If you get exhausted there should be a short duration where you're immune to other exhausts

So I agree with you the argument he posed he didnt really defend it well at all. Ofc riven can get to you with her flash down but not easily.

And that is exactly why Riven is really flash reliant when it comes to teamfighting. I mean you need to use your E anyways (to cancel the ult cast and for the doublecast in case you don't engage with your 3rd Q) so all you have to escape is two Q charges.. And that won't help you a lot when being slowed.

Somewhat unrelated: Exhaust has an AS slow aswell so all she really has is the AA-WQ-R and shouldn't be able to do much more.

[{quoted}](name=404 shitlord,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=i60ocPGz,comment-id=0001000000000000000000010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-02-07T02:29:53.762+0000)

Again, that was your original point:

context: "Riven usually uses flash" (insultive words aside)

And thats your number one problem - you didnt understand the context. The context was which melee champions have some sort of disengage if/after they engage in case they get exhausted.

In the case of Riven, the guy I was responding to tried to make an argument that Riven gets screwed by Exhaust by not having any disengage. Lets break that down:

Youre honestly telling me that a champion with 4 dashes and 2 forms of hard CC doesnt have any disengage options? The reasoning? You spend all those dashes and all your CC gapclosing.

See, you bring up one specific context where Riven gets screwed - if you mindless go HAM then find yourself in a sticky situation. But guess what? In any context with any champion, if you mindlessly go HAM there isnt anything you can do. It doesnt matter if youre Riven or if youre Janna or if yorue Fizz; if you mindless spam all your abilties, no - you wont be able to disengage when after you engage and get exhausted. Its true for any champion.

No, my argument was a lot more narrower - if youre playing Riven, and you play her correctly, she has a lot of disengage options in her kit. Does that mean youll survive every time? No. It just means shes in a better position than say, Pantheon, at disengaging after she gets into a fight.

"It's not hard to disengage as a meele with all the mobility they have to compensate for not being ranged." (original quote that started the dispute)

Your main points that I disagree with

3: (in conclusion) Riven is not that affected by exhaust

When did I say Riven isnt affected by exhaust? As a burst caster, she is very much affected by exhaust since she loses a large portion of her damage.

Again, you confuse my point. My point isnt that she isnt affected by exhaust. My point is that she has options to disengage after she gets exhausted.

I did ask Adrian and he said that splitpush is generally the most effective option to play Riven - and that exhaust being up generally is a strong incentive to keep splitpushing instead of grouping with your team.

1. I want to see a reply
2. I want to see what he said about absolutely needing flash to engage
3. I want to see a reply about what he does when his enemy laner takes exhaust
4. I want to see why and how he got to Rank 1 (or 2 or whatever) playing Riven if she absolute gets wreaked in every team who takes exhaust and if you need your 5-minute cooldown flash to engage a fight. And how often he starts off fights with his E-R-3rdQ-Flash combo, and whether going HAM all the time regardless of your cooldowns is the way to play Riven.

{quoted}

And thats your number one problem - you didnt understand the context. The context was which melee champions have some sort of disengage if/after they engage in case they get exhausted.

I explained that exhaustingly thourough. You sadly do not understand Riven's engage patterns and overestimate the strength of 1 or maybe (!) 2 Q's.

No, my argument was a lot more narrower - if youre playing Riven, and you play her correctly, she has a lot of disengage options in her kit. Does that mean youll survive every time? No. It just means shes in a better position than say, Pantheon, at disengaging after she gets into a fight.

That doesn't make sense, Pantheon is extremely vulnerable to exhaust so naturally he may be more vulnerable (although I am not sure, 1 Riven q vs Panth passive + tankiness is probably equally helpful when it comes to disengaging).

Again, you confuse my point. My point isnt that she isnt affected by exhaust. My point is that she has options to disengage after she gets exhausted.

She may have some options, but they are fairly bad. The original discussion was about how it was very hard to just disengage after getting exhausted and it still is very hard whether she has a Q or not.

1. I want to see a reply
2. I want to see what he said about absolutely needing flash to engage
3. I want to see a reply about what he does when his enemy laner takes exhaust
4. I want to see why and how he got to Rank 1 (or 2 or whatever) playing Riven if she absolute gets wreaked in every team who takes exhaust and if you need your 5-minute cooldown flash to engage a fight. And how often he starts off fights with his E-R-3rdQ-Flash combo, and whether going HAM all the time regardless of your cooldowns is the way to play Riven.

Great, I can only recommend his stream!

(but point 4 is amusing though, how come that you are arguing with me how Riven/Riven engages work when you don't play Riven and how you are arguing with me about how Adrian plays when you never watched him).

Don't forgot about a E-F-AA-WQ variation combo!

[{quoted}](name=404 shitlord,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=i60ocPGz,comment-id=00010000000000000000000100000000000000000000000000000004,timestamp=2017-02-07T10:12:27.531+0000)

I explained that exhaustingly thourough. You sadly do not understand Riven's engage patterns and overestimate the strength of 1 or maybe (!) 2 Q's.

You might have explained it, but you missed the point of my post. Dont tell me what my own post means - i know what I posted. I was strictly talking about options Riven has to disengage after getting into the thick of a fight and getting exhausted.

That doesn't make sense, Pantheon is extremely vulnerable to exhaust so naturally he may be more vulnerable (although I am not sure, 1 Riven q vs Panth passive + tankiness is probably equally helpful when it comes to disengaging).

Which is exactly my point - Pantheon is extremely vulnerable to exhaust! (And Pantheon isnt really tankier than Riven unless he builds tankier. And think about that statement for a second - Pantheon builds tankier. Why? Not because he doesnt have good damage or scaling on his damage, and not because there isnt a plethora of lethality options that work very well with his kit. Its because he needs to build tankier to survive a fight.

Riven, on the other hand, has many more options with a more versatile gameplay. She can afford to build more damage and fulfill her role.

She may have some options, but they are fairly bad. The original discussion was about how it was very hard to just disengage after getting exhausted and it still is very hard whether she has a Q or not.

Ok - lets be honest here. Not many champions have "great" disengage options after getting exhausted.I'm talking about the best of a bad situation, and of the best of a bad situation, Riven has disengage options available to her. She isnt like an Aatrox or Rammus who need to fight their way out. She has some solid disengage options.

Great, I can only recommend his stream!

(but point 4 is amusing though, how come that you are arguing with me how Riven/Riven engages work when you don't play Riven and how you are arguing with me about how Adrian plays when you never watched him).

Just because I dont watch streamers and dont play Riven doesnt mean I cant understand her kit or how it works. Ive seen Youtube clips of Viper. Ive seen Huni play Riven in the LCS. Ive seen Faker's outplays on Riven. Ive seen highlights of Boxbox. And Ive seen them all kite around on Riven and turn bad situations into good ones by utilizing her mobility.