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Gangplank needs a massive adjustment in how utterly fail-safe he is.

HateDaddy··52 votes·3,054 views

And I know people will probably flip out but let me explain before you throw downvotes.

I have no issues with gangplank being safe. In fact, he's the safest pick in the game. There is almost no lane where he can't just simply elect to not interact and farm in. There's a few issues with this. For starters, he's one of the hardest scaling champions in the game. Once again, I'm not bugged by this though. I'm more bugged by all the extra gold he ends up getting when farming with Q/E. I know this has been his identity for quite some time but honestly, it's what makes him so utterly impossible to shut down.

Once he gets trinity force, he's a huge threat. It doesn't matter where he stands because that trinity proc on barrels hits hard no matter what. His ult is good, even without an upgrade. But once he farms out an upgrade, you simply cannot fight gangplanks team when his ult is up. I've had games where I've gone 0-5 in lane and I come back 10 minutes later after power farming and end up getting 4-5 kills right back and doing the most damage in the game. It doesn't matter how far behind you get on him, his extra gold is just going to make up that difference and with how quickly he can clear waves with his barrels, he farms mega hard super fast.

This is my biggest issue with Gangplank. It's not that he farms hard, it's not that he's safe, it's not even how he can bully several laners - that's all well and good because he's scaling is mostly dependent upon him picking between bullying and farming. When he bullies, he's not farming as hard so you still have a chance to kill him. When he doesn't bully and elects to farm, you get a free lane. What bothers me is that you can't shut him down. It doesn't matter how many times you kill him, he's going to just farm it back at a pace you can't keep up with. And that's why I said he's too fail-safe, he's always relevant. And for a champion that scales as hard as gangplank, I honestly think that's a pretty big problem.

Before anyone comes and tries to say he's garbage, check champion.gg and see how he's in top 6 winrates in both mid/top, with a total playrate of 18%. Not to mention, he has remained the most efficient pick in both lanes since he's basically been meta. In short, he's one of the best champions in the game still despite all the nerfs he has received.

I honestly think he needs to lose his bonus gold passive on Q. It was added on old gp along time ago when he was complete garbage and it made sense then. It doesn't really make sense now.

70 Comments

ModIts Yuu and Mi20 votes

In my opinion, the rework was a failure.

Pre-Rework GP was, while weak because let's be honest the design was crappy to balance without being stupid, still something that should've translated over: More versatile.

You had a lot of different builds people were trying, from "Korean GP" with Wit's/Shiv, to Crit GP, to Bruiser GP, etc.

Now, if you're going to make new GP have one build, or at least, one solid core build, that's fine. But.

The bigger issue here now is that... He's so one-dimensional. "Did I get a barrel off? GGWP. Did I fail it? Fuck."

I guess you have his Ult, sure. But IMO that really doesn't feel immersive. It's just "boom spray huge area pop barrel GGWP".

The problem with this design is that you have to focus so much on his barrel you can't look at other things. I dunno, I'd like to see if they could make him slightly more flexible or at least not so so dependent on barrel/R.

Regardless! That shit ain't happening, we all know that.

Something like what you're suggesting probably should happen though, yeah.

Take a +1

The Soulforged1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mounting Dread,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iExwT116,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-08-05T20:12:10.976+0000)

In my opinion, the rework was a failure.

Pre-Rework GP was, while weak because let's be honest the design was crappy to balance without being stupid, still something that should've translated over: More versatile.

You had a lot of different builds people were trying, from "Korean GP" with Wit's/Shiv, to Crit GP, to Bruiser GP, etc.

Now, if you're going to make new GP have one build, or at least, one solid core build, that's fine. But.

The bigger issue here now is that... He's so one-dimensional. "Did I get a barrel off? GGWP. Did I fail it? Fuck."

I guess you have his Ult, sure. But IMO that really doesn't feel immersive. It's just "boom spray huge area pop barrel GGWP".

The problem with this design is that you have to focus so much on his barrel you can't look at other things. I dunno, I'd like to see if they could make him slightly more flexible or at least not so so dependent on barrel/R.

Regardless! That shit ain't happening, we all know that.

Something like what you're suggesting probably should happen though, yeah.

Take a +1

Agreed. Honestly, his old e needed replacement, but it's replacement is too fundamental to a kit that originally never had it. I remember when you'd actually care about your q power without needing some other ability to boost it.

R FLASH XD2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mounting Dread,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iExwT116,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-08-05T20:12:10.976+0000)

In my opinion, the rework was a failure.

Pre-Rework GP was, while weak because let's be honest the design was crappy to balance without being stupid, still something that should've translated over: More versatile.

You had a lot of different builds people were trying, from "Korean GP" with Wit's/Shiv, to Crit GP, to Bruiser GP, etc.

Now, if you're going to make new GP have one build, or at least, one solid core build, that's fine. But.

The bigger issue here now is that... He's so one-dimensional. "Did I get a barrel off? GGWP. Did I fail it? Fuck."

I guess you have his Ult, sure. But IMO that really doesn't feel immersive. It's just "boom spray huge area pop barrel GGWP".

The problem with this design is that you have to focus so much on his barrel you can't look at other things. I dunno, I'd like to see if they could make him slightly more flexible or at least not so so dependent on barrel/R.

Regardless! That shit ain't happening, we all know that.

Something like what you're suggesting probably should happen though, yeah.

Take a +1

Critplank was so fun on old gp, press e and hope you crit really felt good I miss old gp :(

Ralanr4 votes

Versatility is hard to balance though.

Abyssphere1 votes

I don't think he means versatility as in being able to do lots of different types of effects, but just being able to respond to situations in more ways. The vast majority of champions have a variety of ways to interact with their enemies but GP never has any option besides trying to explode a barrel in their face - it's his CC, damage and self-peel all in one spell.

He's just repetitive to play because the answer to every situation is to try and hit a barrel. Of course, he was worse pre-rework because then the answer to every situation was to hope for the best.

Sona x Rubick2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mounting Dread,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iExwT116,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-08-05T20:12:10.976+0000)

you have to focus so much on his barrel you can't look at other things.

exactly, his passive for instance.

JustARivenMain2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mounting Dread,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iExwT116,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-08-05T20:12:10.976+0000)

In my opinion, the rework was a failure.

Pre-Rework GP was, while weak because let's be honest the design was crappy to balance without being stupid, still something that should've translated over: More versatile.

You had a lot of different builds people were trying, from "Korean GP" with Wit's/Shiv, to Crit GP, to Bruiser GP, etc.

Now, if you're going to make new GP have one build, or at least, one solid core build, that's fine. But.

The bigger issue here now is that... He's so one-dimensional. "Did I get a barrel off? GGWP. Did I fail it? Fuck."

I guess you have his Ult, sure. But IMO that really doesn't feel immersive. It's just "boom spray huge area pop barrel GGWP".

The problem with this design is that you have to focus so much on his barrel you can't look at other things. I dunno, I'd like to see if they could make him slightly more flexible or at least not so so dependent on barrel/R.

Regardless! That shit ain't happening, we all know that.

Something like what you're suggesting probably should happen though, yeah.

Take a +1

I remember when Crit GP was a fun build, now it's more into Meta than my other favorite build, Tank Gp, i hate how with GP to do insanely well you gotta go the crit/damage GP and if you go Tank GP it's almost useless (besides infinite sustain) .-.

Lovelle1 votes

I agree. I miss jungle and support GP. He was one of my first junglers back in season 2. Eventually I had to stop playing him once Mundo, Shiv and other tanks took over the jungle. Was really sad to see he couldnt effectively jungle anymore with the rework.

I remember a red once saying that jungle GP was what they were aiming for, long before his rework.

HateDaddy10 votes

downvoted by gp mains while collecting gold from bandit

Just Jangle5 votes

ITT: People defending GP.

Hard to believe.

Lovelle2 votes

He actually requires some finesse to play properly. He's less dangerous than Yi, Kat, and Illaoi at lower levels of play. That's why you'll see some think he's useless, while others think he's one of the best champs in the game.

Keìron1 votes

Obviously he needs nerfs. But the OP is talking about changing his kit, and this is wrong.

PPPPPPPPPPPP2704 votes

The biggest issue I have with Gangplank is the fact he can get his passive movement speed from destroying a barrel even if it hits nothing. It makes him way more mobile than you think someone with no gapcloser be. Add in the fact he also can proc phage and slow you if he hits. It becomes really annoying to deal with him.

Gankplank also just has the ability to get gold no matter where he his with his ultimate. He can ensure a close fight is decided with his ultimate in another lane.

Miraweave3 votes

They need to rework his Barrels again. Everything about the interaction between his Q and E is busted, from the fact that he gets a huge pile of extra gold to the fact that their base damages stack.

Ralanr1 votes

They stack? Two barrels on the same target don't really feel like they do more damage than one barrel imo.

Miraweave2 votes

{quoted}

They stack? Two barrels on the same target don't really feel like they do more damage than one barrel imo.

No i mean the fact that Q base damage overlaps with E base damage.

Ralanr1 votes

Ahh.

Keìron1 votes

Riot just need to make the barrels armor pen BONUS armor pen

Dunkrius2g1 votes

Then it must be atleast 75% cuz everyone will have at least 80~ base armor late game. Would be good to have that change but riot pulled off that change.

Keìron1 votes

yes, 70-75% would be enough. this also fits more the skirmisher attribute of "shredding easily also the beefiest targets".

2nd Chance3 votes

I honestly think they should revert his rework his barrels are that busted

Xolotyl6 votes

Before his rework you could take out 90% of a squishy's HP with a single Q

PermabannedGaren3 votes

{quoted}

And I know people will probably flip out but let me explain before you throw downvotes.

I have no issues with gangplank being safe. In fact, he's the safest pick in the game. There is almost no lane where he can't just simply elect to not interact and farm in. There's a few issues with this. For starters, he's one of the hardest scaling champions in the game. Once again, I'm not bugged by this though. I'm more bugged by all the extra gold he ends up getting when farming with Q/E. I know this has been his identity for quite some time but honestly, it's what makes him so utterly impossible to shut down.

Once he gets trinity force, he's a huge threat. It doesn't matter where he stands because that trinity proc on barrels hits hard no matter what. His ult is good, even without an upgrade. But once he farms out an upgrade, you simply cannot fight gangplanks team when his ult is up. I've had games where I've gone 0-5 in lane and I come back 10 minutes later after power farming and end up getting 4-5 kills right back and doing the most damage in the game. It doesn't matter how far behind you get on him, his extra gold is just going to make up that difference and with how quickly he can clear waves with his barrels, he farms mega hard super fast.

This is my biggest issue with Gangplank. It's not that he farms hard, it's not that he's safe, it's not even how he can bully several laners - that's all well and good because he's scaling is mostly dependent upon him picking between bullying and farming. When he bullies, he's not farming as hard so you still have a chance to kill him. When he doesn't bully and elects to farm, you get a free lane. What bothers me is that you can't shut him down. It doesn't matter how many times you kill him, he's going to just farm it back at a pace you can't keep up with. And that's why I said he's too fail-safe, he's always relevant. And for a champion that scales as hard as gangplank, I honestly think that's a pretty big problem.

Before anyone comes and tries to say he's garbage, check champion.gg and see how he's in top 6 winrates in both mid/top, with a total playrate of 18%. Not to mention, he has remained the most efficient pick in both lanes since he's basically been meta. In short, he's one of the best champions in the game still despite all the nerfs he has received.

I honestly think he needs to lose his bonus gold passive on Q. It was added on old gp along time ago when he was complete garbage and it made sense then. It doesn't really make sense now.

There aren't actually people that are stupid enough to believe that GP is garbage, are there?

But yeah, GP's free gold from farming with his Q is probably the part of his kit that I think needs to go most. That or like, his ultimate. It's mind-boggling that a "late game champion" can decide fights bottom lane in the laning phase without having to show up.

Ossus2 votes

{quoted}

There aren't actually people that are stupid enough to believe that GP is garbage, are there?

But yeah, GP's free gold from farming with his Q is probably the part of his kit that I think needs to go most. That or like, his ultimate. It's mind-boggling that a "late game champion" can decide fights bottom lane in the laning phase without having to show up.

Karthus

I mean I get that he's a mage and all, but there's not really a phase of the game where Karthus isn't relevant and potentially game deciding.

PermabannedGaren6 votes

{quoted}

Karthus

I mean I get that he's a mage and all, but there's not really a phase of the game where Karthus isn't relevant and potentially game deciding.

Karthus has one of the weakest laning phases in mid lane, and his ult is also much less impactful in laning phase, providing only relatively little damage compared to GP's ult providing potentially even more damage, as well as a slow. GP's ult also has a cooldown forty seconds shorter than Karthus', and unlike Karthus rushes CDR. Oh, and Karthus' ult has a delay.

I mean, yeah, it can impact fights in other lanes, but not to near the same extent as GP's IMHO. Karthus also doesn't get extra gold from farming with his Q.

In isolation, maybe GP's ult wouldn't be so bad, but combined with everything else in his kit it's stupid. His design is busted.

Ossus2 votes

{quoted}

Karthus has one of the weakest laning phases in mid lane, and his ult is also much less impactful in laning phase, providing only relatively little damage compared to GP's ult providing potentially even more damage, as well as a slow. GP's ult also has a cooldown forty seconds shorter than Karthus', and unlike Karthus rushes CDR. Oh, and Karthus' ult has a delay.

I mean, yeah, it can impact fights in other lanes, but not to near the same extent as GP's IMHO. Karthus also doesn't get extra gold from farming with his Q.

In isolation, maybe GP's ult wouldn't be so bad, but combined with everything else in his kit it's stupid. His design is busted.

GP's ult is dependant on people standing in it, which relies on a number of variables he can't always account for. Karthus' damage is virtually guaranteed barring something like an hourglass.

As for Karthus' early game being weak..I dunno I'll just have to agree to disagree on that one man.

NineTailedMystic1 votes

Karthus can be interrupted if he doesn't use it in passive.

Silmaril2 votes

{quoted}

GP's ult is dependant on people standing in it, which relies on a number of variables he can't always account for. Karthus' damage is virtually guaranteed barring something like an hourglass.

As for Karthus' early game being weak..I dunno I'll just have to agree to disagree on that one man.

I would definitely argue against your assertion that GP's ult requires people to stand on it, it's actually the opposite. GP's ult is such a strong decider of lane battles because it has to be avoided. It can easily secure a kill without doing a single point of damage because it forces your opponent to either make non-ideal movement that leaves them open to damage, or try to go through, which gets them slowed, makes them take extra damage and still leaves them open to damage.

Karthus' ult damage is guaranteed, yes, but his rank 1 ult is really, really bad. 250 base damage, and a typical Karthus build rushes catalyst, so he won't even have much AP to back it up (Just Doran's Ring + runes/masteries). Additionally, because it only does damage and has no utility, it doesn't open your opponents up to additional damage from your teammates, so the only effect it has on a fight is in the ~200 HP range.

HateDaddy3 votes

{quoted}

There aren't actually people that are stupid enough to believe that GP is garbage, are there?

But yeah, GP's free gold from farming with his Q is probably the part of his kit that I think needs to go most. That or like, his ultimate. It's mind-boggling that a "late game champion" can decide fights bottom lane in the laning phase without having to show up.

Yes there are tons of people who actually think this

zlumpy8 votes

I've decided top lane fights as ashe before :P

ForgiveColour2 votes

yeah nice 1/10000 chance when gangplank cant miss his global ult

zlumpy1 votes

Was that one aimed at me or a miss type? I must be missing something otherwise.

Sohleks3 votes

The first thing I would have nerfed about this GP was his ultimate. I feel it's too powerful of a easy insta click global ability. 50% of what this champion does is press that button; even if he whiffs absolutely everything else the combined dmg and slow on that ult makes him fairly present. Even if he isn't!

Or perhaps the cd is too low.

I also seriously dislike his Grasp interaction. But thankfully people have kinda stopped doing that a bit even though all that extra harass and sustain tips LANING against this hyperscale monster into something cancerous.

Ralanr1 votes

I'm not sure on which keystone to use on him. At this point I use TLD for his ultimate since I don't like actually dueling with GP.

MunchCrunchLunch1 votes

The fact that he also has a qss 2.0 makes it worse

HateDaddy2 votes

{quoted}

The fact that he also has a qss 2.0 makes it worse

That part of his kit is fine tbh

Keìron1 votes

He's an immobile skirmisher, he needs at least one strong defensive tool.

Ben Sharpio2 votes

"immobile skirmisher" because he's never moving 90 MPS at every point of the game because of his movement speed passive bullshit right?

Keìron2 votes

That mobility can't be compared to others skirmishers(riven,yasuo,fiora,kled,Graves...)

Abyssphere2 votes

I'm pretty confident Gangplank is happy to trade mobility for the amazing range he has compared to all the melee skirmishes you just listed.

Keepe1 votes

-Shrug- I like GP, so I respectfully disagree. None the less, your arguments do make me think.

Onion the Fried1 votes

I agree. Even though it's somewhat iconic, he shouldn't have it. I played him a ton prerework, and his getting multiple q kills on minions was a reward of lining it up correctly. However, now it's ridiculously easy to kill an entire wave with one q. The thought element is gone, you just get extra gold for playing.

Personally, I would also like to see more of his power shifted to his passive to encourage doing more than just praying for barrels to land. however, that may just be me reminiscing about the korean gp build/playstyle.

Zonkman1 votes

in MY opinion it might just be his interaction and need for triforce and how in My opinion how powerful sheen proc items are because I think sheen items are the root of all evils with annoying to play against things such as all those pesky tank Ekko Fizz that build triforce and tank everything triforce just adds so much omph to abilities that proc on hits that gp barley touches crit builds anymore but again thats just me and my hate for all non lichbane sheen items

chipndip11 votes

I mean, he's a pretty well designed champion. You could reduce the slow on his barrels a bit and make his orange heal less or something, but I honestly like how he is generally.

JerulEon1 votes

I would argue to maybe hit his scaling utility a bit. Like an 80% chain AOE slow from his barrels is a bit much.

AetherKingdom1 votes

ye i ban gp every game cuz i cant fucking stand losing fights because he pressed r 10000 units away

Handin Out Naps1 votes

Wow someone finally complains about GP being too good and its HateDaddy. On another note I feel like his ult is also a big problem, the fact that he can sit in lane while being even or behind and just ult with thunderlords to get kills or assists is a pretty big reason why he is so fail-safe aswell. But that's probably something that will never be changed so its better to just get rid of his passive gold like you said.

Malicious Metal1 votes

There's one thing I absolutely hate going up against GP as Morde. I can poke him and bully him all I want. Yet he can just press R and get some easy gold and experience by getting some free assists or even a kill.

You can't keep him down enough to justify his late game. Morde's a monster once HE gets his items too but you can totally shut him down early and make his life HELL.

Gp, not so much.

Håppy1 votes

Just bring back old GP. It was so fun to play. Mana return when last hitting with Q, no stupidly overpowered 80% armor pen barrel nukes chaining all across the lane, and mixed damage. I loved that bastard.

Keìron1 votes

barrels armor pen is 40%.

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