These black cleaver changes... why exactly?

Death by Glamour·Dec 6, 2017·1 votes·670 views

i understand you want to give a helping hand to darius renekton and perhaps riven, but why also buff Wu, J4, garen and pantheon (lets not forget about jayce/graves/lucian)? All 4 are doing great right now.

Yes i understand that you want to give tanks aka sion mao and shen a bit of a counter in lane but do you honestly think the traditional "bruisers" will not be effected by these buffs?

can we actually start nerfing things instead of the contants buffing, if the tanks are a problem nerf them

these ill thought out blanket buffs cause more problems than they end up solving

20 Comments

JackMcSnipeyzDec 6, 20174 votes

Graves 45% winrate is doing great? Lucian 46% winrate is doing great? What?

Death by GlamourDec 6, 20171 votes

jungle is a completly different ball game

and bot lane is a mess, every adc thats not ez or mf is sub par

DreadlocksDec 6, 20172 votes

Uhh, your argument is much weaker when half of it is wrong.. Also, this is just a revert from an earlier nerf. last year.

Death by GlamourDec 6, 20171 votes

i didnt say they were doing great...

JackMcSnipeyzDec 6, 20171 votes

You mentioned them, implying they will become a problem, which is unlikely seeing as they need much more love in their current state.

Death by GlamourDec 6, 20172 votes

a buff designed to help imobile melee bruisers which ends buffing atleast 3 counters...

remember what i said about these buffs cause more harm than good?

i didnt even mention MF and what it will do to her winrate

lucian doesnt need that much help, just mf and ez to be nerfed

jayce is fine

graves as i said is in a stramge spot with the jungle

but as per usual the boards pick up the smallest thing which they think wrong and run with it rather than seeing the big picture

but i guarantee you that we will see a rise in the winrate with panth/wu/j4/garen ect while darius will stay sub 50%

JackMcSnipeyzDec 6, 20171 votes

The buff is not melee only, it's to black cleaver users against tanks as a whole. The buff to melee champs you're looking for is in grasp the undying which almost became a tanky version of fervor.

AR URFDec 6, 20174 votes

idk why about pantheon, but juggernauts desperately need this.

Death by GlamourDec 6, 20172 votes

why not buff darius e armour pen?

AR URFDec 6, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pink Leg Warmers,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hwWzJIA4,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2017-12-06T14:24:59.529+0000)

why not buff his e armour pen?

I have not read the patch notes yet, but idk pantheon is fine where he's at. he needs to be left alone because of how strong he is.

Death by GlamourDec 6, 20171 votes

i was talking about darius sorry

FuhrerRicoDec 6, 20171 votes

Actually good point, and same for renekton. I think one of the things that used to define darius and make him valuable/unique was his true damage and extra armor pen. Now the armor pen feels sub-par compared to a lot of champs that either have higher (albeit slightly situational) in-kit armor pen, or can apply a de-buff for other allies to make use of, AKA champs like J4, VI, Garen, Nasus, yasuo, etc. Not only that, but armor pen, both flat and %, is really easy to acquire in multiple forms for any adc, fighter, or assassin. I think dar could use a little more to stay current or maybe have some additional scaling based off from flat and % armor pen to help encourage more diverse builds, like say plus 15% damage on W for every flat or % armor pen purchased. Just a thought, numbers would have to be worked out for balance.

Death by GlamourDec 6, 20171 votes

and just to point out only darius needs it garen is doing fine

NefariousQuackDec 6, 20172 votes

Because Riot is really bad at considering the full scope of the impact a buff to BC makes, and honestly even then, I still think the strength of tanks atm warrants BC buffs no matter the cost.

PennsDec 6, 20171 votes

why them Cassiopeia buffs tho xd

HammermancerDec 7, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pink Leg Warmers,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hwWzJIA4,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-12-06T14:17:52.883+0000)

i understand you want to give a helping hand to darius renekton and perhaps riven, but why also buff Wu, J4, garen and pantheon (lets not forget about jayce/graves/lucian)? All 4 are doing great right now.

Jayce is going to stay the same strength, the E nerf is going to counter the cleaver buff, and the grasp buff wont apply to him, so other champs in the lane are actually going to rise up and push him out again, His traditional issues are with certain bruisers that can close the game or basically just negate his Q or melee E in one way or another

Wu kinda needs a buff

j4 wont be broke by the buff

garen? garen always needs a buff bro, like seriously

pantheon? Meh, he's important

Graves is weak rn

lucian is weak rn

Yes i understand that you want to give tanks aka sion mao and shen a bit of a counter in lane but do you honestly think the traditional "bruisers" will not be effected by these buffs?

Sion is a juggernaut, he's getting buffed by cleaver buffs.

also "Affected"

also, Shen doesn't get buffed ever, that's the rule of rito,

And mao is straight up buffed right now

can we actually start nerfing things instead of the contants buffing, if the tanks are a problem nerf them

Buff more things until the weaker things are as op as the op things, and honestly I don't think tanks are the issue, I think the issue is a combination of lack-of-itemization with passives, and poor rune synergy for multiple classes of champs in top lane

these ill thought out blanket buffs cause more problems than they end up solving

i'm only worried about the grasp buff on riven, that's literally it

otherwise it seems fine to me

Death by GlamourDec 7, 20171 votes

Wu kinda needs a buff

j4 wont be broke by the buff

garen? garen always needs a buff bro, like seriously

pantheon? Meh, he's important

no they do not need buffs

Sion is a juggernaut, he's getting buffed by cleaver buffs.

hes a tank and doesnt even build cleaver...

HammermancerDec 7, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pink Leg Warmers,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hwWzJIA4,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2017-12-07T14:12:37.010+0000)

no they do not need buffs

hes a tank and doesnt even build cleaver...

Sion is an AD based melee caster champ who scales off of HP and AD, while he is a tank, a black cleaver, in zero sense, is a bad item on him

Death by GlamourDec 7, 20171 votes

Im still waiting on you to show me where he builds black cleaver

Critmaster GarenDec 7, 20171 votes

the cleaver buff will barely affect garen.

the % shred on cleaver stacks multiplicative with his own armor shred on his spin. that means he effectively gets between 3% and 4% out of the increase. this buff is microscopic.

hes currently sitting at 50.7% winrate. this is not going to break him or even get him into the top 10 of the top laners. probably not even into the top 20.