad Touch1 votes

Cait the ADC that has to stand behind the tanks to melt you...

Vayne the ADC that melts you from range or melee...

That's all I read.

Mullaous1 votes

I think vayne dealing true damage is perfectly fine. She is a champ who HAS to look for an opening to deal any damage, and no one should be able to build a resistance that shuts down her damage because she honestly doesn't have alot of up time on her auto attacking unless she's got a perfect team comp. But she's generally a weaker pick for all the reasons you say, it's why she's never been and never will be the highest win rate adc, but she'll go through phases where people think she's "meta". I dread getting a vayne on my team, anything short of a good vayne is really difficult to carry. VS a jinx, kog, ashe, trist, w/e can get in damage from a distance that makes it much easier to keep them alive. And therefore increases their chance of still being alive to clean up by end of the teamfight and help get objectives.

BTW for those of you who don't know vayne has been sitting around a 51ish % w/r, which is to high for a niche adc. But jinx and kog have been sitting around 54%, which is absurd, but no one has said a thing because "immobile" lol. It's almost like a champ requires a catchphrase mechanic like "true damage" to get peoples attention :X

Peel for my ADC1 votes

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/current/platinum/plus/champions/ Sort the champions by the PBI indicator , #2 champ to have an impact on the game in correlation to pick or ban.

An average Vayne can Carry , A great one can be impossible to stop . No counter play for %health true damage . I don't hate her , I just hope she's my ADC or banned . And if neither of those boxes check out , I hope my ADC plays something that normally builds item 3085 2nd or 3rd

The Bad Touch1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Peel for my ADC,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ilwFjvhk,comment-id=001a,timestamp=2019-03-16T13:57:33.137+0000)

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/current/platinum/plus/champions/ Sort the champions by the PBI indicator , #2 champ to have an impact on the game in correlation to pick or ban.

An average Vayne can Carry , A great one can be impossible to stop . No counter play for %health true damage . I don't hate her , I just hope she's my ADC or banned . And if neither of those boxes check out , I hope my ADC plays something that normally builds item 3085 2nd or 3rd

Do we seriously need more useless metrics? PBI.... Jesus Christ. Only one that matters at the end of the day is Win Percentage.

That fact is there are 9 laners with a better win percentage than Vayne. 6 if you discount those with under 50k games played. Win Percentage in a game where wins reward LP, and losses subtract LP is ALL that matters people.

PBI.... seriously. Why not just sort it reverse alphabetically and say Vayne is the best ADC whose name starts with V. Judging champions on PBI is like determining the winner of Worlds by popular vote.

The only thing interesting so see on that page is the fact so many Plat+ players are stupid enough to still be playing Ezreal even though he obviously sucks at winning games.

Daddy Ants1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Bad Touch,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ilwFjvhk,comment-id=001a0000,timestamp=2019-03-16T14:42:59.242+0000)

Do we seriously need more useless metrics? PBI.... Jesus Christ. Only one that matters at the end of the day is Win Percentage.

That fact is there are 9 laners with a better win percentage than Vayne. 6 if you discount those with under 50k games played. Win Percentage in a game where wins reward LP, and losses subtract LP is ALL that matters people.

PBI.... seriously. Why not just sort it reverse alphabetically and say Vayne is the best ADC whose name starts with V. Judging champions on PBI is like determining the winner of Worlds by popular vote.

The only thing interesting so see on that page is the fact so many Plat+ players are stupid enough to still be playing Ezreal even though he obviously sucks at winning games.

You know why that is?

Ezreal is so god damn safe and with double tear abuse he does near Hypercarry levels of damage.

The Bad Touch1 votes

{quoted}

You know why that is?

Ezreal is so god damn safe and with double tear abuse he does near Hypercarry levels of damage.

Ez is very safely losing 53% of his games for his teammates.

Crap champ.

Daddy Ants1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Bad Touch,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ilwFjvhk,comment-id=001a000000000000,timestamp=2019-03-17T01:04:19.726+0000)

Ez is very safely losing 53% of his games for his teammates.

Crap champ.

If they fix double tear and make Iceborn Gauntlet melee only, Ezreal can then be buffed up to a fair point.

The Bad Touch1 votes

{quoted}

If they fix double tear and make Iceborn Gauntlet melee only, Ezreal can then be buffed up to a fair point.

Sure destroy 2 of his items... Then buff him 3 ad.

Frankly I gave up on Riot. Been playing Battle Royale games.

Used to play 10+ games a day... every day. Now... ehh goes days/weeks until some friend that still plays hits me up on discord to duo. Usually can't wait to get back to another game. The design team has just destroyed the game I loved from season 1-6.

It's really sad but it takes 4x as long to kill someone on a game like Realm Royale than it does to kill a tank on League.

Linna Excel1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Peel for my ADC,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ilwFjvhk,comment-id=001a,timestamp=2019-03-16T13:57:33.137+0000)

No counter play for %health true damage .

Yes there is.

  1. Blow her up.
  2. Get away from her.
  3. Force her to disengage or switch a target before the 3rd hit.
  4. CC her then blow her up/disengage.
  5. Poke her from outside of her range to keep her from going all in.
Bisaknosp1 votes

at least you can see jinx cait and kog?

Daddy Ants1 votes

{quoted}

Again, I absolutely think vayne is too good right now - they could definitely stand to reduce her stealth duration.

They tried that on the PBE around duskblades first rework and it obliterated the champion.

So No.

Partial revert on the 9.1 change should do the trick.

Drop the % down to 35%.

MrWashWash1 votes

Vayne can literally 1v5 and dodge every ability with her ultimate. She has massive damage with her W and has so much chase potential with her passive and her condemn is such a cuck ability. How do you not find this champion annoying.

[zombie-brand-mindblown]

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