and I'm just happy that we finally have Dota style melee carries like Axe and Juggernaut (literally) in the game. Yeah we already had them but now they can carry the game while building mostly tanky, without honestly being that broken unless you feed them.
I'm pretty happy.
disregardable28 votesIt's actually pretty broken that they have tons of damage with no weaknesses, but okay.
Koechophe29 votes"No weaknesses"?
Darius has no mobility whatsoever, can be poked to death with impunity, has barely any cc to speak of (his E is barely usable after the nerfes and in total, brings 2 seconds of slow on his kit) and can be kited by anyone who has any idea what they're doing, not to mention having no innate tank steriods.
Garen is still a bit over the top, but is, on average, slow, vulnerable to poke, lacks consistent sustain and will get killed by any form of % of hp damage.
Skarner is an issue, but he's squishy and can be cc'd and killed quite easily. He lacks sustain in the jungle and (ironically) lacks consistent damage.
Mord is the easiest champ to kite in all the league and no matter how nasty his Q is, he STILL won't scale into late game like an ADC will. Be careful early game and he becomes a liability late game.
They do damage BECAUSE they have such clearly defined weaknesses. The only people complaining are the ones who rush in and try to 1v1 them, and then (rightfully) get eaten alive.
disregardable23 votesExcept they build 
and boots and are now more mobile than every adc except kalista.
Sulghunter9 votesAhem. 
My ultimate kiting build.
1 800 MID LANE9 votesI've also found that 
is a godly kiting champ, too.
After your first item, build this and never be caught.
Xizz3l1 votesI hope you know that slows don't stack
If not I feel bad for you
Sulghunter1 votesCrap, that's my kiting kit for Quinn. Replace FM with
LionelLeon15 votesAhem.
My ultimate kiting build.
Why would u want a frozen mallet if Ashe already has aa that slows?
Squidblimp1 votesThe slows don't stack anymore bro.
Sulghunter2 votesMy mistake, that was my kiting kit for Quinn. Replace FM with
LankPants1 votesReplace it with a defensive item like GA or BV or a LW. Ruunan's is kinda trash on Ashe.
A Miss Fortune1 votes
I feel like a terrible person for playing this against any melee champion. Except Xin Zhao, I hate that guy.
WarlockLaw2 votesEz, vayne, and lucian are far more mobile than them still. Also they can still get kited by most adcs very effectively
disregardable2 votesI have video evidence that is not the case, at least for Lucian.
WooBeeWoo7 votesPeople just want to carry with zed, kat, jinx etc. Not realizing that kite/poke/cc champs will counter. Liss for example is pretty dam annoying to them, janna etc
fasega13 votes"The only people complaining are the ones who rush in and try to 1v1 them, and then (rightfully) get eaten alive." When playing garen today I had a tristana run into me melee range (she literally walking into me while I was farming minions) and tank my Q, E, and Ult. After she dies she is raging in all chat how garen is op. Its amazing how much this happens in Platinum (I am Plat 4). HOW IS THIS STILL HAPPENING BEYOND BRONZE.
Chromatic Eagle1 votesHow am I still in Bronze when everyone else does that?
fasega4 votesMy point was that people still facetank damage from melee champions and expect to survive. People aren't even trying to kite at all.
A Miss Fortune2 votesFor some reason I see all four of these champions do EXTREMELY well every single game I play with them. Darius becomes immortal with a 5,000 health heal, Garen one shots people with his ultimate, Skarner is basically a walking Baron Nashor, and Morde will still one shot you no matter what he builds, you can build 6 Ardent Censers and still one shot somebody, and that's not even an over exaggeration.
Alphadef1 votesActually, I'm pretty sure garen's ult is literally incapable on oneshotting anyone. Depends on if the flat damage applies before or with the %
Tails Doll2 votes"Skarner is an issue, but he's squishy and can be cc'd and killed quite easily. He lacks sustain in the jungle and (ironically) lacks consistent damage."
WUT? Skarner, Squishy? WUT? Lacks sustain in the jungle, WUT? Lacks consistente DMG WUT?!
Meep Man1 votes[{quoted}](name=Very Toxic Jinx,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iEiloOdP,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-09-04T07:02:34.794+0000)
It's actually pretty broken that they have tons of damage with no weaknesses, but okay.
If they are already right beside you sure.
Dr Poro11 votesIt's pretty broken with the winrates they currently have. Garen is on the edge of being fine, imo. His MS nerfs tackled him in the right way, but I think a small nerf towards him is appropriate (but I think the same about Irelia who is probably not getting nerfed anytime soon as she doesn't see play in LCS and few people complain about her atm).
Darius, however, idk what Riot was thinking. He had the same issue the new Fiora had: Very low winrate on release as players had to find out their optimal play style and build, got a hotfix that buffed them over the whole line and end up being dominant picks.
Funny thing: Mordekaiser had the same issue, with the difference that evne when built inappropriately, he still had a high winrate, so Riot didn't do anything. However, now that he has been "figured out", his winrate is the same as Skarner rework release: Desperately in need of a hotfix nerf.
Lovelle6 votesI just hate how they have better early games than Trundle/Mundo and now better late games as well. Literally no reason to play Trundle now unless as a support. Sure Trundle can beat them 1v1 (Darius barely), but they are massively better than him in now in skirmishes/teamfights and with how Darius Q works now it's like Trundle's ult healing but every 5 seconds.
Also, Mundo just doesn't have a place at all now.
dEAdbUs6 votesAxe in dota has no sustain and low hp, so he s killable. Dari and Garen are not.
LithiumWednesday1 votes*coughing
dEAdbUs1 votesHow about base stats?
LithiumWednesday1 votesHe's got high base HP and average growth.
Sustain in Dota is mostly regen based. Axe gets regen from stat gain and a good amount of his core items. It should also be noted that since most of his consistent damage is in his passive, he doesn't typically build damage items that don't also give durability.
Rebonack4 votesWe always had champions like this, though.
This was Garen back in Season 1. Or Nasus before his string of nerfs. Or Darius before his string of nerfs. There have always been tanky damage dealers who can carry the game.
Salidfingers4 votesI built a Darius armor/pen tanky and i couldn't die in team fight with his Q health return :P
Vekkna4 votesThe entire problem with Garen is that he can feed and still snowball. Not feeding the Garen doesn't hamstring him at all.
Creamy Eevee3 votespeople need to get off the flash train and learn to use 
like if you have 5 exhausts on one team you can literally reduce so much damage taken if the strong/fed enemies are chain exausted
CppL2 votes[{quoted}](name=Nurse Glaceon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iEiloOdP,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-09-04T06:54:54.882+0000)
people need to get off the flash train and learn to use
Ex is defence summoner.I dont like to play defence thats boring.And if enemy has alot of sustain and you dont have ignite ,you fucked.
Creamy Eevee2 votesEx is defence summoner.I dont like to play defence thats boring.And if enemy has alot of sustain and you dont have ignite ,you fucked.
that's the point muscle head play defensive if you get wrecked by them durr
1 800 MID LANE2 votesNo you're not. If you want grievous wounds, have someone build a morrel. (I'm pretty sure there's a melee version, too.)
LithiumWednesday1 votesRIP Executioner's Calling 
not even an item icon left
Heckin Support9 votes[{quoted}](name=Nurse Glaceon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iEiloOdP,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-09-04T06:54:54.882+0000)
people need to get off the flash train and learn to use
The problem with this is that the game is balanced around flash so much.
TurquoiseYoshi2 votesIsn't Flash the best summoner in the game? What the hell does Ghost have over Flash? It just doesn't make sense to bring Ghost instead of Flash unless your specific champion has insane synergy with it (Hecarim, Olaf). I'll bring Ghost/Flash if I don't want to feed in mid lane, but I'm not going Ghost/Exhaust unless I'm playing Hecarim mid. Which I have never done.
Twiggles3 votesGhost has a much lower cooldown timer than Flash and will generally get you farther away. A flash user cannot teleport far enough to escape a ghost user unless they flash over a wall.
TurquoiseYoshi1 votesThe thing is, Flash gives you more utility. Ghost is very obvious, as it just sends you faster towards where you were going before. Flash allows you to dodge something, or go Flash->ability to engage instantly. Ghost just doesn't have that utility. Sure, it allows people to maybe just run away fast enough to get away, but it won't be able to do all the fancy tricks that Flash can.
Twiggles1 votesI agree 100% I was just answering your question of what ghost has over flash. The lower cooldown can actually be a pretty big deal. Especially if you take it on a mid and do a lot of roaming. Flash definitely has more utility, but ghost is just straight up better for specific situations and playstyles.
Both are perfectly viable, but I'll admit that flash is more common for a good reason. And that's the utility you mentioned.
Guy Fox Teemo1 votesFlash is essential on most champs, since it allows for such great combos or a free escape for someone like mordekaiser.
WooBeeWoo2 votesI agree personally I haven't seen anything to me that shows them being out of hand unless fed.
MalzaharAnyLane2 votesI'm not a big fan of people who deal as much damage as they soak, and damage really needs to be the last thing a tank should have to be a threat, not the first.
Rito doesn't seem to comprehend this and keeps making tanks that can seal kills, which just results in bruisers or people building full tank because they can't be stopped.
Juggernaut is a stupid archetype, most tanks should be like Amumu or Malphite, their threat is their initiation, not the fact that their initiation also halves the whole team's HP. That's what the AP nuker is supposed to be there for.
Tanks like Volibear, Shyvana or tanky bruisers are stupid, either large hard AoE CC or spammable CC should be their threat, not gobs of magic damage or spammable percent max HP damage.
A tank whose team is ahead should still get 1v1'd by an AD carry lategame, not vice versa.
SouL1ess2 votesAxe? Melee carry?
Juggernaut building tank?
ALBIØN2 votesHonestly, I'm happy that garen and darius are more viable now; however, they need nerfs. I usually don't have an issue with darius but with garen its such a pain in the ass. Two days ago I went 5/1/0 in lane against garen as Riven and the one death i had wasn't even to garen it was to an enemy jinx rocket across the map as I was getting tower dove by a lee sin and garen >.> Basically I destroyed garen in lane and got all the turrets in top lane. Even though I was insanely fed we couldn't close out the game because my bot and midlanes kept getting caught. Once it was late game we lost because garen was unkillable and pretty much did the same amount of damage as i did with just a black cleaver + all tanky items and boots. That is completely ridiculous. Garen as he is right now is pretty much freelo. I use to play garen a lot last season but I've only played him 5 times (i know this number isn't a lot but his win rate and my success with him both prove that he's slightly overturned) this season after the rework and I won all of the games. Old garen wasn't an issue because he was really hard to kill but fell off and didn't do too much damage. But now new garen does damage and never dies. I don't want garen and darius to be nerfed into oblivion because I find them extremely fun to play against and play as. I just think morde, garen, and darius need some more slaps to the wrists here and there. Like reduce the max ticks on garen's e and I'm not sure what to do about morde and personally I'm fine with darius I usually win against him even when I get countered but its hard to tell so I'll stay out of that one too.
windwolf7771 votesSorry mate, but 
isn't jug. The only similarities are the sword and spin. But aside from that nothing. Jug is a fast attacker relying on crit and going invulnerable with his ult. If anything jug is like 
(who is kinda like a combination of Him and Ember Spirit). (Only correcting because I'm a jug main.)
And Axe isn't really a melee carry. He's more of a snowballing tank/initiator/cleanup. (Imho a better one would be Sven, Tiny, Chaos Knight, etc.)
Sorry for that kinda rant. But however, I do agree that it's nice seeing tanky melee champs being good
OverpoweredSoap1 votesEveryone is mentioning these kiting champions but has yet to mention 
.
Sometimes when I play her, I forget melee champions even exist.
ElegantDoge1 votesI find the changes to be a bit overtuned but still good honestly.It's nice to have strong bruiser you need to deal with.
ExcaIibur Morgan1 votesI've been playing Quinn, Kayle, and Vladimir top and I find it possible to lane against Garen and Darius without getting completely rekt. They're not completely broken, I think. When patch 5.16 first came out, I thought they were but eventually I found a way to deal with them.
