Check OP.GG, he's listed as the best support in the game. Not really that hard of a conclusion to come to, considering that he has ridiculous damage and aftershock makes it him a supertank in lane. What do you guys think?
YokoNomi26 votesThis is what happens when you don't milk the cow.
Death by Glamour2 votesyou first
[slayer-jinx-wink]
Velzard of Koz6 votesActually, aren't the players using him as freelo milking the cow?
[sg-lux-2]
YokoNomi6 votes[{quoted}](name=Velzard of Koz,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=i3ykN759,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2018-02-24T18:14:02.623+0000)
Actually, aren't the players using him as freelo milking the cow?
[sg-lux-2]
Nah. If he were being milked, he wouldn't be so aggressive. If you catch my meaning.
Demosthentine1 votesshhhhhh, we don't want riot to find out that ali is op. I need to get out of bronze.....
ChuShoe2 votesY O U C A N T M I L K T H O S E
Nea10412 votesRemove silly damage from tanks, give tanks tankiness. Tanks should tank, darn, not deal damage. I want to play a normal tank, not a "Riot version" one.
Rathar Dashing1 votesI think tanks should deal damage, yes, just significantly less or in more choreographed ways. Sion is a perfect example of this. Super tanky, has a shield ability. His Q does lots of damage and has powerful CC but he makes himself more vulnerable using it. His W deals percent max health damage, but he has to be tanky to actually get the damage off. His E is an AoE slow that reduces armor, the perfect kind of supporting move a tank should have. And finally, his ult does some good damage but is mostly great for its ability to initiate fights for a team.
Nea1041 votes[{quoted}](name=Rathar Dashing,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=i3ykN759,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2018-02-24T20:22:00.017+0000)
I think tanks should deal damage, yes, just significantly less or in more choreographed ways. Sion is a perfect example of this. Super tanky, has a shield ability. His Q does lots of damage and has powerful CC but he makes himself more vulnerable using it. His W deals percent max health damage, but he has to be tanky to actually get the damage off. His E is an AoE slow that reduces armor, the perfect kind of supporting move a tank should have. And finally, his ult does some good damage but is mostly great for its ability to initiate fights for a team.
Yeah but if I don't get wrong he now has an OP % win ratio because of his damage, besides his tankiness, due to Comet and stuff. I don't think a tank shoud both tank & deal damage; he should (indeed) tank, and of course cc...
Rathar Dashing1 votesI looked it up, he does indeed have an overly high win% but I highly attribute that to the new runes. His highest winrate rune is actually Guardian, with comet being his 5th best choice (of the five players usually take). What I was mainly referring to was the design of Sion, he's great on paper even if his numbers are a bit high right now. Tanks should be able to do SOME damage, just not to the level where they can delete squishies on demand if they get close, a la Leona and Alistar. Otherwise you'd end up with two tanks slapping each other for 0 damage in top lane, or a tank being bullied by a bruiser with no way to fight back, or tank junglers taking 5 years to get their first clear done.
y0r1ck2 votesI think you meant telegraphed instead of choreographed.
Rathar Dashing1 votesWhat's the difference?
Bob the Toastr8 votesChoreographed usually means something along the lines of "well planned out" Ex. if you were Teemo and had shooms in just the right places where the enemy would run over the right number of them and die, that is choreographed.
Telegraphed usually means that you let people (especially your enemies) know in advance what was going to happen. As a result, they have time to prepare or counter whatever strategy. A good example of this is global ult sounds such as Kled or Sion. Even if you can't see them when they start ulting, you can usually guess where they are headed and prepare for if they are coming your way. In a sense, the global sound "telegraphs" the fact that they are using a powerful ability, so you have time to react.
Rathar Dashing2 votesThanks for a real answer.
y0r1ck1 votesBitch wtf don't be so lazy. Google it
nyakasgoods1 votesAlso, the word choreography carries with it a strong connotation of dance and performing arts which makes it awkward when not used in those contexts.
T4underbolt2 votesThere is an easy fix. Make tanks damage early game low. Nerf base AD drastically so tanks can't out trade you by auto attacks alone after missing half their kit. And then nerf early base damage on abilities. Tanks need to have weak laning phase to justify scaling to late. Currently tanks have not only much survavibility but also sht ton of DMG.
Rathar Dashing1 votesI think the only one of those changes that needs to happen is the less base damage on abilites. Nerfing AD would make tank CS terrible (especially with the +5 damage CS removal) but it would also mke trading worse. If you're letting a tank auto you after they miss their kit, you're playing against them poorly. Tanks need their surviability, but if you take away what they need to scale, then they suck throughout the game.
LordGeovanni1 votesRemove silly damage from tanks, give tanks tankiness. Tanks should tank, darn, not deal damage. I want to play a normal tank, not a "Riot version" one.
tanks should do both as they arent getting any range to do them from. which is what they trade off. while adcs deal damage drain tank have cc have extra mobility and long range
F3EDfromDesIr311 votesAftershock is the problem, not Ali. 80 Mr/Armor is just way to much early Levels.
NorthernRedStar1 votesAftershock is the problem, not Ali. 80 Mr/Armor is just way to much early Levels.
This. I have no idea what they were thinking when they buffed the rune. Alistar was always easy to punish if he went in at the wrong time and place. Now he just walks out and takes no damage.
Daddy Ants9 votesRemember when they wanted to nerf 
but thought 
wasn't a problem?
XD
Done256 votesAfter shock just needs less armor/mr at early levels. Ali has zero range beyond his headbutt. He has no way to poke or CS from a distance. He has no way to escape from a bad fight beyond headbutting someone away and hoping that that's enough.
Elohaven1 votesTaric - yes.
Leona - no.
Death by Glamour4 votesmaybe revert the change that made is combo so braindead for a start
CHODES AND LOADS4 voteshe does damage early game when literally everyone does too much damage, and then it falls facefirst off a cliff around level 10. you people are morons.
ÈvilMorty4 votesthe relic line hp nerf is nerf enough for all the tank sups
BALDG1VEN BOOMER3 votesRevert his E if they're gonna keep aftershock it synergies too well with his kit and if he lands the E is guarantees his aftershock proc after his combo, unlike Leona, Taric etc that you can kite it out.
Rico Nasty3 votesAli is not the problem, these new runes are. Aftershock needs to be toned down dramatically.
Barkley2 votesThis is it. Right here.
Aftershock needs to either do insane damage, OR make you ridiculously tanky.
It should not do both.
BigBonedCartman2 votese dmg down at liv 1 from 100 to 80 and hp nerf
Support Boyyy2 votesI would perma ban him in ranked if I wasn't so afraid of Blitzcrank
Sex With Annie2 votesHis passive on top of relic shield on top of fleet footwork make it so the ADC is pretty much always topped off on health
Daunt1 votesIndirect nerfs are enough honestly. Aftershock is too good atm and needs to be toned down. Plus they nerfed the support item to give out less HP.
BoilTheOil1 votesand sion
Bisaknosp1 voteshim and ryze
Emo Twink1 votesI just have issues always being towerdove at level 6 and both him and his adc walking away safely... Towers need percentage max health damage or something.
2Charmnot2Charm1 votesAfthershock ether needs it's resistances early game lowered a lot or the static 20 second cooldown needs to be nerfed.
