@Riot, from the way you stated your preseason changes it..

Trash MammaI··3 votes·678 views

It doesn't seem healthy for the game at all, you're buffing some champs crazy hard and guttings others while also making snowballing so much stronger on those champs that tend to snowball far too hard.

I know it's too early to say anything but from what I read http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/features/preseason-2016-crests-horizon (source) I can already see horrible issues you'll run into before we even get to that point

For the second goal, we’re removing Stealth Wards from the shop so teams will need to rely more heavily on their pink (and blue trinket!) wards to get the vision control they need. In tandem with this change, however, we’re also adding a new feature in ward ‘debris’ when a ward passes on. By giving you the ability to see the dead bodies of wards who’ve moved on with their lives, you’ll be able to learn more about your opponent’s vision habits as well as your own.

You stated you plan to remove stealth wards and make teams rely more on the pink and blue wards. You generously (and I love you for it) gave us basically a cheap sighstone with stealth ward trinkets. You made it 10x less expensive to apply vision control over the map than it use to be. There are still people who will go 40+ minutes into a game and never upgrade their trinket and barely place down their 1 ward. This happens more often than you think. Removing stealth wards will honestly just go back to making supports being "ward bitches" as a lot of people have said. There's also the fact people like lee sin / katarina etc. who relied a ton on ward hoping will be even less useful

As for sustain items: we first started with health and mana potions. Health pots are going up in price to better position them as a purchase for those who just need some sustain to get them past the early game. Any form of long-term sustain we folded into the refillable potions (and their subsequent upgrades) to really solidify their identity (because before, it was… flask and potions to be a ‘sustain’ build). Mana potions, on the other hand, are being removed. Our decision to remove mana pots goes along the same philosophy as starting items. 100 mana tends to benefit certain types of champions over others (with mana costs being balanced against individual champion kits) and can wildly shift from being a mediocre purchase to a very cost-efficient one. By removing mana pots, we can better balance champion ability costs with the mana regeneration stat while also streamlining the ‘sustain game’ of League.

This is what makes me even more concerned, mana bots being taken out and health pots going up, you seem to have the wrong idea on the purpose of these items. These pots were some champs ONLY chance of being able to even lane in come matchups.

Take Riven for example, you honestly have no chance of laning vs a Riven who has even a shred of her brain functioning correctly. Not without a ton of those pots. Resourceless champs are just going to become all the better.

I understand you're doing this and plan to get data about it then balance around things, but knowing you (not going to bash on you) you won't take the necessary precautions if certain champs start to snowball uncontrollably and disable them from play (or at least ranked) until you balance them accordingly.

Details are still being sussed out, but expect to meet something new on Summoner’s Rift in the early phases of the game. Defeat it, and gain single target buff focused on early game power and pushing down the lane.

This is my biggest concern. I don't know what stats this thing will give but if it's focusing on early game power/lane pushing you're ASKING for champs to snowball hard..again I take you back to Riven a champ who inherently wins her lane automatically after a single kill on you. Giving this type of champion early game power would just let her snowball even harder or faster.

Let's say she does become too strong (hah as if she already isn't) and you nerf her someone like Pantheon who already has a strong early game will just rise then you nerf him then MonkeyKing will rise and he gets nerfed and it never stops.

If you want to make top lane feel more like it's apart of a team nerf bot lane. The only reason why mid lane is any more relevant than top lane is because mid lane is closer to them. Top lane has its own role and any main of that lane can tell you what it is. Bot lane currently outshines every other role in the game that lane needs to stop being the center of the game

24 Comments

Big Lincoln2 votes

bot lane is the center of the game because there's two people there and an early objective that becomes free

top lane having an early objective is an amazing idea because it'll encourage more variety in where people go and gives mid a reason to roam top instead of bot if an objective can be grabbed

Ralanr1 votes

Yay! Top lane is no longer an island! It's a peninsula!

Big Lincoln1 votes

i'm actually pretty interested to see how this shakes things up

we could probably start seeing duo top pressure lanes that give up dragon for the buff and counter-teams for that, or maybe the return of roaming supports to help leash the herald'

the worst thing that comes to mind is we start seeing every lane taking teleport

Ralanr1 votes

Duo Top...you know that's a scary thought.

I'm intrigued.

Big Lincoln1 votes

Mordekaiser Leona duo top

are u scared yet

Ralanr1 votes

Pantheon Taric

IDK.

Big Lincoln1 votes

Darius Blitzcrank ?

Blade of Justic1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Solomon Money,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=i007ko1L,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-10-28T18:39:26.271+0000)

bot lane is the center of the game because there's two people there and an early objective that becomes free

top lane having an early objective is an amazing idea because it'll encourage more variety in where people go and gives mid a reason to roam top instead of bot if an objective can be grabbed

I agree with this except for one problem. The top objective goes to a single person. Where as Dragon goes to the whole team. I would stand to guess that most people would want to buff their team over buffing one guy.

Big Lincoln1 votes

idk we'll have to see what the buff is first

hopefully it encourages more varied lanes and roaming teams can decide who gets the buff or the jungler can take it and focus down a lane he wants to take early

Trash MammaI1 votes

There's only 2 ways that buff would be worth anything, it'll either be horrendously overpowered which brings me back to Riven . If the buff is so good that it gives a clear advantage over the laner, someone like Riven who snowballs out of control over a single kill will dominate top lane all together. Which will then have top laners being nerfed one after the other

OR the buff won't make enough of an impact to the point the jungler will just go for it and still ignore top lane.

They're going to either have to nerf the buff it gives which will make junglers take it and top lane will be the same or they'll have to nerf top laners which nobody wants. This is my speculation at least. Giving red/blue buff to a laner already shows clear sign of dominance when they get their hands on it. Putting that type of advantage into top lane?

I don't want a Riven 1 shotting me in lane everytime I get back to it because she got the buff (she does that anyway) I don't want a Wukong ulting my team and killing them all alone because he got the buff etc. etc.

People may not realize it but snowballing is a huge issue in this game and when some champs snowball..they do it hard..really hard

Big Lincoln1 votes

you don't know what the buff is yet, though

depends on what it is that'll define its usefulness and whether you give it to your top laner, your mid, or take it for yourself

Verxint1 votes

It's funny you use Riven as an example, she usually starts with 3 pots because her early sustain is so weak.

Shroom Junkie2 votes

Her early sustain was only made weak because of her low CD shield allowing her to block most poke from a non-poke-oriented laner(like Karthus). Her enemy laners still need pots to survive her onslaught unless they're ranged like Gnar.

Beuhlakor1 votes

There will be refillable pots.

Shroom Junkie1 votes

That too, but it would make her early game a lot weaker because she doesn't have her Long Sword/Doran's Blade.

Trash MammaI1 votes

I used Riven as an example because vs her you usually start 5 pots (or flash + 3) because her early oppressiveness is so strong

Killer of Poros1 votes

I'm more worried about the removal of mana pots. It's probably not going to affect to many champs but ad casters are going to be either strong because mana becomes even less of an issue or they'll become even weaker because they have no reliable way of regening their mana except for their base mana regen.

Beuhlakor1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Maximum Pantheon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=i007ko1L,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-10-28T18:31:48.745+0000)

I'm more worried about the removal of mama pots. It's probably not going to affect to many champs but ad casters are going to be either strong because mama has become even less of an issue or they'll become even weaker because they have no reliable way of regening their mama except for their base mama Regan.

Go to reddit. Riot confirmed that most champions got their mana regen or mana pool buffed.

Also, there will be refillable pots.

Ralanr1 votes

But wouldn't that remove Pantheon's weakness? He's really high in mana cost early game.

The Whamboozler1 votes

You typed "Mama" or "mama pot" 4 times. This cannot be a simple typo if you've done it that many times. Is this some sort of goofy new slang of which I am unaware?

Killer of Poros1 votes

I didn't look at what I wrote and auto correct decided to make me look stupid for it.

Stephenizgod1 votes

I disagree with a lot of what you said, mostly because it is a lot of conjecture and assumptions. We do not know EVERYTHING they are changing, they just let us in on a few of the things they are looking to, probably not everything.

As far as wards go, how will it be negative? In 99% of all my games (even with a Lee or Kat) the support (usually me) is the only person who actually buys any wards and thats only if they can't pick up sightstone. The only ward anyone places is their trinket, giving them a free upgrade allows them to ward even more. This is only a good thing, how is this a negative? I think ward hopping is BS anyways because it gives free power to champions who can do it...

I'm a little worried about mana pots being gone, but they said they will then collect data and balance champions around that. That means champions who rely heavily on mana pots just to farm will be getting their mana and mana regen buffed most likely. There is a refillable health pot now so I'm pretty sure that means they are keeping early sustain for those who need it to lane, although I'm not sure why they are upping the cost of Health Pots. When you are ahead and winning you usually don't buy a ton of pots. We will have to wait and see.

I love the Rift Herald idea! Anything that can bring attention to Top Lane other then "We gotta get Fiora/Darius fed!" is a good thing. This Rift Herald will allow certain Top Laners to push really hard and I am worried about that, but it could also help in unfavorable match-ups so I'm excited.

Trash MammaI1 votes

As far as wards go, how will it be negative? In 99% of all my games (even with a Lee or Kat) the support (usually me) is the only person who actually buys any wards and thats only if they can't pick up sightstone. The only ward anyone places is their trinket, giving them a free upgrade allows them to ward even more. This is only a good thing, how is this a negative? I think ward hopping is BS anyways because it gives free power to champions who can do it...

They're removing stealth wards. Making us rely on pink/blue wards (this is their words) nobody is gonna upgrade the farsight orb and get the ward from it and nobody is gonna buy pinks but the support. It's how the game always is.

Sneakyy XD1 votes

Yep these are all the changes they're making. Nothing else will change. We are all doomed.

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