I don't care about how much damage garen/annie can do

SwapShadows·Aug 28, 2015·32 votes·1,379 views

I care about how braindead easy they are to play whilst also being cancer.

39 Comments

Sakura MirageAug 28, 201511 votes

Who cares how easy they are what's the difference you still have to have game knowledge map awareness and all the other small things not everything is based off of a champion.

Goodest GamerAug 28, 20154 votes

tfw you are punished for killing someone on garens team and because of this you deserve to lose all of your hp in seconds from full tank cleaver garen.

PhifeAug 29, 20151 votes

Positioning is really hard vs someone with no engage other than a 30% ms boost. Lmao...

Big LincolnAug 29, 20151 votes

i can't really sit in the back line if i'm Sejuani ;c

Goodest GamerAug 30, 20152 votes

item 3742 item 3071

you really are smart :^)

PhifeAug 30, 20151 votes

how is black cleaver an engage?

Goodest GamerAug 30, 20151 votes

it gives him enough movement speed with the other items to allow him to do laps around a team. hes broken, stop argueing.

SwapShadowsAug 28, 20159 votes

[{quoted}](name=Janna Smurf,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=i31JJvvz,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-08-28T22:25:23.848+0000)

Who cares how easy they are what's the difference you still have to have game knowledge map awareness and all the other small things not everything is based off of a champion.

because they give too much reward for how braindead they are to play

ApexInTheCircleAug 29, 20151 votes

{quoted}

because they give too much reward for how braindead they are to play

If I remember correctly you're a Zed main. Also if I'm not mistaken, Annie and Garen pretty much crap on all assassins......Just making an observation.

Silents429Aug 29, 20156 votes

And then the coin is flipped where everyone bitches about how they release more mechanically complex champions.

Let simple champions exist if they aren't a broken, and that's the case with Annie and Garen.

Annie might have a limited amount of forms to counterplay but being called cancerous is just hyperbole.

SwapShadowsAug 29, 20154 votes

{quoted}

And then the coin is flipped where everyone bitches about how they release more mechanically complex champions.

Let simple champions exist if they aren't a broken, and that's the case with Annie and Garen.

Annie might have a limited amount of forms to counterplay but being called cancerous is just hyperbole.

She has one of the highest bursts in the game and it's instant, that's pretty broken for someone that easy to play.

Silents429Aug 29, 20158 votes

Her ult is instant, not the burst.

It isn't broken it's just anti fun.

She still gets countered by any mid laner with range. So just about all of them.

The only time those "ANNIE CAN TIBBER STUN MY ENTIRE TEAM AND BURST !NIQNBFQ" scenarios is when fools decide to stay grouped up next to each other against an Annie.

TurquoiseYoshiAug 29, 20151 votes

She also has incredible laning, as her Q has resets and mana refunds on kill. People seem to forget about that one. In any case, if she isn't 1v5ing your team, her ult not hitting all 5 team members is okay. She has the ability, but not the need to hit + stun everyone with a ginormous nuke.

Silents429Aug 29, 20151 votes

Which is no different then any of the assassins and burst midlaners that are capable of deleting people and escaping right away before they know what hit them.

She has problems, but she is still short ranged and heavily reliant on that stun, almost always requiring a flash to be useful, while other champions can insta kill people while being mobile.

TurquoiseYoshiAug 29, 20151 votes

Except most assassins and burst midlaners blow up one person and wait for cooldowns to reset. Annie has the ability to blow up 3-5 if the enemy is grouped together. She also can itemize for her weakness (long Flash CD) while itemizing for other burst champions weaknesses (single targeting) is a lot harder to do.

BluePolarizerAug 29, 20151 votes

position better. I haven't had a problem with enemy Annies and at least in plat, Annies on your team always seem feed the enemy Ahri/Lux/Viktor.

Silents429Aug 29, 20153 votes

I am confused, after Annie bursts she still has to wait for cooldowns too? And flash, a summoner spell, very valuable, only escape on an immobile champion is needed to compensate her range.

And like I said if you are being a bunch of dumbasses that the small Tibber radius is affected your whole team you deserve the pain she is giving, because you are positioning yourselves so stupidly.

MimaropaAug 29, 20152 votes

I agree with you.

Annie has very clear weaknesses. Her range is the worst, her only low CD ability is q which can atleast be 3 sec, she's immoblie, her "tanky" items only give her hp(roa and rylais except zhonyas but only gives 50) so she's still fairly squishy if focused by a team, she relies on her stun which is pretty visible when she has it(if laning against her, try trading and poking her when she has 1-2 stacks in which her q might be on half CD when she uses it for farming.

There's a lot more I could put but I don't want to make it excruciatingly long. Guys, just learn how to play against her and not just complain because of her kit. All champs have counterplay even if its a few.

TurquoiseYoshiAug 29, 20151 votes

Let's compare LeBlanc, a standard assassin, and Annie. LeBlanc has her Q to mark people, W and E to hit them, and R to re-hit them. In no real way does she have multi-target damage, and can only hit one person, and get the hell out. She then has kit tools to do that. Annie, on the other hand, is there to blow everyone up and let her teammates clean up whatever she didn't. If she was able to hit a Flash-Ult, her team already won a teamfight.

As I noted, Tibbers hitting up to 3-4 is easily worth. People always say "OH WELL DON'T GROUP AROUND ANNIE DURHUR!" and not remembering that it's still and AoE nuke + stun. Is a Gnar ult useless if it only hits 3 people? No. Is a Sejuani ult useless if it only hits 3 people? No. An Annie ult is still useful if she doesn't hit everyone on the enemy team. If they are anywhere near each other, then you should be able to hit at least 3. The radius really isn't that small. It's got a radius of 290 which makes no sense until I tell you that, as comparison, Kog'maw's ult has a radius of 100.

Silents429Aug 29, 20151 votes

Let's compare LeBlanc, a standard assassin, and Annie. LeBlanc has her Q to mark people, W and E to hit them, and R to re-hit them. In no real way does she have multi-target damage, and can only hit one person, and get the hell out. She then has kit tools to do that. Annie, on the other hand, is there to blow everyone up and let her teammates clean up whatever she didn't. If she was able to hit a Flash-Ult, her team already won a teamfight.

Le Blanc is also capable of jumping right back in right away to finish off another carry as well as burst down some tanks, all the while having laughably low mana costs and high mobility and tricks to make it a pain in the ass to ever stop her.

Annie on the other hand can reliably kill 1 person, assuming she can get to them before getting killed off herself. And assuming she does pick off someone she is completely screwed at that point because she has no escape or much defense after her combo.

As I noted, Tibbers hitting up to 3-4 is easily worth. People always say "OH WELL DON'T GROUP AROUND ANNIE DURHUR!" and not remembering that it's still and AoE nuke + stun. Is a Gnar ult useless if it only hits 3 people? No. Is a Sejuani ult useless if it only hits 3 people? No. An Annie ult is still useful if she doesn't hit everyone on the enemy team. If they are anywhere near each other, then you should be able to hit at least 3. The radius really isn't that small. It's got a radius of 290 which makes no sense until I tell you that, as comparison, Kog'maw's ult has a radius of 100.

The AOE of Tibbers is really small. Anyone who has played Annie knows the feeling of waiting for the perfect time to ult + flash, a competent team knows not to give her that chance. Also Tibbers is a big ass bear and Kog'Maw ult is a narrow projectile.

And again I stress she is required to burn a summoner spell to get off her combo almost every single time.

TurquoiseYoshiAug 29, 20151 votes

LeBlanc does not have that much damage. She honestly needs to wait for her ult to be back up to get another kill. She has the mobility because of she gets a kill, she can't do anything else so she gets the hell out.

Annie doesn't work the same way as Leblanc. Annie Flash-ult-Ws a large (2-4) group of enemies, and lets her team clean up the fight. LeBlanc picks off a carry, which gives her team an advantage in an upcoming fight. I compared them in the way of comparing Annie's playstyle to assassins' playstyle. Stop comparing LeBlanc to Annie directly as if they play the same way.

Tibbers' AoE is decently large for how much damage it does. If the enemy team is grouped for a siege or for another objective, you should be able to hit 2+ enemies easily. I also apologize for comparing to Kog, I couldn't really think of anything good to compare to.

She can lower the cooldown of Flash with Distortion boots. That's what I meant a while ago when I said that she could itemize against her major weakness.

Silents429Aug 29, 20151 votes

LeBlanc does not have that much damage. She honestly needs to wait for her ult to be back up to get another kill. She has the mobility because of she gets a kill, she can't do anything else so she gets the hell out.

Just like Annie..

Annie doesn't work the same way as Leblanc. Stop comparing LeBlanc to Annie directly as if they play the same way.

Do you know what irony is? You are the one who even brought Le Blanc up to try comparing the two.

Tibbers' AoE is decently large for how much damage it does. If the enemy team is grouped for a siege or for another objective, you should be able to hit 2+ enemies easily.

Well heres an idea, stop grouping together against Annie.

This isn't hard. Just move a little to the left.

She can lower the cooldown of Flash with Distortion boots. That's what I meant a while ago when I said that she could itemize against her major weakness.

That doesn't mean Flash isn't a summoner spell or also her only means of escape.

Annie Flash-ult-Ws a large (2-4) group of enemies, and lets her team clean up the fight.

Stop viewing Annie in just her prime game where the enemies are a bunch of braindead idiots that group up letting her do this. One of her biggest counters that everyone is capable of is just not standing next to each other when she is nearby, this itself invalidates the entirety of what you have been trying to set Annie up as.

You don't even point out the actual issues with her, she has a decent stun and high damage, it doesn't matter if it's AOE or anything like that. The problem she has is there is nothing you can do against her burst when it does occur.

TurquoiseYoshiAug 29, 20151 votes

Annie doesn't try to pick people off with her ult. I have never actually seen a smart Annie do that, because it's a huge waste and you can win a fight without it.

I brought up LeBlanc as a different champion in playstyle. You seem to be under the impression that they have the exact same playstyle.

When 5 people are going after 1 objective, you kinda have to be a bit close to each other.

Flash isn't the only summoner spell in the game. If you're really that afraid of getting killed immediately, bring Ghost or Barrier or Heal.

Annie's ult isn't a tiny little teddy bear appearing on the map. It's a pretty big radius. If you are not an Annie main, you would probably accidentally stand too close to some teammates and give up a decent ult.

If you just acknowledge those points as being valid, I don't have to argue them.

Silents429Aug 29, 20151 votes

When 5 people are going after 1 objective, you kinda have to be a bit close to each other.

Not close enough to where any more then 1 of you should be hit by it. The objectives in this game allow plenty of space.

Flash isn't the only summoner spell in the game. If you're really that afraid of getting killed immediately, bring Ghost or Barrier or Heal.

So her kill potential is further being limited to further make up for her weakness by things that hardly help it.

And yes Annie does need Ignite on the occasion in order to kill targets.

TurquoiseYoshiAug 29, 20151 votes

It depends. Sometimes when trying to hit a turret you have to be either grouped up or in a terrible situation where your team is all split up.

Annie doesn't really need Ignite early, and that's the main use for Ignite. She isn't a very powerful laning champion. She tends to just safely farm with Q and wait for jungle pressure to get stuns and kills.

NadaliusAug 29, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Her ult is instant, not the burst.

It isn't broken it's just anti fun.

She still gets countered by any mid laner with range. So just about all of them.

The only time those "ANNIE CAN TIBBER STUN MY ENTIRE TEAM AND BURST !NIQNBFQ" scenarios is when fools decide to stay grouped up next to each other against an Annie.

They should have mana break in this game.

but muh anti-fun okay explain these monsters Rito

Kalista LeeSin Rengar Riven Vladimir Yasuo Fizz Darius Garen Ahri

LankPantsAug 29, 20151 votes

And then the coin is flipped where everyone bitches about how they release more mechanically complex champions.

There's a middle ground. Champs like Ziggs come to my mind.

Silents429Aug 29, 20151 votes

Ziggs is simple. Braum or Bard are closer to middle grounds.

LankPantsAug 29, 20151 votes

Ziggs is simple.

He's a thousand times more complex than Annie. His kit actually has some choice given to players, like his W being both CC for his enemy and an escape for him.

Braum or Bard are closer to middle grounds.

Bard is not a middle ground. He's a very complex character who requires many games to understand properly. Braum is a middle ground sort of character.

Silents429Aug 29, 20151 votes

Counterplay is the word you are looking for, Zigg doesn't have a difficult kit at all.

Bard also has a simplistic kit but a higher skill ceiling to allow more from less.

More complex then Braum but still middle ground.

LankPantsAug 29, 20151 votes

Counterplay is the word you are looking for

No I'm looking for player choice. There's more than one way to use Zigg's W, E and R, which creates some complexity in his kit.

There's only a single way to use all of Annie's spells, see champion, kill champion.

This leads to Annie having an incredibly simplistic kit that often works out to be more of a stat-check (and as such lowers counterplay) than anything else.

TransgressorAug 29, 20151 votes

And despite that even freaking Garen got an indicator for when his ult can kill you. Meanwhile Annie's ult has no counterplay, her Q is undodgeable and her W is instant.

Tencent please...

TormythAug 29, 20151 votes

{quoted}

And despite that even freaking Garen got an indicator for when his ult can kill you. Meanwhile Annie's ult has no counterplay, her Q is undodgeable and her W is instant.

Tencent please...

ult has no counterplay? Lux Malzahar Morgana Vladimir Velkoz Ziggs summoner 1 item 3102 item 3140 item 3157

TransgressorAug 29, 20151 votes

Are those supposed to be what, Annie counters or something? Nah, give her counterplay AND counters.

Deal with it.

TormythAug 29, 20151 votes

i can list more but im sure they could all manage annie with ease.

RebonackAug 29, 20151 votes

Why should mechanically simpler champions deal less damage?

CatastropAug 29, 20151 votes

Because they're there for new players.

RebonackAug 29, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Because they're there for new players.

Why should champions that are easy for new players to grasp deal less damage?

CatastropAug 29, 20151 votes

I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying they're so easy play because they are for new players. What would be the point of a bunch of mechanics on champions bought by newbies who want to learn? It would just confuse them.