Is Lucian's absurd pick rate and strength going to be addressed?

Danny DeVito·Apr 30, 2017·94 votes·4,510 views

Really tired of seeing him in every game and getting mega fed just because he can abuse new BoRK like mad

157 Comments

PennsApr 30, 201775 votes

Luckily I got to play against a Lucian AND a Lee in a ranked game a few hours ago so I had the chance to record and show people what to do against them:

https://i.gyazo.com/7339d5be9cbab2eb73448b8e2c0169fb.gif

hehe xd

Velzard of KozApr 30, 201721 votes

#challengerstrategies "Just Dodge the ~~skillshots~~ queue"

Dr PoroApr 30, 20174 votes

you just suck at the (pre)game. You had the first ban option and you waste it on lulu instead of lucian. Missclicked much?

Troll for TrumpApr 30, 201738 votes

"waste it on lulu"

MelledoneusApr 30, 201713 votes

https://i.imgflip.com/1o6rwt.jpg

EvanThomasMay 1, 201710 votes

You forgot to mention that your teammate was about to lock in Yasuo as well. Good guide!

AnidanMay 1, 20173 votes

the guide writer was also going to play Fizz top, so that's a paddlin'.

EvanThomasMay 1, 201711 votes

That would've been a legendary game.

Both teams surrender at 20; the game wins.

Fed by Snu SnuApr 30, 201763 votes

It's 2017, nerfing Lucian would be racist.

EpixnesssApr 30, 201745 votes

But Lucian deserves equal treatment like all the other nerfed adcs

MelledoneusApr 30, 20179 votes

And this is when we start arguing about the definition of equality, spanning all dictionaries, from Oxford to Urban.

Delicious salt.

Velzard of KozApr 30, 20179 votes

Poor guy, he lost his wife, people have some heart.

blueberrypancakeMay 1, 20175 votes

It's just a restraining order kappa

Velzard of KozMay 1, 20172 votes

Thresh, the Warden of the Law

KaeblenMay 1, 20172 votes

Rengar I have the heart of a warrior. 7, actually.

chipndip1Apr 30, 201722 votes

45% pick/53% win in Diamond, but he's balanced because win rates mean nothing.

invisiblecat1Apr 30, 20172 votes

So a champion with a 90% winrate can still be balanced??? Well I guess they do mean nothing

crippler38Apr 30, 201713 votes

exceptions to every rule, also chip was being sarcastic I imagine.

AmihanMay 1, 20176 votes

{quoted}

45% pick/53% win in Diamond, but he's balanced because win rates mean nothing.

Ahri 53% win rate 20 %pick rate but oh well win rate mean nothing

NineTailedMysticMay 1, 20174 votes

Less than half the pick rate lol

4NoxiousHoursApr 30, 20178 votes

Haven't you guys noticed there's always a trend among ADC's every year?

Like remember when Kalista Jinx Caitlyn were ALWAYS being picked?

now it's Lucian Ezreal Caitlyn that I see mostly and ONLY.

l Helios lApr 30, 201712 votes

It's the simple fact of a meta. If >insert 3 adcs here are simply better than the others in the pot, why the fuck would I play >insert non-meta adc here?

Ex. Why would you play Draven when Caitlyn does his job better and with 1. Longer range and 2. More protection and utility? Unless you main Draven , you have no reason to pick him over Caitlyn . You can go on and on with this.

This kind of problem is always the worst for ADCs because they're all too similar for the role to be diversified.

AnidanMay 1, 20171 votes

Only a few of them do the role any kind of differently; 2 are in the jungle with different playstyles between them. Among the bot lane ADCs it's way less diverse in terms of how they play, with only a couple really standing out. Probably the most notable, I'd say, is Ezreal. He's a spellblade with a nice amount of build variety in that he can go his normal AD route, Blue, or AP (in mid), and this gives him potential reason to be picked even if he's not the strongest since flexibility is its own strength in a lineup. Most of the rest are too similar.

l Helios lMay 1, 20173 votes

Basically. There's no real differentiation other than what they can offer the team. However, that's outweighed by Caitlyn being Caitlyn and Lucian simply being scrappier than any other ADC that isn't Cait. Ez is the unique case where he's a caster type ADC.

PhDs NutsApr 30, 20178 votes

{quoted}

Haven't you guys noticed there's always a trend among ADC's every year?

Like remember when were ALWAYS being picked?

now it's that I see mostly and ONLY.

lol.

Like that doesn't happen in top, mid, supp, and jg every year, too. If it was possible, the 3 most popular supports atm would all be Lulu.

Big LincolnMay 1, 20174 votes

top lane is always diverse

Mira Arya EntheMay 1, 20172 votes

Top lane is the place where all the mastery emote spamming jerks go to measure up their epeen on whichever lane bully has the best emote spamming.

Big LincolnMay 1, 20173 votes

we're diverse lane bullies

NasussMay 1, 20172 votes

But im not a lane bully ):

SolidariusMay 1, 20174 votes

new top lane rule: if you dont have lvl 7 mastery

you are not allowed there.

[slayer-jinx-wink]

TheHappyReaperzApr 30, 20177 votes

BoRk is getting nerfed in the upcoming patch, so odds are that'll decrease his viability. If he still is really strong, Riot will probably nerf him.

MunchCrunchLunchApr 30, 20176 votes

{quoted}

BoRk is getting nerfed in the upcoming patch, so odds are that'll decrease his viability. If he still is really strong, Riot will probably nerf him.

i doubt it will do much. the stupid bruiser build with something like 20% damage reduction from tabi and pd is ridiculous. and cleaver makes him too tanky.

MelledoneusApr 30, 20173 votes

Why the fuck do ADCs have an item that give them damage AND damage reduction? You don't give up anything by building PD unless you're playing someone like Jhin.

EvanThomasApr 30, 20177 votes

No, because Riot will never admit that changing BoRK was a mistake. Or admit any mistakes for that matter.

DemiluniSApr 30, 20175 votes

what exactly making it a mistake ? it went from unused item to being used? how the hell is this a mistake? let's start calling every champion a mistake just because.... thinks getting stronger/weaker all the time

EvanThomasMay 1, 20175 votes

The current top three ADCs are ~~using~~ rushing BoRK: Ashe, Varus, and Lucian. This is a sign that the item is too powerful. It alone is defining the meta for ADCs.

In Ashe and Lucian's cases, they are abuse cases. Ashe's kit is specifically designed to synergize with crit over everything else, and Lucian's current BoRK - Cleaver build is too oppressive.

BoRK was in a decent state before. Its role was to be the first item for hypercarries such as Twitch and Kog'maw, and a niche item against health stackers like Nunu and Cho'gath.

So to answer your question in a nutshell, no. It didn't go from unused to used; it went from unused to abused.

My HeartshakerMay 1, 20174 votes

"BoRK was in a decent state before. Its role was to be the first item for hypercarries such as Twitch and Kog'maw, and a niche item against health stackers like Nunu and Cho'gath."

You're completely wrong here. BotRK was complete trash before the update, nobody built it even on champs who should have e.g. Vayne. Twitch and KogMaw never built it first because the gold efficiency was terrible, twitch always went bf/zeal whilst the latter saw almost zero gameplay whatsoever.

I'd argue BotRK was a good change, because it brought back a lot of adcs that were underplayed like KogMaw Twitch Kennen Lucian Tristana Kalista Varus even stuff like Sivir Vayne Jinx had builds going for it.

It really did help diversify bot lane.

EvanThomasMay 1, 20175 votes

In regards to the ADCs you mentioned, I'd like to adress each of them.

Firstly, Kennen. ADC Kennen is a cool off-meta pick, but his primary role was mage, so I don't think he should be counted as a regular ADC in this list. (If anything, showing that ADC Kennen came into meta because of BoRK changes shows that it's too strong. For example, if Quinn ADC became meta because of BoRK, it would be proof the item is too strong.)

Secondly, Lucian was brought back, yes, but now he's too strong. (And I would argue that BoRK - Cleaver was fine on him before the changes...after the changes to both items, Lucian gets an extra 5 AD and 100 HP from the build...if anyone had built it before, they would have found out it was a good build on him)

Thirdly, Kalista was brought back into meta with her E changes making it easier to lane. Might I add that she is now 4th in line, behind Lucian, Ashe, and Varus after BoRK buffs as well?

Fourthly, KogMaw Twitch Tristana Vayne These are late-game hypercarries. But suddenly, in a game that has recently become too short to scale, they are picked again! Late-game hypercarries surviving early and spiking mid game is more proof that BoRK is too strong right now. I'm not against them coming back, it's just that games have been too short for them to hit their powerspike. That's what needs fixing, game length. Instead, BoRK changes made these carries mid and late game. It's a bad fix.

By the way, Jinx should have been building BoRK all along IMO. She has way too much attack speed to pass that item up.

...and Sivir? Just like Ashe, another ADC designed to scale exclusively with crit, now building BoRK. It's pretty definitive proof that BoRK is busted right now.

AnidanMay 1, 20171 votes

Y'know, the sad thing is that Kennen's kit feels so much better as AD to me. As AP the bonus damage he gains from W on every 4th AA or so just feels puny after a couple minutes, but as AD the kit seems to all come together if not for the fact that it scales with AP instead, and even then it still works really well for AD despite that. Wish he could be balanced around both, but that's a pretty tall order for the lightning mouse.

EvanThomasMay 1, 20174 votes

Yeah, patch 7.1 kind of screwed him over. They kept his AP ratio on ult the same, but only on the full channel. They should have made it so that the full channel on the new ult (where the damage scales up per tick instead of down) does more damage than the old one, so that even if you don't get the entire channel, it still pays off. Lack of foresight on Riot's part.

And I totally understand why AD kennen feels good too. Really high attack speed and a decent W AD scaling as well as self-peel. Good stuff.

AirKingNeoMay 1, 20174 votes

Ashe and Lucian are not "abuse cases". Stop throwing a word around to exaggerate. Ergo, your argument is faulty.

EvanThomasMay 1, 20172 votes

...but they are. They should not be building these items, but due to how strong BoRK is right now, they are. Hence, it's an "abuse case."

Let me reiterate that Ashe's kit is designed to scale exclusively with crit. This would mean that BoRK should not be an early item on her. However, due to BoRK buffs, she is now building it first item. Hence, abuse case.

Lucian's build is BoRK -> Cleaver. This is two tank-shredding items on one carry. However, even with this build, he is not limited to killing tanks. He does more than relevant damage to all champions in the game, regardless of their build, with BoRK & Cleaver. Hence, this is an abuse case as well.

Yeah, I get that Boards is notorious for throwing a word around to exaggerate, but can I get the benefit of the doubt here?

Edit: I didn't make it clear that I meant BoRK as the first item is the abuse case, not building BoRK in general. My mistake.

DemiluniSMay 1, 20172 votes

MissFortune , Riot trying to force her to build crit, But her kit functions better with lethality. It doesn't matter what Riot trying to force you to build, If alternative build functions better, that's the intended build.

About tank shredding, it was always the case, tank shredding builds always did more damage to squshies, that's just how the game works, and Riot need to take their time to figure out how to solve this, it's not an abuse case, call things their names.

EvanThomasMay 1, 20172 votes

If alternative build functions better, that's the intended build.

She's part of the reason Lethality was nerfed.

...because it wasn't the intended build.

Same story with AP MF a while ago. It got nerfed too, because even though an alternative build functions better, that doesn't mean it's the intended build.

Bouncemaster ZacMay 1, 20176 votes

{quoted}

what exactly making it a mistake ? it went from unused item to being used? how the hell is this a mistake? let's start calling every champion a mistake just because.... thinks getting stronger/weaker all the time

It didn't go from unused to used. It went from unused straight to "100% must first item rush every game; don't play adcs that don't synergize with this item."

AirKingNeoMay 1, 20172 votes

The BoRK change was one of the best ideas.

Lucian is the problem.

EvanThomasMay 1, 20176 votes

How was it a good idea? Not a rhetorical question, just want to hear your thoughts.

AirKingNeoMay 1, 20173 votes

From "Wow barely anyone builds this item" to "Wow Aatrox is viable and ADC's are useful pre 4 items".

Do I think it is overtunned? Hell yeah. Do I think some champions need buffs or nerfs who use it if it ever does get nerfed? Hell yeah.

EvanThomasMay 1, 20175 votes

I blame game length here. BoRK being re-tuned to make ADCs relevant in a much shorter game where they can't scale is a bad fix. Riot needs to reduce the amouont of gold on the map so that games don't snowball as quickly, allowing ADCs to start scaling again, instead of making BoRK their crutch.

And...Aatrox? Is that a new champ? Memes aside, similar problem, but tack onto that that he was just in a bad state as well.

AirKingNeoMay 1, 20173 votes

Aatrox surprisingly has a high winrate top.

Second best.