Boards›Gameplay

Riot has basically said "fuck Fiddlesticks, we don't give a shit"

Jesus is Savior··84 votes·10,786 views

Despite the fact that 87% of jungle Fiddlesticks have a fully completed jungle item in their inventory at the end of their games (source: http://www.lolking.net/champions/fiddlesticks note: percentage of games with smite, percentage of games with blue magus, and percentage of games with purple magus). And also despite the fact that those 13% who don't have a fully completed item may simply only fall into that category because they got completely stomped, and didn't have time to buy it (but had every intention of doing so)... And despite the fact that a fully completed jungle item is massively gold efficient, and that you NEED to buy the tier 2 component anyway for gold generation...

Riot has basically said "a small number of Fiddlesticks on live have had success without a completed jungle item, so fuck Fiddlesticks, he doesn't need a viable jungle item" source: http://boards.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay-feedback/JBgXR8EJ-the-removal-of-the-magus-enchantment

They're also completely ignoring the fact that he's NOT the only one affected by the deletion of magus. They're also completely ignoring the fact that every thread like this on the PBE forum is massively upvoted (and there's probably at least 20 of them). They're also completely ignoring the fact that AD champs get to choose between warrior and devourer, so there's no reason to NOT have 2 jungle items for AP champions to choose from (all it would do is increase champion diversity - *GASP* - which is their GOAL for the season).

It's not just GD they don't listen to (the overwhelming majority that don't want it deleted). It's the entire fucking community. They don't give a shit what any of us have to say. Even if ALL of us are saying it, and it makes absolute logical sense. Balance, boards, content, skins, maps.... Riot really doesn't care what we have to say at all.

tl;dr -> Overwhelming majority says "there is no reason to delete magus, keep it and add runeglaive as an option" and Riot replies "lol no".

(I will edit this if Riot Jag replies to my email - but so far it has been 48 hours and no response)

GD cross-post: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/GD/Qwnv2A75-riot-has-basically-said-fuck-fiddlesticks-we-dont-give-a-shit

139 Comments

Neo Cyrus24 votes

Fiddle has always had insane win rates, don't believe me, see for yourself - http://champion.gg/champion/FiddleSticks

The only reason he hasn't already been nerfed is partially because of the item changes coming and the fact that you all bitch so much despite the fact that your stickman has been OP for an eternity now. Every. Single. Patch. He's had among the highest win rates. Don't believe me? The link shows win rates of previous patches too, enjoy!

If he was a popular pick in either solo queue or competitive play he would have been nerfed heavily by now.

ApplyForAGrant20 votes

Fiddle mains are among some of the most spoiled and ungrateful players in this game. They are so fortunate that his kit is unsuitable for LCS so that Riot never has a reason to nerf him to below 50% SoloQ win rate. I remember back in S4 a Masters Fiddle (Nikkone I think) main complaining about Fiddle being "unplayable" when he had 52% win rate, Riot listened and buffed him one patch later to 54% win rate. Even after all that Fiddle mains still feel like they are mistreated? How about y'all main Elise for a year and experience what its REALLY like to be not given a fuck about.

LaceUp234 votes

Yeah, not too sure what buff you are talking about in Season 4. Please cite what that buff was. I remember his passive getting nerfed, his Q getting nerfed twice, his W getting nerfed twice, his E getting nerfed twice, and his R getting nerfed twice. So I would love for you to explain how he was buffed in season 4.

Add in the free trinket nerf, you avoid 100% of Jungle Fiddles damage if you see him. Now they are taking away his jungle item and nerfing Zhonyas. 2 more direct nerfs.

Also, I think you're confused as to why his win rate is pretty good. He isn't exactly played that much. In fact, he ranks 2nd for junglers on the player base average games played. This means people that play Fiddles pretty much play ONLY Fiddles. They master the champ. I mean, look at the bottom of the list. It is filled with champs like Sej and Grag, who are really strong so they attract all the LCS wannabes.

biomaster1 votes

same thing with shaco's to be honest, I agree with that trinket nerf too, least your not stealth, oracle's in red trinket seriously abusive. To be honest I hate the jungle items on Shaco so I actually take him into lane now. If they really try and shove that runeglaive on fidds (whos clearly not aa based mage) then i might take him mid lane again just cause there isn't a good jung item for him.

LaceUp232 votes

They already nerfed Fiddles out of lane, though. They made him play jungle only, and now are fuking him there as well.

ApplyForAGrant5 votes

Passive getting nerfed, his Q getting nerfed twice, his W getting nerfed twice, his E getting nerfed twice, and his R getting nerfed twice.

All in S4? Preeeetttty sure you are just talking out of your butt.

Source: http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Fiddlesticks/Background

The buff II was referring to:

4.15 Drain Tether range increased to 800 from 750, refresh rate increased to 0.25 seconds from 0.5 seconds Fixed a bug where Drain.png Drain tether would occasionally snap prematurely if an opponent moved out of a specific range within a certain window of time.

Other patches:

4.21 Dread Revised Innate: Dealing magic damage or casting Terrify.png Terrify applies Dread to enemies, reducing their magic resistance by 10 for 3 seconds. Dark Wind Will now prioritize enemies that have not yet been hit. Silence duration increased to 1.25 seconds from 1.2. Targets can now only be silenced once.

4.5 Stats Base armor increased to 15 from 11. Dread No longer applies to targets who can't see Fiddlesticks.

4.3: Terrify Now causes target to flee away from the source at reduced movement speed. (this is nerf to all fear champs, but only Fiddle received a compensation buff) Drain Cast range increased to 575 from 475.

His passive got nerfed twice, Q nerfed once but is a blanket nerf not targeted, W got BUFFED twice, E got nerfed once, R unchanged. Yes he received a bunch of nerfs, but keep in mind Fiddle started S4 with 55% win rate, then was nerfed down to 52% win rate. That's when Nikkone complained about him being unplayable, so Riot buffed Fiddle back to 54% win rate. Then comes S5 Preseason when new Magus made Fiddle OP at 56%, so Riot nerfed him again on Patch 4.21.

In fact, he ranks 2nd for junglers on the player base average games played. This means people that play Fiddles pretty much play ONLY Fiddles.

That's a good point, until you take a look at his win rate vs games played graphs. http://champion.gg/champion/FiddleSticks. Games 1-5: 50% win rate. Games 125+: 57% win rate. Fiddle is actually one of the few champions with such a linear relationship, indicating that he is a high skillcap champion. Most other high skillcap champions however, start off with ~45% win rate before going up as the player becomes more experienced. Fiddle start off at ~50% and goes up to 57%. That's pretty insane. I think these are enough evidence that Fiddle is waayyy above average in the jungle.

magic pole5 votes

lol so you mained Elise when she was broken OP. fiddle never crowded out other picks the way Elise did.

"riot never has a reason to nerf him", lmao

Anidan2 votes

We'll ignore the era of the 3 second Fear that pushed out a lot of supports while he was down there, right? He has crowded out picks before. It was actually largely the same way Elise did it - being completely overbearing to people that couldn't handle him. He'd be a top tier pick right now if there was a jungle item that was actually great for him.

Not saying he needs nerfs or anything, but uh, to say he never crowded out picks like Elise is a lie.

Makra3 votes

{quoted} He'd be a top tier pick right now if there was a jungle item that was actually great for him.

Umm... Magus IS a great jungle item for him. And yet you hardly see him.

THE RlVER KlNG1 votes

Yeah, must be hard to have one of the most overloaded kits in the game with tools for any situation or lane. Boohoo.

Maikal5 votes

lol as if win rates = OP or not It's like you completely fucking ignore the rest of the champions with high win rates. Malzahar? Zilean? Heimerdinger? Fucking Galio? Are they all OP too? There's nothing that needs to be said about that... lol

Fiddlesticks is weak to invades, very vulnerable to counterganks early, has mana problems, his W snares himself, he gets fucked by knockbacks, and he's pretty useless without his ultimate and when behind since he is item dependent and needs vision control to use his ult. He is by no means top tier in the slightest.

Plus why the fuck are they buffing the junglers that are top tier? Evelynn, Nidalee, Hell Elise might be top tier if her buffs go through combined with rune glaive. I really hope runeglaive doesn't bring back AP Gragas and make him even more broken than he already is. But he has a 50% win rate, balanced right! Oh what he has a 68% ban rate? Hmm.

Zahz15 votes

I agree with riot. F fiddlesticks

Blue Moon Wolf9 votes

I seem to have little pity for a champ who has a silence that can bounce around and damage you at the same time. at least soraka has the decency to keep the silence to an easy to avoid circle on the ground.

LICENSED HOOKER5 votes

im sorry, you failed to mention the fking range on his silence. I want him to die, fuck fiddle this guy is so op late game 1v1 hell just fear and drain u then silence and repeat...

YumaS2Astral2 votes

His drain is only useful during the early game, due to the fact that he snares himself when using it. At mid/late it is only really useful to "assassinate" someone during the ultimate. It is not useful for dueling due to Fiddlestick's squishiness.

For Carthage9 votes

To be completely honest... I don't give a shit about Fiddlesticks, either.

May be because he pisses me off, but still. You know.

Slamurai Jack8 votes

Since Fiddlesticks massively outshines all the other AP junglers atm, I think he could stand to be taken down a peg.

Feathermane5 votes

Did they delete Diana?

Slamurai Jack6 votes

{quoted}

Did they delete Diana?

I wouldn't really call Diana a jungler when she functions far better in a solo lane.

Himaru2 votes

I have seen Diana destroy the jungle. Her passive makes her an extremely fast camp clearer and once she hits six any lane she chooses is pretty much done for lol.

Llanite7 votes

It's a nerf. Deal with it.

LoLKiru6 votes

Runeglaive is good on a select few people, pretty meh to terrible on everyone else.

I feel it would probably be SIGNIFICANTLY better if instead of spellblade, it boosted the power of the next spell by a certain amount (scaling off of large monster kills maybe? A flat base that scales with level and a certain amount of AP would work too)

Mana return could just be an onhit proc with a cooldown (think Xerath's passive except it only works on monsters).

On a side note, I believe it was said they'll probably buff fiddlesticks if this ends up hurting him (which it obviously will)

Edit: it could also use an Ap boost to at least 60, giving it all 3 of those things might be a bit strong in practice, but very few mages can jungle right now, so giving them all the help they can get and going from there is probably the best way to go about this.

Rozzeta7 votes

On a side note, I believe it was said they'll probably buff fiddlesticks if this ends up hurting him (which it obviously will)

Uh... Remember when they said they'd buff Veigar for the removal of DFG?

Clockwork Madoka6 votes

I agree Keep Magus, this change hurts AP evelynn a wee bit, considering her mana regen is already pretty great due to her passive (2% a second!)

Jesus is Savior2 votes

{quoted}

I agree Keep Magus, this change hurts AP evelynn a wee bit, considering her mana regen is already pretty great due to her passive (2% a second!)

It kind of hurts her a lot. I won't even be able to play her (and maintain my current rank) until 2 patches from now, when they do the AP item rework and buff nashors + rylai.

Clockwork Madoka2 votes

[{quoted}](name=UdyrWwYi Jg ONLY,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iGPx2Tef,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2015-06-20T02:03:44.058+0000)

It kind of hurts her a lot. I won't even be able to play her (and maintain my current rank) until 2 patches from now, when they do the AP item rework and buff nashors + rylai.

You could go AD, she scales fairly well either way...

But I always liked AP evelynn, because the utility was a bit greater.

Kuroi863 votes

You mean necessary after her nerf.

item 3116

Himaru4 votes

i agree. I believe they should keep Magus and just add Runeglaive as another choice for AP junglers. its not just AP Eve who takes the blow. Elise Malphite and Zac are also taking a blow here.

Yorukin6 votes

Am I the only one who's noticed that pretty much every single one of these boards has only been about how badly it'll hurt Fiddlesticks? Never mind that most mages are only incapable of jungling efficiently because of a combination of a rough first clear and mana gating. Fiddlesticks may not have the first problem due to the sheer power of an uninterrupted Drain, but he still hogs the blue buff, which kinda sucks if your midlaner also needs it. Runeglaive may have iffy raw stats, but an AoE Spellblade proc that comes with a mana refill is a lot more powerful than most people realize. Any mage with some way to reliably avoid damage, be it through pets, CC, shields, or built-in sustain, will be able to pick up a Runeglaive and actually jungle, just so long as they can make it through their first clear or two (a hurdle more easily jumped with a good leash on Gromp). Granted, some will be better at it than others (Anivia, for example, still guzzles up mana at an absurd pace), but this can open the floodgates for jungle mages, at least for the first few days where people experiment. Time will tell who the best ones will be.

As for keeping Magus... why? The only champion in the entire game who prefers it to Runeglaive is Fiddlesticks, who's currently one of two AP junglers that are actually worth using (the other being Nidalee, who can in fact make better use of Runeglaive).

Widder883 votes

{quoted}

As for keeping Magus... why? The only champion in the entire game who prefers it to Runeglaive is Fiddlesticks, who's currently one of two AP junglers that are actually worth using (the other being Nidalee, who can in fact make better use of Runeglaive).

We didn't test it yet. I don't know if I am prefer Runeglaive over Magus on Evelynn. And Evelynn is probably one of the best Sheen users. But Magus is just really strong. Maybe Runeglaive is better in the late game but not in the early game. I have 61% win rate with AP Eve with Magus. You want to tell me that it isn't worth?

magic pole5 votes

only fiddle prefers it? lmao speak for yourself. 20% cdr is massive and i build it on gragas all the time. Alistar Chogath Morgana Fizz Teemo Zac yes these are all junglers i have played and won with using magus.

Jesus is Savior4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Annie Dark Child,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iGPx2Tef,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-06-20T01:49:16.367+0000)

That replacement mage item is retarded. I'll be getting the main jungle item but skipping the enchant on pretty much all mages now. I only want good AP and CDR.

You will also end up massively behind compared to before, because you're sinking 850 gold into a smite/gold generation item that provides zero stats, and you don't get to sink 1400 gold (2250 total including smite item) into magus anymore to compensate, which itself provides 2373 gold worth of stats, giving you a needed powerspike in the jungle.

That's why it's dumb - you MASSIVELY lose out on stats by not completing your jungle item. And now you're going to be FORCED to do it on some mages.

{quoted}

On a side note, I believe it was said they'll probably buff fiddlesticks if this ends up hurting him (which it obviously will)

I haven't seen this said anywhere (was it Reddit? I don't check that). And he's not the only mage this will affect. I play AP Eve, and I'm going to have to completely change how I play her to compensate for this new item (runes, build order, final build) because she requires the full AP ratio from Lich Bane in her final build. I pretty much won't be able to play her at all until 2 patches from now when they do the AP item rework.

LoLKiru2 votes

[{quoted}](name=UdyrWwYi Jg ONLY,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iGPx2Tef,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2015-06-20T02:02:17.450+0000)

I haven't seen this said anywhere (was it Reddit? I don't check that). And he's not the only mage this will affect. I play AP Eve, and I'm going to have to completely change how I play her to compensate for this new item (runes, build order, final build) because she requires the full AP ratio from Lich Bane in her final build. I pretty much won't be able to play her at all until 2 patches from now when they do the AP item rework.

I believe it was on Reddit.

I'd like to hear your opinion on my suggestion in my original post if you don't mind (it doesn't really do anything sadly, its not like Riot will change it, but amuse me if you would)

Jesus is Savior5 votes

{quoted}

I believe it was on Reddit.

I'd like to hear your opinion on my suggestion in my original post if you don't mind (it doesn't really do anything sadly, its not like Riot will change it, but amuse me if you would)

They added another "AP ratio damage item" similar to Lich Bane and Nashor's tooth recently. Luden's Echo item 3285 . It almost broke the game.

Tbh I don't think we need another similar item to stack with all the rest. Runeglaive is great, it's a really nice idea, and they are taking it in the right direction. But it shouldn't replace magus, it should exist alongside it, because the 2 items fill very different niches for different champions.

Jesus is Savior3 votes

{quoted}

You could go AD, she scales fairly well either way...

But I always liked AP evelynn, because the utility was a bit greater.

I don't want to change my Eve build and playstyle significantly like I have already done like a billion times.

I do full AP glass cannon in like... season 3? E gets changed to physical damage -> AP Eve isn't even viable anymore until they make the change to E that makes it apply on-hits.

I did hybrid triforce ludens bruiser all the way to gold this season (and a similar but different build in season 4 before ludens existed), and was heavily reliant on movespeed to not die with only 2 defensive items -> W gets nerfed and gets the flat movespeed removed -> that build no longer works and gets me killed because I can't catch people or escape from them without building slowing items.

I switch to full AP this season -> no longer reliant on movespeed; instead now reliant on insta-killing anyone who gets into range instead of being able to stick to them or being able to run away -> have much success with it, and even figure out a way to make it work with a physical E that doesn't scale with magic pen (lich bane, nashors, ludens....) -> and now they want to ruin it and make me change the way I play Eve... AGAIN... They can't just leave her alone.

No, sorry, I'm sick of it. If Riot makes AP jungle Eve unviable, I'm just gonna quit. I'm not completely changing my playstyle again. A minor change to compensate for the new item? Okay, fine, but only because Rylai's is getting buffed, so I won't feel so bad when I sell the jungle item in my final build and lose my ability to smite champions. But a full switch to AD? No ty.

ImHerVoice1 votes

Evelynn item 3709 item 3110 item 3102 item 3111 item 3151 item 3153

72% winrate with this build with hundreds of evelynn games played this season and 10s of thousands of games played since her release.

Jesus is Savior6 votes

{quoted}

Evelynn item 3709 item 3110 item 3102 item 3111 item 3151 item 3153

72% winrate with this build with hundreds of evelynn games played this season and 10s of thousands of games played since her release.

{quoted}

Evelynn item 3709 item 3110 item 3102 item 3111 item 3151 item 3153

72% winrate with this build with hundreds of evelynn games played this season and 10s of thousands of games played since her release.

You mean with cinderhulk, the item that breaks her passive when she walks through minions?

Widder881 votes

[{quoted}](name=UdyrWwYi Jg ONLY,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iGPx2Tef,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2015-06-20T02:31:26.735+0000)

I switch to full AP this season -> no longer reliant on movespeed; instead now reliant on insta-killing anyone who gets into range instead of being able to stick to them or being able to run away -> have much success with it, and even figure out a way to make it work with a physical E that doesn't scale with magic pen (lich bane, nashors, ludens....) -> and now they want to ruin it and make me change the way I play Eve... AGAIN... They can't just leave her alone.

E with Lich bane, Nashors Tooth only works if you buy high AP too. E has 190% AP scaling with it. It has 230 base damage, Lich bane does 85 base damage at Level 18 and Nashors 30. Lich bane+Nashors is 140 AP. This means with just Lich bane + Nashors E does 611 damage. Q does 177 damage.

If you buy Rabadons+Zhonyas instead, you have 312 AP, and E has a 110% AP scaling with just the mastery arcane blade. Means you do 573 damage with E. But you Q does 272! Q benefits way more than E is hurt.

That is why I like to buy flat AP first, and than AP scaling items on top of it.

And because flat AP works for Eve AP Eve was even viable before the on hit buff to E.

No, sorry, I'm sick of it. If Riot makes AP jungle Eve unviable, I'm just gonna quit.

Other AP jungle will be hurt even more than Eve (because Eve is one of the best sheen users), so Runeglaive will be buffed, if it is bad.

I play Eve in Mid and Top too, and I often buy Fiendish codex + Sheen first. That is damn close to Runeglaive, so probably Runeglaive will be not too bad.

Jesus is Savior1 votes

{quoted}

E with Lich bane, Nashors Tooth only works if you buy high AP too. E has 190% AP scaling with it. It has 230 base damage, Lich bane does 85 base damage at Level 18 and Nashors 30. Lich bane+Nashors is 140 AP. This means with just Lich bane + Nashors E does 611 damage. Q does 177 damage.

If you buy Rabadons+Zhonyas instead, you have 312 AP, and E has a 110% AP scaling with just the mastery arcane blade. Means you do 573 damage with E. But you Q does 272! Q benefits way more than E is hurt.

That is why I like to buy flat AP first, and than AP scaling items on top of it.

And because flat AP works for Eve AP Eve was even viable before the on hit buff to E.

Other AP jungle will be hurt even more than Eve (because Eve is one of the best sheen users), so Runeglaive will be buffed, if it is bad.

I play Eve in Mid and Top too, and I often buy Fiendish codex + Sheen first. That is damn close to Runeglaive, so probably Runeglaive will be not too bad.

{quoted}

E with Lich bane, Nashors Tooth only works if you buy high AP too. E has 190% AP scaling with it. It has 230 base damage, Lich bane does 85 base damage at Level 18 and Nashors 30. Lich bane+Nashors is 140 AP. This means with just Lich bane + Nashors E does 611 damage. Q does 177 damage.

If you buy Rabadons+Zhonyas instead, you have 312 AP, and E has a 110% AP scaling with just the mastery arcane blade. Means you do 573 damage with E. But you Q does 272! Q benefits way more than E is hurt.

That is why I like to buy flat AP first, and than AP scaling items on top of it.

And because flat AP works for Eve AP Eve was even viable before the on hit buff to E.

Other AP jungle will be hurt even more than Eve (because Eve is one of the best sheen users), so Runeglaive will be buffed, if it is bad.

I play Eve in Mid and Top too, and I often buy Fiendish codex + Sheen first. That is damn close to Runeglaive, so probably Runeglaive will be not too bad.

My current build order is magus -> deathcap -> lich bane -> void staff/nashors. Then I sell boots for Ludens if the game really won't end.

Widder881 votes

[{quoted}](name=UdyrWwYi Jg ONLY,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iGPx2Tef,comment-id=000a00010000,timestamp=2015-06-20T14:08:49.938+0000)

My current build order is magus -> deathcap -> lich bane -> void staff/nashors. Then I sell boots for Ludens if the game really won't end.

Good build. Lets compare that with Runeglaive -> Deathcap -> Ludens/Zhonyas at all stages:

Magus vs. Runeglaive:

Magus: Q: +44, E: +88 Runeglaive: Q: +22, E: +108 (Lvl 9)

Magus+Deathcap vs. Runeglaive+Deathcap:

Magus+DC: Q: +143, E: +286 Runeglaive+DC: Q: +114, E: +357 (Lvl 12)

Magus+Deathcap+Lich Bane vs. Runeglaive+Deathcap+Ludens

Magus+DC+Lich Bane: Q: +200, E: +667 (Lvl 15) Runeglaive+DC+Ludens: Q: +200 E: +595 (Lvl 15), plus Ludens damage/Zhonyas defense/utility

I don't know.

Jesus is Savior2 votes

{quoted}

Good build. Lets compare that with Runeglaive -> Deathcap -> Ludens/Zhonyas at all stages:

Magus vs. Runeglaive:

Magus: Q: +44, E: +88 Runeglaive: Q: +22, E: +108 (Lvl 9)

Magus+Deathcap vs. Runeglaive+Deathcap:

Magus+DC: Q: +143, E: +286 Runeglaive+DC: Q: +114, E: +357 (Lvl 12)

Magus+Deathcap+Lich Bane vs. Runeglaive+Deathcap+Ludens

Magus+DC+Lich Bane: Q: +200, E: +667 (Lvl 15) Runeglaive+DC+Ludens: Q: +200 E: +595 (Lvl 15), plus Ludens damage/Zhonyas defense/utility

I don't know.

Well I mean, Eve's builds aren't static. I normally get a sheen before deathcap unless I'm super ahead. And runeglaive (with no other items) does just as much spellblade damage as a regular sheen.

And my new build order (2 patches from now) is going to be:

runeglaive -> deathcap -> nashors (buffed) ->ludens/void staff -> sell boots and jungle item for lich bane and rylai (buffed)

But I'm going to be pretty much completely fucked for an entire patch cycle, until the AP item rework.

And even if your math is right (I haven't checked), you're forgetting that everyone gets armor per level, and generally has more armor than MR, even if they don't buy any MR items. E's damage is going to be massively reduced compared to Q and spellblade. Random example I pulled from the wiki: level 15 Ashe. 66 armor, 30 MR. Spellblade can also be proc'd more than once per fight. Luden's can't (it used to - not anymore).

I'm basically only going to be okay because of the nashor buff (nashors + reduced runeglaive spellblade is a 60% AP ratio - slightly better than a lich bane on its own). But my early-game powerspike is gone now (runeglaive, with no other AP items, is basically a glorified sheen). And my late-game powerspike isn't going to flow as well anymore (once I get my void staff, my next big powerspike isn't going to be until I am literally full build, with no jungle item and no boots).

Widder881 votes

[{quoted}](name=UdyrWwYi Jg ONLY,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iGPx2Tef,comment-id=000a0001000000000000,timestamp=2015-06-20T15:43:43.419+0000) And even if your math is right (I haven't checked), you're forgetting that everyone gets armor per level, and generally has more armor than MR, even if they don't buy any MR items. E's damage is going to be massively reduced compared to Q and spellblade.

Runeglaives converts a normal AA into magic damage and applys the bonus damage. Maybe it converts the first E strike, which applys sheen, into magic damage too. I don't know.

After the AP item change, Liandries will maybe be good for Eve again too. Problem of the item was that Eve deals hybrid damage and want flat AP, but Liandries AP was low and had only magic pen. If it has 80 AP now, and Runeglaive converts some physical damage into magical, it is maybe a strong damage item again. Maybe combined with Rylais, which will give Eve the ability to permaslow for 40%, what seems to be just broken.

Jesus is Savior2 votes

{quoted}

Runeglaives converts a normal AA into magic damage and applys the bonus damage. Maybe it converts the first E strike, which applys sheen, into magic damage too. I don't know.

No, it wouldn't. E will always be 100% physical. Only the spellblade will be magic.

Widder881 votes

[{quoted}](name=UdyrWwYi Jg ONLY,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iGPx2Tef,comment-id=000a000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-06-20T17:04:31.890+0000)

No, it wouldn't. E will always be 100% physical. Only the spellblade will be magic.

It should be converted:

Grants UNIQUE PASSIVE - SPELLBLADE: After using an ability, your next basic attack is converted to deal magic damage plus 75% base AD (+30% AP) bonus damage in an area around the target. (1.5 second cooldown). Versus monsters, Spellblade will also restore 8% of your missing mana.

E applys on hit effects. Part of the on hit effect is, that the attack is converted to magic damage.

I watched a video, I am not sure, but there is a 251 purple (magic) damage proc at 23:08, that should be one E strike. Seems like that actually one E strike is modified to magic damage as it should be. But I have to test it myself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvGlFBJUZVs&feature=youtu.be#t=23m07s

Jesus is Savior2 votes

{quoted}

No, it wouldn't. E will always be 100% physical. Only the spellblade will be magic.

It should be converted:

E applys on hit effects. Part of the on hit effect is, that the attack is converted to magic damage.

I watched a video, I am not sure, but there is a 251 purple (magic) damage proc at 23:08, that should be one E strike. Seems like that actually one E strike is modified to magic damage as it should be. But I have to test it myself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvGlFBJUZVs&feature=youtu.be#t=23m07s

Oh it's different than Lich Bane then? =\

I still don't think losing the 20% AP ratio is worth it (That's around 180 damage at full build), but IDK

Widder881 votes

[{quoted}](name=UdyrWwYi Jg ONLY,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iGPx2Tef,comment-id=000a00010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-06-20T19:46:51.194+0000)

Oh it's different than Lich Bane then? =\

I still don't think losing the 20% AP ratio is worth it (That's around 180 damage at full build), but IDK

I tested it on EUNE. Runeglaive converts one E strike into magic damage as expected. E with Runeglaive does now more magic damage than physical (115 + 90% AP + 75% base AD vs. 115 + 50% AP). Some Autoattacks do now magic damage too. I think AP Eve does now 5/6 magic damage instead of 2/3. This could be really useful later in the game with new Liandries and Void staff in 5.13. And yes, Lich bane works different. Lich bane is still good, but way more difficult to get.

Jesus is Savior1 votes

{quoted}

I tested it on EUNE. Runeglaive converts one E strike into magic damage as expected. E with Runeglaive does now more magic damage than physical (115 + 90% AP + 75% base AD vs. 115 + 50% AP). Some Autoattacks do now magic damage too. I think AP Eve does now 5/6 magic damage instead of 2/3. This could be really useful later in the game with new Liandries and Void staff in 5.13. And yes, Lich bane works different. Lich bane is still good, but way more difficult to get.

Can you test it with Nashor's Tooth for me?

I need to know if it will proc on-hit effects (no one will test it for me).

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/bug-report/EXEGld36-gameplay-can-someone-test-a-potential-runeglaive-bug-for-me-i-dont-have-pbe-access

If not, that's fine I guess. Patch is live in a few hours.

Widder881 votes

E and AAs proc Runeglaive and on hit effects at the same time. I am 100% sure for AAs and 98% for E (There are many numbers and the calculation is difficult with masteries, different procs etc. It did 2 hp more damage than calculated.).

Jesus is Savior1 votes

{quoted}

E and AAs proc Runeglaive and on hit effects at the same time. I am 100% sure for AAs and 98% for E (There are many numbers and the calculation is difficult with masteries, different procs etc. It did 2 hp more damage than calculated.).

I have tested and confirmed it on live. Thanks for the help :). The 2 hp is just rounding I guess (eg: it probably adds all the non-rounded numbers together and THEN rounds them, like if your nashors is 35.4 and the client displays 35, and your spellblade is 50.4 but the client displays 50, those two 0.4s will add 1 to the total when they get added together into one big number)

I have updated my thread

Silents4293 votes

tl;dr -> Overwhelming majority says "there is no reason to delete magus, keep it and add runeglaive as an option" and Riot replies "lol no".

lol this board thinks it's the overwhelming majority.

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