What does Ahri trade for having insane mobility, escapes and safety?

SwapShadows·Sep 14, 2015·26 votes·2,844 views

and please don't mention "she does not damage!" because that's bullshit, she does great damage especially with ludens echo.

139 Comments

franticFurballSep 14, 201511 votes

Nothing, that's why I consider her laning phase broken.

SwapShadowsSep 14, 20156 votes

{quoted}

Nothing, that's why I consider her laning phase broken.

exactly I don't understand why she gets safety, mobility and damage and trades absolutely nothing for it.

SymbolicFearOct 10, 20152 votes

She lacks in damage, and her ult which is her mobility, has a 120 second cooldown and she can choose to use it for damage or escape, she is relatively easy to deal with, it just takes some common sense and patience.

YCitizenSnipsYSep 14, 20158 votes

The Irony of a zed main complaining about another champion thats to mobile and two safe. I'll take this thread serious when Ahri can blink the distance of two screens with the push of a single button.

SwapShadowsSep 14, 20156 votes

{quoted}

The Irony of a zed main complaining about another champion thats to mobile and two safe. I'll take this thread serious when Ahri can blink the distance of two screens with the push of a single button.

The irony is that Ahri has 3 dashes, low cooldown ms boost, a charm to negate engage, a flash and a zhonyas.

So I wonder what's safer, Zed with his longer cooldown ultimate and slow moving W shadow or Ahri with her 1 million and 1 ways to escape a sticky situation.

YCitizenSnipsYSep 14, 20155 votes

Zed is manaless, has an untargetable blink with no range cap on the distance between hiim and his ult shadow. and a secondary blink on a basic ability. Zed has the safer laning phase and safer dueling.

SwapShadowsSep 14, 20154 votes

{quoted}

Zed is manaless, has an untargetable blink with no range cap on the distance between hiim and his ult shadow. and a secondary blink on a basic ability. Zed has the safer laning phase and safer dueling.

Really ignorant post tbh

it's funny because if you count all the summoner spells, abilities, items and champions that counter Zed you are left with a triple digit number.

Also I like how you say safer laning phase while his entire laning phase is him using his escape constantly for harass.

YCitizenSnipsYSep 14, 20152 votes

You make is sound like zed has to over extend to use his escape to harass. His W is 600 range and his Q is 900 for a combined 1500 ranged harass thats half the lane.

Also zed covers more ground with his Swap shadows as well as goes over walls. and the fact that there is no range limit on his ult like their is his W lets him cover more ground than Ahri once he reactivates it.

MCBiggah99Sep 14, 20155 votes

Zed too mobile and too safe? My ass, Zed has more counterplay than Ahri.

YCitizenSnipsYSep 14, 20156 votes

Both have mobility on a basic ability, Ahri is a mediocre speed boost that might get you 300-400 units, Zed's is 600 units and can allow him to travel over walls.

Both have mobility on ultimates, Zed has one untargetble Dash with 625 range and can reactivate it in 0.5 seconds to go back to the spot with no range limit which can let him go from one mid lane inner turret to the other in the 6 seconds the shadow last. Ahri's 3 dashes only have 450 range combing for 1350 units. There is also a longer delay between each cast of her ult than on Zed's at 1 second and it doesn't maker here untargetable nor is it an instantaneous Blink.

Also Zed's counter play is in the form of items and summoners, which can also work just as well against Ahri. The same Items and summoners that are used to counter Zed's all ins, such as cleanse, qss, Zhonya's can all counter ahri's all ins as well.

SwapShadowsSep 14, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Both have mobility on a basic ability, Ahri is a mediocre speed boost that might get you 300-400 units, Zed's is 600 units and can allow him to travel over walls.

Both have mobility on ultimates, Zed has one untargetble Dash with 625 range and can reactivate it in 0.5 seconds to go back to the spot with no range limit which can let him go from one mid lane inner turret to the other in the 6 seconds the shadow last. Ahri's 3 dashes only have 450 range combing for 1350 units. There is also a longer delay between each cast of her ult than on Zed's at 1 second and it doesn't maker here untargetable nor is it an instantaneous Blink.

Also Zed's counter play is in the form of items and summoners, which can also work just as well against Ahri. The same Items and summoners that are used to counter Zed's all ins, such as cleanse, qss, Zhonya's can all counter ahri's all ins as well.

trolling is fun but you shouldn't be wasting 10 minutes writing this out.

YCitizenSnipsYSep 14, 20153 votes

^hurt

SwapShadowsSep 14, 20151 votes

{quoted}

^hurt

You're trying to make a champion that gets 0 solo q and competitive play sound OP while trying to make a 54% winrate champion that has a high pickrate sound UP.

YCitizenSnipsYSep 14, 20152 votes

Man getting mad makes you really irrational, cause that not what I'm saying. You complained about the mobility and safety of Ahri as a Zed main.

What is that win rate argument, because Le Blanc, Lee Sin, and Ekko aren't doing good right now they not mobile and safe either?

Also I love that comment about solo q and pro pick rates. http://www.lolking.net/champions/ Shuffle by popularity, 16th most played champion making him the 3rd highest midlaner. And Zed has been on and off in competitive Since season 3 with the last meta that favored him being around MSI, which was only a few months ago. You act like he has never been picked

DurzakaSep 14, 20151 votes

Zed's is also tied to his poking and trading tool.

Meaning if he wants to disengage, he uses up a significant amount of his power in doing so. And his shadow has a long enough cooldown so that if he uses it as a poking/trading tool you have a big window of time to abuse the fact that it is down.

Also, the mobility on Zed's ult requires the enemy run away from the starting location, otherwise it is simply an untargetable skill you can sometimes juke stuff with. Hardly comparable to Ahri's.

Meanwhile, Ahri has a good sized MS boost on his Q, which ALSO deals a massive chunk of damage (and isnt directional, so she can use it to poke, and escape at the same time). And it has less than half of the cooldown of Zed's W.

On top of that, when it is down she isnt vulnerable because of the hard CC on her E. And her ult is a skillshot dash, meaning as long as it is up, she has an insane amount of safety. And unless she is terrible it can be used as both an engage and a disengage just like Zeds, except without requiring the enemy to run away.

Zhonya's counters all of everyones all ins, so that is pretty irrelevant.

YCitizenSnipsYSep 14, 20153 votes

Ahri's movement speed only last as long as the orb is in flight which is about 1 second usually.

And so what if Zed's initial use of ult doesn't place him very far, since he is invulnerable while doing it not like you have a lot to worry about once you land assuming you used it to counter engage. and no Zed can also lead his opponent after him once using the ult then jump a ridiculous range after 6 seconds of travel.

Ahri's ult has been 3 dashes for years and they have only gotten shorter in range, and if she is having to use them to run away she is loosing anyway so why are you complaining about winning lane.

DurzakaSep 14, 20151 votes

You realize that 1 second is enough to move the entire length of a Zed shadow right?

literally nothing else you commented deserves any response, because you clearly dont understand what youre talking about if you think Zed is more mobile that Ahri.

Zed has ONE thing on Ahri, and that is he can clear walls with his shadow every 20 seconds. And in exchange, Ahri gets hard CC which Zed doesnt have, and that is huge for an assassin to have.

And Ahri doesnt need all her ult dashes to run away. One to reposition to charm you, 2 for damage, and 3 for backing out. Still a fuck load of damage left to kill you or force you out. Using a dash defensively doesnt mean she lost. In fact, if she needs all 3 offensively, then she has more than likely lost.

YCitizenSnipsYSep 14, 20154 votes

Its a sad day when a zed main is trying to sell his champion as not mobile enough.

Let me put it into perspective for you Ahri has three gap closers on her ult, Zed has the exact same amount of gap closers in his kit, 2 blinks and 1 dash. Also the range on all three Ahri dashes is 1350(450*3). For zed his W + ult range is 1225(600 +625).

This notion that Zed is any less safe than Ahri is what is ridiculous, you keep making it sound like were comparing Ahri to Brand. This whole thread is over a Zed main that thinks another champion is too safe. When you make that complaint as a Zed main you loose all credibility.

There's plenty to complain about as far as balance goes in this game and you choose to whine that Zed isn't mobile or safe this is just getting out of hand.

DurzakaSep 15, 20154 votes

Zed main?

Ive played a grand total of like 20 games on Zed in the last year.

If you seriously think that Zed is in a better position that Ahri right now you are out of your god damn mind, and discussing it with you isnt going to get anywhere.

YCitizenSnipsYSep 15, 20154 votes

Never said he was better, Where do yall keep making this up? please quote where you saw me say that.

I said he's just as safe as Ahri because he is. He has 3 gap closers so crying that another champion is too mobile with that in his kit is just dumb. You talk about him like he is as vulnerable as Brand or Cassiopeia. Before the change in 5.2 no body considered Ahri as safe as zed with all three of his manaless gap closers.

You honestly should stop arguing because you sound ridiculous making these statements.

SwapShadowsSep 15, 20152 votes

[deleted]

YCitizenSnipsYSep 15, 20154 votes

Being called biased from a person who named there account after their main, yep trolling.

"gank Ahri pre 6," gee wonder why they never said that about Zed. Couldn't be because he already had a gap closer by then.

Keep trying to convince yourself how unsafe Zed is and how out classed his mobility is by Ahri's. Might want to stick with Zed with thinking like that would hate to see you on an immobile champion.

think that about wraps it up.

SwapShadowsSep 15, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Being called biased from a person who named there account after their main, yep trolling.

"gank Ahri pre 6," gee wonder why they never said that about Zed. Couldn't be because he already had a gap closer by then.

Keep trying to convince yourself how unsafe Zed is and how out classed his mobility is by Ahri's. Might want to stick with Zed with thinking like that would hate to see you on an immobile champion.

think that about wraps it up.

no im actually a person that has more zed and ahri games than you in all seasons.

Zed uses his gapcloser/escape to lane properly, he has to use it constantly which makes his vulnerable.

PSA picking zed himself is a unsafe decision but theres 0 risk to first picking ahri

YCitizenSnipsYSep 15, 20152 votes

what ever you say one champion with 3 gap closers, and untargetable dash and two blinks is some how not as safe as champion with three dashes all at a shorter range than the others.

what ever you say.

SwapShadowsSep 15, 20155 votes

{quoted}

what ever you say one champion with 3 gap closers, and untargetable dash and two blinks is some how not as safe as champion with three dashes all at a shorter range than the others.

what ever you say.

Here's something you would understand if you actually played Zed.

Every single dash or blink he has is telegraphed and a full out defensive combo leaves Zed doing practically nothing in a teamfight except escaping. Ahri has nothing that is telegraphed and if she uses her combo defensively she still ends up using her charm and w and Q for massive damage.

Do you notice the difference? Zed going full defensive leaves him with 0 damage and it's telegraphed meaning his escape can easily fail if people wait at his ultimate shadow and on the other hand if Ahri goes full defensive she can still do a ton of damage and land CC.

Stay uneducated please.

Stiv1234Sep 14, 20151 votes

At least Zed is melee, so you can stomp him with champs like Lissandra Swain Malzahar .

YCitizenSnipsYSep 14, 20152 votes

W Q E can wipe out an entire minion wave and his passive allows him an easier time to last hit. Also each one of those champions works just as well against Ahri so yeah

Also Ahri can't hop a wall on a basic ability

DurzakaSep 14, 20152 votes

So Zed used his entire kit, including a skill with a 20 second CD to clear a single wave.

And his escape is now on CD.

What the fuck are you doing to not take advantage of that?

WalkingInACircleSep 15, 20158 votes

Obviously she pays in damage. And range and AoE. You can deny it if you want, she deals less than Viktor Anivia Velkoz Lux from less distance. And compared to other assassins her burst is a lot less, including Zed. The only thing Ahri is really strong at is mobility.

UberAffeSep 14, 20155 votes

did you forget about the 25% damage loss she took to gain that bit of utility?

SwapShadowsSep 14, 20156 votes

{quoted}

did you forget about the 25% damage loss she took to gain that bit of utility?

bit of utility? they buffed her so hard she had to get nerfed instantly.

also keep in mind not every ahri player got DFG

UberAffeSep 14, 20152 votes

she also lost out on the bonus damage that her charm gave her.

Sire HippingtonSep 15, 20151 votes

and recived a increase in basedamages and ratios to compensate on top of the Q speedbuff...

DrNovaOct 9, 20152 votes

Nearly in significant, an her ult and e ranges got reduced

MartyrofsandOct 9, 20155 votes

Yasuo/Kalista/Leblanc/Zed/Lee Sin, these champs all have more mobility than Ahri, mainly because their mobility isn't tied to a minute+ CD. Ahri doesn't have "insane mobility" so much as she has burst mobility. When her ult is up she gets a burst of mobility that can make her hard to catch...and then she is a sitting duck. Both her W and R damage portions are not controlled by her and require her to be in very close range which get easily get her killed. Her mana costs are actually pretty high and even with Morellos you will find yourself running oom in longer fights.

Just a few things I felt needed to be said since everyone else was ignoring them.

SwapShadowsOct 9, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Yasuo/Kalista/Leblanc/Zed/Lee Sin, these champs all have more mobility than Ahri, mainly because their mobility isn't tied to a minute+ CD. Ahri doesn't have "insane mobility" so much as she has burst mobility. When her ult is up she gets a burst of mobility that can make her hard to catch...and then she is a sitting duck. Both her W and R damage portions are not controlled by her and require her to be in very close range which get easily get her killed. Her mana costs are actually pretty high and even with Morellos you will find yourself running oom in longer fights.

Just a few things I felt needed to be said since everyone else was ignoring them.

idk how to approach this stupid reply

MartyrofsandOct 9, 20155 votes

You could try facts and rational discussion, although I understand why you would avoid them considering they don't support you.

SwapShadowsOct 9, 20151 votes

{quoted}

You could try facts and rational discussion, although I understand why you would avoid them considering they don't support you.

no it's just that you have no clue on what you're saying.

You have to be a moron to think all those champions have more mobility than Ahri. The only mid that rivals her mobility is Leblanc and that's only if she makes full use of her W and R with 4 blinks combined.

You're pretty much a circlejerker that won't change your mind no matter how hard facts hit you.

MartyrofsandOct 9, 20156 votes

Facts are hitting one of us but it isn't me. Zed has both a gap closer and escape on his ult, 2 dashes, and his W, third dash which is up far more often than Ahri's ult.

Kalista has a dash every AA with zero items she will dash around 100+ times while Ahri's ult os on CD.

Yasuo just on non-canon minion waves has 6 dashes, not including one on you, which puts him at 12 dashes per minute, still not including you, compared to Ahri's 3.

Lee Sin has both his Q and W which again are both available far more often than Ahri's ult.

Numbers don't lie all of these champs will be dashing many more times and with a higher frequency than Ahri will, but feel free to maintain your ignorance you only hurt yourself.

SwapShadowsOct 9, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Facts are hitting one of us but it isn't me. Zed has both a gap closer and escape on his ult, 2 dashes, and his W, third dash which is up far more often than Ahri's ult.

Kalista has a dash every AA with zero items she will dash around 100+ times while Ahri's ult os on CD.

Yasuo just on non-canon minion waves has 6 dashes, not including one on you, which puts him at 12 dashes per minute, still not including you, compared to Ahri's 3.

Lee Sin has both his Q and W which again are both available far more often than Ahri's ult.

Numbers don't lie all of these champs will be dashing many more times and with a higher frequency than Ahri will, but feel free to maintain your ignorance you only hurt yourself.

if zed uses his entire combo to escape he will deal 0 damage as an assassin due to his lack of kiting unlike Ahri who can escape and kite AND CC Kalista has a short dash and against point and click or a slow/aadebuff she will be stopped lee sin at best has a gap closer and then only 1 dash left in a balanced 5v5 you have to be utterly retarded to say yasuo has more mobility than ahri, sorry

idk how 3 dashes, a short CD MS boost, flash, zhonyas and the ability to kite while having all these escapes is apparently fine to you....

MartyrofsandOct 9, 20155 votes

Um Zed can still use his shadows to deal a decent amount of damage after jumping out, generally doing more than half of a squishies healthy to boot.

The "point and click stops Kalista" also applies to Ahri as well, it's not a defense is a child flailing pointlessly because he has nothing valid to say.

Lee Sin tends to build a decent amount of CDR between Warrior/Locket which results in his CDs being lower and often times getting far more than just 1 dash, not to mention it isn't uncommon to see a Lee drop a ward to jump onto someone kick them away and then follow them with a Q to safety while setting up a pick for his team.

As for your "Ahri has more mobility than Ahri" delusion

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUTL3YQSfl8

1:54 shows a good example of Ahri having such a mobility "advantage" over Yasuo.

4:24 provides another good example

11:45, sure Ahri has her ult by this point and it should demonstrate just how much more mobile she is vs Yasuo...no

14:39 sure this will then I mean Yasuo had already used his ult to kill Eve so surely Ahri with her full kit can beat Yasuo at the mobility game, she even had a Bard trying to help.

I mean you keep saying stuff but the more and more I look at actual game play the less and less sense you make.

SwapShadowsOct 9, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Um Zed can still use his shadows to deal a decent amount of damage after jumping out, generally doing more than half of a squishies healthy to boot.

The "point and click stops Kalista" also applies to Ahri as well, it's not a defense is a child flailing pointlessly because he has nothing valid to say.

Lee Sin tends to build a decent amount of CDR between Warrior/Locket which results in his CDs being lower and often times getting far more than just 1 dash, not to mention it isn't uncommon to see a Lee drop a ward to jump onto someone kick them away and then follow them with a Q to safety while setting up a pick for his team.

As for your "Ahri has more mobility than Ahri" delusion

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUTL3YQSfl8

1:54 shows a good example of Ahri having such a mobility "advantage" over Yasuo.

4:24 provides another good example

11:45, sure Ahri has her ult by this point and it should demonstrate just how much more mobile she is vs Yasuo...no

14:39 sure this will then I mean Yasuo had already used his ult to kill Eve so surely Ahri with her full kit can beat Yasuo at the mobility game, she even had a Bard trying to help.

I mean you keep saying stuff but the more and more I look at actual game play the less and less sense you make.

"yasuo has more mobility than ahri when her ult is down" no shit sherlock

point and click CC is far more effective on kalista due to her dash being far shorter and not having a zhonyas either. You shound pretty trollish

MartyrofsandOct 9, 20155 votes

Um Yasuo still displayed more mobility than Ahri all through-out that game, including when Ahri's ult was up. Being able to dash 3 times < being able to dash as many times as enemies are present, especially when you are on a map filled with them.

So let's count all the point and click CC that is currently seeing high level played.

There is...

Maokai W Ryze W Annie Q, when passive is up Irelia E

Yeah that's not a lot. BTW all of this point and click CC is just as effective against Ahri as it is against Kalista, but if you want to bring up items Kalista can just as easily buy a QSS for 1250 in order to have the ability to negate point and click CC that Ahri spends 3k on and has to properly time. One of us sounds pretty trollish but much like which one of us is getting slapped in the face with facts, it isn't me.

CaythelesOct 9, 20152 votes

The question was, "What does she trade for such high mobility" Not "What champions have more mobility than her". so this is indeed a stupid reply.

She is insanely mobile and her range is quite good so no need to be going into Gankable range, Face it..... she is too mobile.

MartyrofsandOct 9, 20155 votes

You apparently felt like ignoring the "high mana costs" "does not control who 2 of her spells damage" "2 of her spells require her to be in fairly close range" "has limited mobility and is a sitting duck while her ult is down" all things she gives up in exchange for getting a burst of mobility when her ult is up.

TwigglesSep 14, 20154 votes

She's ludicrously weak to burst damage. That's my guess anyways.

SwapShadowsSep 14, 20159 votes

{quoted}

She's ludicrously weak to burst damage. That's my guess anyways.

except she can escape most all-ins in the game

TwigglesSep 14, 20154 votes

That's why I said burst damage. It's not about jumping on her face. Just mercilessly exploding her. She can easily be 100 to 0'ed by bursty champs like Veigar Viktor Chogath Akali Anivia Annie .

Especially if any of them (besides Akali of course) land their hard cc abilities. Ahri is a very safe pick, but she's certainly not unstoppable.

SwapShadowsSep 14, 20155 votes

{quoted}

That's why I said burst damage. It's not about jumping on her face. Just mercilessly exploding her. She can easily be 100 to 0'ed by bursty champs like .

Especially if any of them (besides Akali of course) land their hard cc abilities. Ahri is a very safe pick, but she's certainly not unstoppable.

except she can easily escape Viktors stun with her ultimate and viktor can't chase her because charm

Ahri can outrun akali with Q 3 ults and charm

Anivia and annie unless fed need more than 1 spell rotation to kill ahri, 9 out of 10 times she will ult away from them

Veigar is the only one that can instakill her but the problem is that Ahri completely destroys Veigar in lane so it's hard for him to even get to that point

TwigglesSep 14, 20152 votes

And what about when her ult is on cooldown or pre-6? It isn't always up, so just bait it out. Not saying it's a perfect solution, but it's one that works fairly well.