Ekko is about 75% of the time played as a tank

JavelinJoe··24 votes·1,596 views

Yet, he was released as a "Skirmishing Assassin" who was built around high AP scaling, in and out fighting mechanics, and a burst based damaging kit. Look at his champion spotlight, no where is it showing him going full tank. I am curious as to how has this was allowed to become the accepted worse play style? Now Ekko is played as a full tank with maybe 1 - 2 damaging items at most, and usually not very high AP scaling ones to boot. item 3078 actually has 0 AP. Usually he only grabs either item 3157 item 3001 item 3152 item 3027 or item 1082 if he wants an actual AP item. None of which (besides maybe item 3027) are considered high AP items. Usually those are taken more for their other stats than with whatever AP they give.

Now, don't misunderstand me. I am not QQ about tank Ekko, I am asking how a proposed "Skirmishing Assassin" ended up becoming one of the most played tanks, a complete opposite role to what was intended. Why was this allowed to happen? Shouldn't RIOT try and keep their intended champion's role to be maintained? He clearly is intended to be an assassin (or so the client says) with a secondary being a fighter. So why is it permitted to be the other way around? Shouldn't a champions primary role be their actual primary play style?

If Ekko is ever to return to being a primarily played assassin, her is my suggestion as to how to get him there. It is quite simple actually, **remove his passive % missing health base damage on his W, or in other words make it entirely scaling. Instead of 3% (+1% per 33 AP), make it 1%/2%/3%/4%/5% AP based on the abilities rank. **

Having 3% missing health damage (when target is under 30% max health) at rank 1 as a base is pretty good, especially since it also has +1% per 33 AP, in which runes and a item 1056 or item 1082 can easily give you a free 1% right off the bat. This is a god send for any champions who does not wish to build damage based items/builds. And with no incentive to put any more ranks into it to boost the passive, Ekko can rank up his Q and E freely, without worrying about his executing damage on his W falling off. Also having 150% AP scaling on the shield is pretty nice. So much free AP scaling makes this ability OK to leave at rank 1 until its the last ability to be ranked up.

51 Comments

Matezoide15 votes

This is what happens when you give a champion the mobility of an assassin, the DPS of a bruiser and the AoE, CC, base damage and slows of a tank

JavelinJoe2 votes

Its the free damage that is the issue, with all these neo-tank champions. Fizz, Yasuo, Akali (for a time), Yi (until nerfs). Their kits are loaded with free damage so items that give damage become optional to them. And more often than not they end up not getting them. Why start with a base 50% reward for 50% risk (the ideal default ratio) and get items for 90% reward for 80% risk, when getting items for 75% reward for 30% risk is the far better option?

Livin like Riven1 votes

My friend mains Yi and plays PD Frozen Mallet Cleaver Yi Top and it works really well, I don't even play Yi and I still do just fine on it.

Matezoide1 votes

tbh Bruiser Yi has always been better than sheer glass cannon. Yi really doesnt need 6 damage items to delete people. Always found him to be a bit on the weak side as a laner though.

Just something like a Black Cleaver into bruiser items is enough for him to destroy people pretty badly in the mid-game, and close the match before people start to survive him, while glass cannon is too reliant on snowballing.

Ulquiorra9951 votes

But likes of Akali or Yi lack team-wide utility and thus can be balanced by numerical changes like reduced bases and increased scaling. Abominations like Ekko, however, can not. The sooner Rito realises that only way to balance him is to start removing parts of his kit the better.

LordGeovanni3 votes

Lets make a bruiser and call him and assassin. Ekko

LordGeovanni1 votes

i guess he is an assassin with all that shit ton of mobility though

CeexSett7 votes

Did you just reply to yourself?

IcyPepper2 votes

All this discussion about Ekko must've caused a singularity.

CeexSett2 votes

He went in back in time to comment but he met his past himself who had already commented so he replied. It's technically not replying to yourself if it is a 4-second-in-the-past yourself, right?

IcyPepper2 votes

Well, depends if we're talking about time travel or philosophy, and what temporal interpretation we're going off of.

If we're speaking of the many-worlds interpretation, then no he is not commenting to himself.

It could be a stable time loop as well, in which case we're only in one "world." Then he is indeed replying to himself.

He may have caused a paradox, however, in which case we could be in a tangent universe doomed to loop until the paradox is solved through a butterfly effect to then collapse so the main universe can continue onward. In which case the semantics doesn't matter because we're already fucked.

CeexSett2 votes

In the case of many worlds interpretation, there is really nothing to say.

In the time loop state, things get juicy. The loop means he was already predicted to comment twice, and I was predicted to respond to it, and you were predcited to respond to me, etc. The only way to break the loop is one of us travelling back to when he made the first comment and stop him from doing it. Then the other asnwers will disappear. However, if there was no comment to start with, he couldn't have made us reply, so there would be no iniciative for us to stop him, making us unable to do it, and repeating the loop from the begginning. That would be a paradox as well.

Time travel I love it.

IcyPepper1 votes

No wonder Rick is driven to drink.

Science is crazy.

LordGeovanni1 votes

Yes wanted to make another popint but not in the same comment

notmebuthim3 votes

His passive is being abused pretty heavily. item 3078 then he can proc this super easy. Pretty mobile with 40-45% cdr, fat shield, and a duo over ult, nasty movement speed from passive and a lot of slows. Plus okay ap scaling. I dont think he is busted, he just does everything well.

cinomenapplebae1 votes

I really hate when a Ekko builds item 3078 into tank with 0 ap and can be sticky as hell. The same goes for the blue Ezreal build, Over the time it has just became the "normal" build for him since everyone got used to it.

DoktorKaiser1 votes

Only that Ezreal actually has to hit skillshots to constantly slow you and he is still squishy as every ADC, while Ekko just has to spawm q+e and if he wishes w, but I dont really thing he even needs that slow, and even if you do turn on him, he presses r for free getaway+heal... and yeah, he is a tank so gl fighting that.

GayFluffyUnicorn1 votes

Ekko Q is harder to hit than ez Q. Ez still has his E to jump around AND he can just autoattack you if he failed his Q. Both are cancer in terms of mobility and how he can stick to you

Astôlfo1 votes

Because he doesn't have any free fast burst like a normal assassin. His kit literally encourages extended dueling. And he has CC all on delayed timer and/or prerequisite restrictions. So ofc he'd build bruiser.

Fervor and Triforce are the bigger problems. Ekko just exemplifies it.

JavelinJoe1 votes

He was given very high ratios to counter the lack of excessive burst. But he was made with that intention, to be able to dive in and finish off targets or chunk others. It is why he has so many escapes, movement speed buffs, and a shield.

Astôlfo2 votes

Except that's nothing like an assassin. He's closer to a fighter/skirmisher/diver/whatever Riot calls it. Him trying to go AP would be godawful because of how inconsistent the damage is, lack of near 100-0 instant burst, how squishy it makes him for a fighter-type ability set, etc etc.

JavelinJoe3 votes

You were not here were you when full AP Ekko was one of the most broken champs in the game were you. Trust me, he has the burst.

Matezoide1 votes

Like hell he doesnt have 100-0 burst when building full AP.

I know he only builds tank now, but did everyone forget how high his damage was on Release? And they have increased his rations/lowered bases since then.

CeexSett1 votes

Oh he does have damage.

E (item 3100 Q hit. Thats enough to one shot a squishy.

Astôlfo1 votes

Except that's more of the Sheen proc and less of his own kit. And with E-auto-Q, that gives the triple-hit for the passive proc. And the target is squishy anyways.

You could apply the same logic for anyone who can use Sheen + some multi-hit passive.

CeexSett1 votes

His kit was created to lack obvious damage in the spells by themselves, but to complementarized by items and the 2 passives. He only has 2 reliable damage spells, so that is why he has 2 damage passives and a reliance on lich bane. They could make his E just a dash and/or a blink and move the damage to other things, but by making it an auto attack they made him reliable on sheen items.

Very Hard Engage1 votes

its almost like melee... but ap... is by design bad. and dependent on items at all to function.

Meep Man2 votes

Rumble and Gragas discredit this, but AP Melee is harder to balance

Very Hard Engage1 votes

those champs rely on their autos do they?

Livin like Riven1 votes

Full AP Diana is far better than tank Diana.

Very Hard Engage2 votes

correct, because deleting a target with viable ap ratios is better than kiting a target and needing a mix of autos and abilities.

then again she isn't auto attack reliant, she has burst without her passive, but it is a nice bonus

Auz the Ripper1 votes

She is pretty reliant on auto attacks to finish off targets for most of the game though. Her highest win rate build even has nashor's tooth as the second item built.

RogueWill2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Inept Maverick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iEzVjo8V,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2016-09-04T00:09:11.514+0000)

Rumble and Gragas discredit this, but AP Melee is harder to balance

Rumble is far from balance. He still gets a lot of bans on Pro plays since he can work from behind quite well

RogueWill1 votes

At this point he probably should be balanced around him being a tank and kept the AP assassin skirmisher as a viable yet niche build.

I mean just look at Diana which is currently balanced around being a AP assassin from mid lane instead of a mage/figther Jungler. She can still jungle but Mid works better for her

Rıots Bad Client1 votes

Yea, I had an Ap Ekko in one of my recent games and my Jung whom I belive was a Graves kept harassing the dude for playing AP and not Tank. Something along the lines of "Ap Ekko is garbage, blah blah".

Props to people who play play AP ekko.

łnśane1 votes

{quoted}

Yea, I had an Ap Ekko in one of my recent games and my Jung whom I belive was a Graves kept harassing the dude for playing AP and not Tank. Something along the lines of "Ap Ekko is garbage, blah blah".

Props to people who play play AP ekko.

This is one reason I play tank Ekko in the jungle instead of my normal build. People would bully me into building it, and since I don't want to get tilted because they won't shut up, or I don't want them to troll; I just go with it.

TwinkiePro1 votes

Or, y'know, mute em.

MunchCrunchLunch1 votes

hes a worse version of diana as ap.

diana is tankier going ap. and she also has. hella. more burst. hella more.

Stars Shaper1 votes

Make his base damage 1 for all the skills. No, not joking.

lilpokfluf1 votes

These posts are pointless, he's not getting any real nerfs until the project skin hype goes down and people stop spending money on his new skin

Mandang01 votes

To be fair "skirmishing assassin" is a bit of an oxymoron when you discuss assassins as burst champs. I don't think Ekko was intended to be a burst champ, and I can understand how focusing a champ on an extended trading pattern will push them to defensive builds. I just think Ekko's overtuned in general, and I think the Sheen upgrades are a bit too strong atm.

JavelinJoe1 votes

He was actually intended for full AP (standard mid lane build) on release. But people realized that tank was far superior in like week 3 of his release.

aqours fanboy1 votes

The 25% that use Ekko right laugh as we run around the map taking out the squishies.

tbh let's just tag a Rioter with some actual good nerfs like increasing the CD in his passive, and making his slows scale of AP and lowering that scale so Tank Ekko is dead but AP Ekko can still be relevant.

A little Peepo1 votes

Regardless if riot nerfed the % missing he would still be played as a tank. Ekko has way too much CC and durability with mobility and pretty high base damages. In order to kill tankko they will need to remove the stun on his W already and increase his ratios while nerfing that obnoxious base damage on his ult.

Hige1 votes

While Ekko's kit is a bit at fault (that much healing for free...) the defensive items are much more of a problem, I think a Rioter stated that they wanted to implement Defense scaling methods on tanks and whatnot, meaning that defensive items will get nerfed on their bases because tanks will be able to utilize them multiplicatively while the likes of Ekko will find very little success with them.

As for "When"... only time will tell.

TheHurricaneGamr1 votes

Riot has tried to make him assassin, but people still figure out how to make the tank build work somehow. The biggest issue, whether being played as a tank or an assassin, is his passive. If he's tank, he permaslows you and becomes so sticky, making him impossible to deal with, and if he's assassin, he gets a ton of damage off without a way to punish him for being in melee range for it. If they toned down the MS buff and just removed the slow, they could very well put power elsewhere (base stats, movespeed, scalings, etc.)

C9 Scott Free 1 votes

He needs to get like 200 AP to match the damage he had before his base damage got nerfed and the time winder having such a long delay makes it even harder for So Ekko to succeed. Basically counter play is what hurts Ekko the most because while his passive is annoying he still has a lot of it until he is really far ahead.

Frius1 votes

remove slows ,remove W stun ,remove %missing hp , ,increase cds fixed.

ChaosThief1 votes

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2285054546/44880503

I mean, there are some of us who go full AP and still do decently. Granted, I'm not a ranked player, but hey.

ABlueQuaker1 votes

But Riot immediately gutted AP Tryndamere...

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