Sona needs to be perma-banned from ARAM

JavelinJoe·May 21, 2017·6 votes·3,320 views

It is just unfair. she has one of, if not the most consist high win-rates of all champions. She basically negates one of the biggest combat restrictions of ARAM (cant back to heal). Soraka has at least a trade off where she has to use her own health + mana and has to choose between higher damage or better sustain (defense). Sona gets both with her team wide shield and an escape on her E in case it fails somehow, all of which are more or less spamable with her innate 40% cdr. Normally she is gated by mana costs, but ARAM covers that with the increased mana regen.

And before some of you start complaining that it is ARAM, "All Random" is in the name, let me remind you that it is not "All Random". If it was, I could possibly play any champion in the game. But that is not how it works, I have to use only my own champion pool + the FotW pool. So no it is not at all "All Random".

34 Comments

MinardeMay 21, 20172 votes

Banning champs in permanent modes feels terrible for fans of that champ. It's more acceptable, yet still not ideal, for temporary modes, since fans aren't indefinitely locked out from purchased content. Map-specific champ balancing would be preferable, but unfortunately Riot isn't doing that anymore. As such, systems-level changes are the only option. Suggesting one such change might be more productive than simply asking for outright banning.

JavelinJoeMay 21, 20172 votes

Yeah, but seriously, they need to do something about the balance a little bit. She has not dropped below a 65-70% win rate ever in ARAM I think.

Maybe once you win a game on a champ you cant play or trade for them anymore until you win on say 5 others first.

CavemanteroMay 22, 20172 votes

no she doesn't need permaban. the problem is the snowballing from the latest changes. if a sona team gets ahead its pretty much a 100% win rate.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoMay 21, 20171 votes

it would be all random if you had all champs wouldnt it?

and its always been all random from the champ pool you own and the free rotation champs

JavelinJoeMay 21, 20172 votes

if it is from only your pool, you can make an aram account with only 30 or so of the best champions. Not really all random then is it.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoMay 21, 20171 votes

and people do that... but you cant control WHAT CHAMP IT GIVES YOU

JavelinJoeMay 21, 20173 votes

But you can limit the champs it picks from giving you a significantly higher chance of getting something good, like Sona, each game. So yeah, you kind of can control what it gives you to an extent.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoMay 21, 20171 votes

sona has one damage ability... 1

like really you are crying over one ability when she is squishy, slow, and has no escapes or peel /cc outside of her ult at lvl 6

Jinzo TorranceMay 21, 20172 votes

Sona has 70% winrate on ARAM and she's constantly in a team that offers her peeling and allow her to become a healbot.

They can either nerf her specifically for ARAM like they did for some champion on TT or just disable her because the team that currently has her has way too much of an advantage.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoMay 22, 20171 votes

how is she constantly in a team that offers her peeling ? if its aram where you have no direct control over what champ you or your teammate gets?

JavelinJoeMay 21, 20171 votes

Q and R plus passive

BigBellBruteMay 22, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iAbJ1wGW,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-05-21T21:57:03.649+0000)

sona has one damage ability... 1

like really you are crying over one ability when she is squishy, slow, and has no escapes or peel /cc outside of her ult at lvl 6

You don't play much aram do you?

oSEXYPLATYPUSoMay 22, 20171 votes

so in aram she gets more damage abilities ?

and no i dont its just one big clown fiesta

SecondAirbaneMay 22, 20172 votes

she actually has 2 dmg abilities

goddamn

oSEXYPLATYPUSoMay 22, 20171 votes

lol her ult? that she dont get til lvl 6? and is somewhat of an aoe skill shot?

JavelinJoeMay 22, 20171 votes

and is somewhat of an AOE skill shot

Yes it is an AOE skillshot. Many champions have them. Many of which have them as ults too. Here are some examples Graves Cassiopeia Draven Braum Xerath Ziggs Fizz

oSEXYPLATYPUSoMay 22, 20171 votes

lol love people crying over a support

SecondAirbaneMay 22, 20171 votes

skillshot? LOL ITS NOT EVEN HARD TO HIT

oSEXYPLATYPUSoMay 22, 20171 votes

that dont matter ...

its still an AOE SKILL SHOT

why dont people just focus her cuz she is squishy and has no escapes and blow her up and not worry about her ?

SecondAirbaneMay 22, 20171 votes

so lux has 0 damage abilities is what you're saying

basically any champ with a skillshot is not considered damage right? i'm confused here

oSEXYPLATYPUSoMay 22, 20171 votes

not talking about a mage who is designed to be burst and range like LUX we are talking people bitching over a support with one damage ability

MinardeMay 22, 20171 votes

First, Sona excels in ARAM because her design is well-suited for the environment. The combination of offense, defense, and utility she has allows her to easily adapt to most situations. Additionally, she's intended to be strongest when she's with her team, and it's fairly difficult to not be with your team in ARAM.

Secondly, why are you commenting about balance for a game mode you're clearly unfamiliar with? Or, at the very least, uninterested in?

oSEXYPLATYPUSoMay 22, 20171 votes

not unfamiliar .. i know sona very very well played her since season 2 and she has been one of my mains to date... i am uninterested in a game mode that is just a clown fiesta ... cuz of you not being able to choose champs or team comps so your at the luck of the draw on that. to cry over wins and losses in that kinda of game mode is kinda dumb... and 2, those people who create aram accounts and stack it with champs just for aram so they increases their odds of getting a really good champ to increase their chances of winning...

there is zero way to balance this game mode... jsut play it as what it is... its a clown fiesta... pick a champ go all ad runes or all ap runes build damage and smash buttons and go ham

end of game win or lose it dont matter cuz no way is there any integrity to the game mode

therefore bitching over one champ who has only one reliable damage ability is even more stupid

MinardeMay 22, 20172 votes

You may be familiar with Sona on SR, but you're not familiar with Sona in ARAM, and that's fundamental to this discussion. The complaint isn't that Sona is excessively strong in general, but that she's excessively strong specifically in ARAM. Sona's performance in other modes is only relevant insofar as arguing that game-wide balance changes for her aren't needed.

Furthermore, it makes roughly as much sense to care about wins/losses in ARAM as for any other game mode. Unless you're in a full premade, you can't choose your team's champs or comp anywhere. To claim "ARAM is meaningless because random champs" is equivalent to claiming "Ranked is meaningless because Elo Hell."

Next, "clown fiesta" applies to every single mode in League. If you want to play something as a clown fiesta, that's simply your preference, not necessarily the innate state of a game mode.

Finally, it's absolutely possible to balance ARAM. Besides the various proposed options for handling ARAM-optimized accounts (e.g. whitelist, blacklist, full roster unlock), it's also possible to address specific champion outliers. Yes, the random nature means that occasionally one teamcomp will be vastly superior to the other. However, addressing outliers reduces the impact of any individual champion, improving the overall balance of the game mode.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoMay 22, 20171 votes

explain how sona on aram is worst then sona in SR ?

the difference is that its is nothing but a big clown fiesta in one lane and every one building damage and face rolling the key board. yes a sona with a FULL AP rune page and masteries does hurt... she hurts just as bad on SR... but the difference is ... on the ARAM map its hard for one player to gain a huge advantage in the game from cs or whatever cuz all it is an all out fight nonstop... therefore a champ like sona dont fall off as she would in SR and she builds full damage on ARAM but NEVER LESS she dont have a whole kit designed to do damage. she has Q and empowered Q or auto... and ult its not like she is DARIUS going full ad/armor pen and his entire kit is made to kill and do damage

so lets stop with the bs about how broken/oppressive sona is...

MinardeMay 23, 20171 votes

I can't "explain how sona on aram is worst then sona in SR" because that's the exact opposite of the current situation. Sona's better in ARAM than on SR.

Come to think of it, why have you been going on and on about Sona's damage? I explained fairly concisely why Sona's problematic in ARAM. Her damage by itself is not the issue.

Once again, if you're not familiar with the specific environment in question, you should probably refrain from comments like "so lets stop with the bs about how broken/oppressive sona is."

oSEXYPLATYPUSoMay 23, 20171 votes

that is what the OP is complaining about STAY ON TOPIC

MinardeMay 23, 20171 votes

Sona gets both [higher damage and better sustain (defense)] with her team wide shield and an escape on her E

OP is complaining about the same thing I mentioned. Namely that Sona's combination of offense, defense, and utility is problematic. You're the one who specifically focused on damage output.

BigBellBruteMay 22, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iAbJ1wGW,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2017-05-21T21:50:12.449+0000)

and people do that... but you cant control WHAT CHAMP IT GIVES YOU

You can control what it won't give you. It won't give you any champ you don't have and isn't on the freebie list. Further, they get RRs so if they get one they don't want, they RR. And if they're out of those they will dodge.

Linna ExcelMay 21, 20171 votes

Veigar is worse IMO.

BigBellBruteMay 22, 20171 votes

Sona's win rate is 68.1 But Zigg's win rate is 67.8. That's almost as imbalanced.

JavelinJoeMay 22, 20172 votes

Ziggs is not owned by as many, being more expensive, and while yes, he has a high win rate, that mainly is due to his high offensive tower taking, which can be stopped by a solid team, or MR. Sona is only stopped somewhat by summoner 14 item 3165 and item 3123 . But because she is able to work effectively from a defensive standpoint, she is much more difficult to play against. You also can dodge Zigg's abilities. Only Sona's R is dodgable, though it can be difficult being a wide AOE and quick cast time.

Both have very strong contributions in ARAM. But Sona's is more noticeable. Being able to effect the whole team both offensively and defensively is way more reliable than one person doing everything. In other words, because Sona is more useful since she can help her full team, while Ziggs can only make primarily individual contributions, she is more of an issue. Also, Ziggs needs to hit skillshots for his abilities, Sona presses a button and unless it is her ult, she hits a target.

SamsWrathNov 7, 20171 votes

{quoted}

It is just unfair. she has one of, if not the most consist high win-rates of all champions. She basically negates one of the biggest combat restrictions of ARAM (cant back to heal). Soraka has at least a trade off where she has to use her own health + mana and has to choose between higher damage or better sustain (defense). Sona gets both with her team wide shield and an escape on her E in case it fails somehow, all of which are more or less spamable with her innate 40% cdr. Normally she is gated by mana costs, but ARAM covers that with the increased mana regen.

And before some of you start complaining that it is ARAM, "All Random" is in the name, let me remind you that it is not "All Random". If it was, I could possibly play any champion in the game. But that is not how it works, I have to use only my own champion pool + the FotW pool. So no it is not at all "All Random".

I've been saying this for a while. Sona is broken in ARAM and has synergy with pretty much any team comp. Her heals aren't the best but, the team-wide shields and speed boost make her virtually unstoppable. I win maybe 1 in 10 games against a team with Sona and that is usually because the Sona gets cocky and we pick her off when she's out of position. Other times it's because her team has no front line and mine does and we jump in every chance we can to blow her up. Unfortunately, those are, like I said, about 1 in 10 games against a Sona comp.

I've had nights where I went against a comp with Sona 5 or 6 times in a row. It isn't fun and usually makes me quit for the night.

Her damage isn't what makes her broken, its the team-wide shields and speed. However, her Q damage is easy to apply and takes ZERO skill as it's a click not a skill shot. Her ult, while nothing special in normals is brutal in ARAM because in ARAM everyone is stuck in 1 small lane. Sona is OP--period. Right now her ARAM win-rate is just over 69%. I'm not sure where the 31% of losses occur but, they don't happen in the higher MMR ARAM matches where people build and play her properly.

IncognonymousNov 7, 20171 votes

Ahahaha, I made this very same thread last month. Sona reaches like 70% winrate in ARAM. Every day.

Remember the first URF? We HAD mode-wide permabans, like Sona and Hecarim, BECAUSE they were reaching the SAME winrate ARAM Sona reaches EVERY MOTHERFUCKING DAY.

It's indefensible. It really is. But Riot gave up on balancing non-SR maps long, long ago. Twisted Treeline probably has like, a year left, and Howling Abyss won't be far behind.

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/Ixsw2Zqb-if-the-enemy-gets-a-sona-in-aram