Viktor Siphon Power (Q) Discharge Damage lowered from 20/50/80/110/140 to 20/45/70/95/120 Discharge AP ratio increased from 50% to 55% Chaos Storm (R) Discharge damage lowered from 150/250/350 to 130/210/290 Discharge AP ratio increased from 70% to 85%
Advising Meddler, before thinking about what is healthy or not try to see if said champion is permabanned in pro or not.
Jamaree5 votesThis place needs to come to a consensus if they want this game balanced around pro play or not.
D357R0Y3R2 votesAnd viktor has 52% win rate and 20% pick rate in regular
NO I DO NOT WANT the game to be 100% balanced around pro
but if a champ is broken in soloq, and ALSO the best players aren't managing to contain that champ, i think there is a problem
Paroe4 votesAnd viktor has 52% win rate and 20% pick rate in regular
NO I DO NOT WANT the game to be 100% balanced around pro
but if a champ is broken in soloq, and ALSO the best players aren't managing to contain that champ, i think there is a problem
Dude... The pick isnt even a month old. It was picked. In worlds. As a counter. To Urgot/Aatrox/Galio. THE PICK ISNT EVEN A PATCH OLD FOR CHRIST SAKES.
Viktor was NOT popular, or a problem, until it was picked in worlds and sheeple brought it to NA soloqueue. Once in solo queue people, instead of learning to fight against it, simply whined and played what viktor countered. Great example of this is a nice, long, impassioned post about how viktor is unfun and toxic because he just presses Q and harasses you infinitely due to manaflow band... From a Darius main. Darius, a champion IBG Vikky counters.
D357R0Y3R2 votesA champion that counters other champions SHOULD NOT HAVE 52% WIN RATE AND 20% PICK RATE a champion that works as a counter is for instance Janna against Alistar Janna does not have 52% win rate +20% pick rate If she had 53% win rate +20% pick rate (like before they gutted her shield) it would mean that instead of countering she was broken against everyone
this is viktor right now he counters 3/4 of toplaners 4 toplaners with a higher win rate than him out of those 4 only 1 is above 3% pick rate
Jamaree1 votesA champion that counters other champions SHOULD NOT HAVE 52% WIN RATE AND 20% PICK RATE a champion that works as a counter is for instance Janna against Alistar Janna does not have 52% win rate +20% pick rate If she had 53% win rate +20% pick rate (like before they gutted her shield) it would mean that instead of countering she was broken against everyone
this is viktor right now he counters 3/4 of toplane 4 champions with a higher win rate than him out of those 4 only 1 is above 3% pick rate
To be fair, Janna had that kind of win rate for 9 years and only dropped to this current level this year.
chipndip11 votesA champion that counters other champions SHOULD NOT HAVE 52% WIN RATE AND 20% PICK RATE a champion that works as a counter is for instance Janna against Alistar Janna does not have 52% win rate +20% pick rate If she had 53% win rate +20% pick rate (like before they gutted her shield) it would mean that instead of countering she was broken against everyone
I literally made that claim at the time this was true for a solid year straight and you actually meme'd me over it and still do to this day.
D357R0Y3R1 votesNo, this day I meme you if: -you talk about Janna in the past -you tell me that Janna still has no niche and can work against everyone literally told me that Janna can save someone from veigar with her ult healing
rofl
Oleandervine2 votesDude... The pick isnt even a month old. It was picked. In worlds. As a counter. To Urgot/Aatrox/Galio. THE PICK ISNT EVEN A PATCH OLD FOR CHRIST SAKES.
Viktor was NOT popular, or a problem, until it was picked in worlds and sheeple brought it to NA soloqueue. Once in solo queue people, instead of learning to fight against it, simply whined and played what viktor countered. Great example of this is a nice, long, impassioned post about how viktor is unfun and toxic because he just presses Q and harasses you infinitely due to manaflow band... From a Darius main. Darius, a champion IBG Vikky counters.
Viktor countered Urgot and Aatrox, sure, but he also counters like 90% of the melee top lane roster. So your point is a little pretentious in that you're leaving how much he royally fucks over pretty much the entire top roster except for like Jayce and Rumble.
Paroe2 votesViktor countered Urgot and Aatrox, sure, but he also counters like 90% of the melee top lane roster. So your point is a little pretentious in that you're leaving how much he royally fucks over pretty much the entire top roster except for like Jayce and Rumble.
All of thme are nice champions against Viktor, because for most of them their mobility, stick, and all in wreck him. Illaoi is the only odd one out, but thats because shes a skill match up due to her Q being able to hit Vikky when HE Qs.
Moody P2 votesIllaoi gets obliterated by viktor. talking out of your ass doesn't help your case
Paroe2 votes[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iJ07Q3nb,comment-id=000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2018-10-30T20:34:21.102+0000)
Illaoi gets obliterated by viktor. talking out of your ass doesn't help your case
Not... To my knowledge. The only time ive seen Illaoi's lose is when they play like a punani.
Moody P2 votesplat and higher has a 60% win rate into her and it only gets harder in his favor as you go up
Oleandervine3 votes
All of thme are nice champions against Viktor, because for most of them their mobility, stick, and all in wreck him. Illaoi is the only odd one out, but thats because shes a skill match up due to her Q being able to hit Vikky when HE Qs.
Ekko is very rarely played top. As is Rengar. Both are off meta picks. Hell, even Quinn is practically off meta at this point, favoring the jungle more. Swain too is fairly uncommon top, and usually seen Mid, so using another mid-laner to justify a counter to a displaced mid-laner is silly. But the point still stands that that's 5-6 champions, up to 9 if you include Jayce, Kayle, and Rumble, who don't die immediately against Viktor. That means everyone else doesn't do well against him.
Paroe1 votesEkko is very rarely played top. As is Rengar. Both are off meta picks. Hell, even Quinn is practically off meta at this point, favoring the jungle more. Swain too is fairly uncommon top, and usually seen Mid, so using another mid-laner to justify a counter to a displaced mid-laner is silly. But the point still stands that that's 5-6 champions, up to 9 if you include Jayce, Kayle, and Rumble, who don't die immediately against Viktor. That means everyone else doesn't do well against him.
And of those... Gnar, Jax, Irelia, maokai, Renekton, Pantheon, and Tryndamere all do fairly well against Viktor. Really, Any champion who can match his harass or jump on him can win pretty easily.
Elite4Runner3 votesLol the funny part about this whole thread is that these changes hardly do anything to tank Viktor.
He loses some base damage and he doesn't scale as well on the AP that he builds.
If he gets going he is still going to have massive shields on a low cooldown and a crap load of movement speed.
He just won't hit like a truck, ... more like a sedan.
D357R0Y3R2 votesIf he gets going he is still going to have massive shields on a low cooldown and a crap load of movement speed.
that doesn't matter the problem right now is that he has that AND deals as much damage as a glass canon mage, while not having any risks involved
he relies on getting Q at rank 5 and spamming it on you after nerf if he uses Q 10 times, that's a lose of 200 damage his R is losing so much damage, because it nerfs the damage on cast AND after cast.
I do not see how tank viktor will be able to be played after that patch
Elite4Runner3 votesafter nerf if he uses Q 10 times, that's a lose of 200 damage
That is still 1200 (+550% AP) damage, not counting sheen proc or any other damage.
And 10 procs with no CDR is only 40 seconds.
The real way to nerf tank Viktor is to buff AP Viktor.
Reduce the mana ratio on his shield and increase the AP ratio.
Make it more appealing for players to bring him back to mid.
Bears Dont Care1 votesthat doesn't matter the problem right now is that he has that AND deals as much damage as a glass canon mage, while not having any risks involved
No he doesnt, please dont lie. Tank viktor does not come close to the burst that evelynn or leblanc can put out. Traditional mages such as syndra and friggin annie put out more damage than tank viktor.
Lets not go about using misleading statements.
he relies on getting Q at rank 5 and spamming it on you
I thought he dealt as much as a glass cannon?
Peoole.
Homestly you guys complain about the dumbest things. Counterpick him Riven. Pantheon Olaf probably dumpsters him post 6
Paroe1 votes[{quoted}](name=Bears Dont Care,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iJ07Q3nb,comment-id=000200000001,timestamp=2018-10-30T23:18:21.309+0000)
No he doesnt, please dont lie. Tank viktor does not come close to the burst that evelynn or leblanc can put out. Traditional mages such as syndra and friggin annie put out more damage than tank viktor.
Lets not go about using misleading statements.
I thought he dealt as much as a glass cannon?
Peoole.
Homestly you guys complain about the dumbest things. Counterpick him Riven. Pantheon Olaf probably dumpsters him post 6
"Burst damage" THIS CHAMPION USES TEN ABILITIES IN 30 SECONDS SO MUCH BURST
Oleandervine2 votesThis isn't a nerf. This a fairly neutrtal shift from base damage into his ratios. This effectively means he will need to focus more on building AP items to have the same level of punch instead of building like IBG or something like that. It will likely force him out of top lane, since he won't have the raw damage output if he doesn't immediately start building AP, so he'll be much squishier than before.
D357R0Y3R3 votesTank viktor died, that's all what we wanted
Now if he maxes Q + rushes IBH+abyssal mask he will deal as much damage as Soraka LIKE HE SHOULD
Ratpie1 votesTank viktor died, that's all what we wanted
Now if he maxes Q + rushes IBH+abyssal mask he will deal as much damage as Soraka LIKE HE SHOULD
I'll take that, if we can take the same approach to some of the tanks that still do insane damage when they have ZERO offensive items built.
D357R0Y3R1 votesNice try but tanks do not win 1v1 against Swain when Swain builds glass canon Viktor? of fucking course he can
Rock MD4 votesThis isn't a nerf. This a fairly neutrtal shift from base damage into his ratios. This effectively means he will need to focus more on building AP items to have the same level of punch instead of building like IBG or something like that.
You're making one build less effective (IBG Viktor) and keeping another build at fairly neutral power (full AP). How is that not, by definition, a nerf?
Oleandervine1 votes[{quoted}](name=Rock MD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iJ07Q3nb,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2018-10-30T20:19:50.176+0000)
You're making one build less effective (IBG Viktor) and keeping another build at fairly neutral power (full AP). How is that not, by definition, a nerf?
Because it doesn't impact Viktor on the whole. It simply removes a problematic build path from viability. A nerf would have been a flat drop in the damage of those spells, with no compensation.
Rock MD3 votesBecause it doesn't impact Viktor on the whole. It simply removes a problematic build path from viability. A nerf would have been a flat drop in the damage of those spells, with no compensation.
For Viktor as a whole it also makes his early game and mid-game burst weaker and he's more reliant on AP, meaning he's more likely to fall behind and falter, which isn't good for a champion as weak from level ~4 to 2 big items as Viktor.
Getting 700 AP in the lategame and converting that into 105 total extra damage on the chaos storm and 15 damage on the Q late-game isn't nearly as impactful as losing ~30-40 damage on the Chaos Storm and roughly 7-8 base on the Q until he regains the AP at around 3 items.
So again, how is that not a nerf?
Fízz v23 votesThis is his only viable build tho, even if it buffed AP Viktor it wouldve been a nerf. Unless it just made AP Viktor broken
D357R0Y3R1 votesAP viktor got nerfed too with that R nerf Look at how much AP you need to get back the damage of ult
Tank viktor was so fucking unhealthy that you cannot nerf it without nerfing AP viktor they should put back power into his E somehow, the spell that tank viktor does not use unless he wants to proc klepto
Paroe3 votesAP viktor got nerfed too with that R nerf Look at how much AP you need to get back the damage of ult
Tank viktor was so fucking unhealthy that you cannot nerf it without nerfing AP viktor they should put back power into his E somehow, the spell that tank viktor does not use unless he wants to proc klepto
IBG. The build is IBG Viktor. He still builds 300~500AP.
D357R0Y3R1 votesNo he fucking doesn't
did you not watch FNC or afreeca?
people like you are the reason people don't understand why viktor toplane is unbalanced
Paroe1 votesNo he fucking doesn't
did you not watch FNC or afreeca?
people like you are the reason people don't understand why viktor toplane is unbalanced
Oh im sorry massa he builds 
sometimes too if he needs the MR! im sorry massa please dont whip me massa!
Get off your high horse dude. 
+ does not a tank make, unless your definition of tank is bruiser... In which case youre wrong.
Rock MD2 votesAP viktor got nerfed too with that R nerf Look at how much AP you need to get back the damage of ult
Tank viktor was so fucking unhealthy that you cannot nerf it without nerfing AP viktor they should put back power into his E somehow, the spell that tank viktor does not use unless he wants to proc klepto
E is a longer CD, longer range and AoE, which means it's a stronger poke, waveclear, and burst tool (well, it's not stronger burst but he maxes Q first he's got more DPS so E is better for a single rotation). It's exactly the thing you need to make mid Viktor good again.
The issue is Riot is so scared of him endlessly waveclearing they refuse to buff it and instead put power into his W, Q, and R.
D357R0Y3R1 votesI don't understand why any mage can waveclear endlessly, they should buff his E
this Q/R nerf is going to kill midlane viktor, anyone doing math can realise it
ez mental boom2 votesThis is good, this is good. I'm glad they're trying to make the changes neutral for mid AP Viktor
Tho I still believe top Viktor is so powerful largely because of the movement speed and shield
Ratpie1 votes[{quoted}](name=ez mental boom,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iJ07Q3nb,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-10-30T22:17:29.158+0000)
This is good, this is good. I'm glad they're trying to make the changes neutral for mid AP Viktor
Tho I still believe top Viktor is so powerful largely because of the movement speed and shield
I agree. I think the real problem was in the shields. I find this an interesting fix though, as it strives to not kill his viability completely, which most nerfs would.
Paletongue1 votesI haven't done the math yet, but won't there be a breaking point in Late game AP Viktor where he will actually deal more damage?
Elite4Runner1 votesThat is partly the goal. As I said in a different comment, the way to draw people away from Tank Viktor is to make AP Viktor look juicy again.
This does that a little, but it doesn't actually do much to decrease what makes Tank Viktor strong.