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Mana changes to mages affects their early game and item economy way more than riot thinks.

xxxMadLionxxx··7 votes·4,851 views

I think the mana changes are causing a deep-rooted problem that is going unnoticed by riot. For a mage to be good, they need XP. They need XP to level up their spells and to increase their spell base damage. They also need gold to scale and mage items are not as cheap as AD/ADC items. Here lies the problem.

Mages are having a hard time gaining both XP and gold because of the mana changes. Mages have to back more often as a result of mana. Once a mage backs, they are at a huge disadvantage and give their opponent a huge advantage. Their tower gets shoved in which results in them losing crucial XP, plus their opponent gains gold from tower plates and can even roam and pick up more kills. While the same can be said for any other lane or class in the game, the problem is they don't have to back as often as a mage.

Not having mana also means you can't farm. The economy of mage items are more expensive than ADCs. But if you can't farm or get kills, how are you supposed to get those items?

Not having mana means sitting under a tower while getting poked and harassed. This is not a fun or interactive experience.

Even with items like Ludens giving 500-600 mana, mages still go Oom mid to late game, forcing them to back throughout the entire game losing XP.

The overall results are mages are losing levels for early game spell damages and CS for mid-late game scaling from items.

Let me know your thoughts on the mana changes?

17 Comments

Soul Dealer4 votes

I think they are good. Mages have been too good for too long and knocking them down a bit is good.

MrFawknSunshine4 votes

learn to last hit as a mage?

5050BS1 votes

Riot needs to make AP affect auto attacks for Minions and Monsters

Its not like AD champs dont have spells/abilities that do damage

MrFawknSunshine1 votes

{quoted}

Riot needs to make AP affect auto attacks for Minions and Monsters

Its not like AD champs dont have spells/abilities that do damage

i think you meant this comment on the other thread but item 1041 does on hit ap damage to monsters from autos and in the jungle early levels ap champs arent going to have high AP any way to make using spells to clear worth while so having more attack speed to proc item 1041 item 1039 would increase the clears and they can still build into ap. not having +9 ap from flex runes wont hurt their damage out come that much and dont effect their build paths or rune paths /keystones

Saianna1 votes

mages have harder time last-hitting than anyone else (supports excluded, as they are ADC slaves and they have no permission to even look at minions). If the AP they had built also increased their AAs damage (as it used to be in one rune long time ago) then they'd be slightly better at last hitting.

MrFawknSunshine2 votes

{quoted}

mages have harder time last-hitting than anyone else (supports excluded, as they are ADC slaves and they have no permission to even look at minions). If the AP they had built also increased their AAs damage (as it used to be in one rune long time ago) then they'd be slightly better at last hitting.

but your auto attacks arent spells. mages use spells to do damage. and last hitting for a mage is the same for a tank. they arent getting ad to help last hit. and you still need to know how. and once a mage gets to a certain lvl/mana pool/regen they will just use their main wave clear tool and wipe out a wave with little to no issue. mages only have to worry about last hitting when having to protect their mana pool and before they at lvl where their spell will wave clear, and when this is the case they have item 1056 that provides 5 physical damage on hit to minions from autos to help LAST HIT.

ChaosReyn4 votes

Mages needed to be hit somewhere. And most of the strong ADC items actually cost less than the AP counterparts. The problem is that they have very few solid defensive options, especially against AD mid laners. AD mids have Hexdrinker, Lifesteal items, and Phantom Dancer to ensure they live and slaughter their lane over and over and over again. Mages have Rod of Ages, and Zhonyas, both of which give far less attack power than their AD counterparts, and one of which literally requires an additional 10 minutes after you buy it to even technically count.

We need better item diversity for mages...not more burst damage.

ChaosReyn2 votes

And yes, before I get the argument of "buying defensive items slows down AD mid kill potential!" I will say that while you're technically right, you're also playing a champion more than capable of dealing the sustained damage to finish off a mage on cooldown, and you have the ability in buying these items to do just that. Maybe its not an instant 100/0 in 0.5 like you want, but lets be reasonable here and say you're going to curbstomp the mage.

Moody P2 votes

AD champions generally have far less utility and innate defense through CC than mages, who also usually have superior range.

The trade off is fair.

HP Crookshanks4 votes

I find it ridiculous that mages have the worst mana pool out of all classes at level 18.

"BeCAusE tHey bUilD MAnA iTeMs!"

What a silly explanation. Then AD assassins should have the lowest AD at level 18 because they build AD items.

MrFawknSunshine2 votes

[{quoted}](name=HP Crookshanks,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iA1UYEvU,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-04-26T23:20:12.019+0000)

I find it ridiculous that mages have the worst mana pool out of all classes at level 18.

"BeCAusE tHey bUilD MAnA iTeMs!"

What a silly explanation. Then AD assassins should have the lowest AD at level 18 because they build AD items.

im tired of non tanks (bruisers/fighters/juggernauts) having as much HP and armor/mr as tanks with out tank items while scaling with damage, getting runes that gives them damage and healing and able to bully tanks in lane so tanks are an un viable class outside of support (ali, braum, naut, leaona)

LTK KoRo1 votes

yknow that bruisers have very similar amount of base armor/hp to adcs?

Sir Saltarin4 votes

Again mage propaganda, ah shit here we go again

5050BS1 votes

Some champs more then others

Malzahar ALL of his spells are 70+ mana a cast and his E only gives mana if IT kills it and is less mana then say Annie crazy mana regen

rhintheminstrel1 votes

Annie crazy mana regen

Nitpick but Annie's mana costs are quite high, her only aoe wave clear skill, W, costs 110 mana and that doesn't instantly kills caster minions until she has 200 AP. Her wave clear is mediocre at best. I can see why it's usually more than others since she can only spam Q.

Saianna1 votes

Mages getting hit once again? Who'd have guessed.

It's not a Riots game if mage class isn't hit at least once a year

Krupaz1 votes

TL;DR - I can't spam my spells off cd to waveclear without consequence, wtf Rito?!?!!?!!?

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