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So how come tryndamere still exists in his current state?

Zerenza··5 votes·2,687 views

I don't care what anyone says how tryndamere is, the way he play's and the tools he has are absolutely infuriating and lack any and ALL skill expression.

I want tryndamere reworked, mainly because of how infuriating it is to play against someone with free crit and attack speed, but also because pressing a button to become invulnerable is the worst mechanic ever.

I don't give a shit if this champion is named after a founder and it's his favorite, this champion dominates solo que at all levels, the only reason he's been weak this season is because there hasn't been a rune for him until now. Please rework tryndamere to better flesh out his thematic and make his gameplay less of a bitch to deal with, it's so absolutely infuriating.

Oh wait, what's that? CC you say? So the fuck what if you CC him lol, that's the stupidest shit i've ever heard when it comes to him. HE"S INVULNERABLE FOR 5 FUCKING SECONDS! HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO 1v1 HIM IN LANE IF I STUN HIM FOR 1 SECOND AND HE STILL HAS 4 MORE TO NOT FUCKING DIE?! Like he legit doesn't even need the ultimate, the ultimate is literally just an enabler and it's completely unfucking fair.

26 Comments

Khristophoros4 votes

You should play some games as Tryndamere. At least try to get a deeper understanding of the champ before you post threads like this.

Auurun2 votes

Maybe his post is more of a rant, but he has a point. Tryndamere is beyond toxic in basically every part of his kit. He's already a tier 1 on VGU list alongside Morde, Nunu and others. Sadly there's so much shit to fix in this game that it will take years and that even assuming that they will nail every upcoming rework first try which I don't think is gonna happen.

Khristophoros1 votes

Trynd is fun to play and not that hard to deal with. I don't get how people get so mad about him compared to basically any other split pusher. Late game there are lots of other split pushers I am way more worried about.

Also, Trynd requires good macro decisions constantly throughout the game to actually be effective with unless you're playing in low elo.

Auurun2 votes

The fact that there are other champions that are also problematic doesn't mean Trynd is not a problem. Tryndamere is simply to reliable in the way he deals damage, nothing in his kit can be outplayed through sheer skill and in order to kill defeat him you have to counter him with CC or kite him and none of these things is available to everyone. Yes, he needs a skillshots and other always available types of counterplay, because in current league it's no longer fine to be beatable only through counters and macro.

And little fact. Taking away one aspect of the game (fighting aspect) does not automatically make the other (strategy aspect) better. He doesn't have anymore focus on macro than any other champion, he's simply kept weak because of his kit.

But whatever, you can defend this piece of shit how much you want to, he WILL get a rework at some point, because if champions like Swain, Irelia or Galio (that even before his rework was healthier for the game that Trynda) can be reworked because of their toxic kits then Tryndamere also deserves that.

Khristophoros1 votes

I don't even consider the other split pushers problematic. All I was saying is that there are stronger champs that do the same thing as him.

Ok so which champs can't kite or CC trynd? Name me one champ.

Auurun2 votes

Illaoi. Maybe there's not that many that don't have enough tools to deal with him but even kiting is not always option since he has his dash. Oh and there's also Garen that only has his silence, but Trynd doesn't give a fuck since most of his damage comes from his autoattacks.

AlienPrimate1 votes

Why would Garen even want to kite Tryn? Tryn should be so scared of Garen that he just goes to a different lane if Garen is there.

AlienPrimate1 votes

Having no way to outplay him also means that he has no way to outplay you. It goes both ways. Either he has the damage to take someone or he doesn't. You should know this before even going to try to fight him. If you are a champion who can't 1v1 him then just build armor so he can't dive you and wait for the jungler or someone who can 1v1 him. I've never had a problem with him because tanks destroy him both in lane and late game and I main tanks.

Auurun1 votes

{quoted}

Having no way to outplay him also means that he has no way to outplay you. It goes both ways. Either he has the damage to take someone or he doesn't. You should know this before even going to try to fight him. If you are a champion who can't 1v1 him then just build armor so he can't dive you and wait for the jungler or someone who can 1v1 him. I've never had a problem with him because tanks destroy him both in lane and late game and I main tanks.

And is that a good thing? Fuck no. It's a waste of a champion and simply cause for big amounts of hatred toward him. Maybe this thread didn't get much attention and no one is arguing here OPs point, but I remember seeing many posts (also some quite big discussions) where people showed how much they hate him.

Also regarding your second post why did I bring Garen it wasn't meant to go into this mach-up and argue who's gonna win it, but was simply an example of champion that don't have really to much ability to kite or CC Trynd. The fact is actually both are deserving of rework since both are statcheckers. When they fight the winner is decided by their stats and that's it. If Trynd gets a lead then suddenly Garen stands no chance since Tryndameres kit offers barely any counterplay. What decides a good champion is whether you can outplay them even if they have an advantage over you and if he has outplay potential.

Sasogwa2 votes

{quoted}

Maybe his post is more of a rant, but he has a point. Tryndamere is beyond toxic in basically every part of his kit. He's already a tier 1 on VGU list alongside Morde, Nunu and others. Sadly there's so much shit to fix in this game that it will take years and that even assuming that they will nail every upcoming rework first try which I don't think is gonna happen.

Trynd is desperately easy to kite, his counterplay patterns are crystal clear and he's way less toxic and metawarping than many champions

Auurun3 votes

He lacks counterplay a lot. He's just countered by some champions. By itself there's basically nothing that can be outplayed in his kit regardless of champion. Not every champion has CC necessary to deal with him and kiting is not available to all champions since melee characters have to go in to fight him.

Sasogwa1 votes

{quoted}

He lacks counterplay a lot. He's just countered by some champions. By itself there's basically nothing that can be outplayed in his kit regardless of champion. Not every champion has CC necessary to deal with him and kiting is not available to all champions since melee characters have to go in to fight him.

His kit is simple. There's no counterplay BECAUSE THERE'S NO PLAY POTENTIAL. You don't need counterplay, there's nothing even to do to react except not being stupid and knowing the range of his W, his E, approximately his damage output and what you can do with your kit to kite around him once he used his dash. Basically knowledge of how to trade and how much you and your opponent deal approximately, aka basic silver/gold toplaner knowledge. What are you gonna do as Trynda that's not desperately predictable? E flash is basically literally the only play Trynd can make. Every toplaner has tools to deal with him. Some matchups are more or less favourable, some are slightly in favour of Trynd, but Trynd simply doesn't have the tools to kill his opponent without his opponent making a dumb mistake/ risky trade.

Auurun2 votes

All of what you just said is even more reason to rework him. Simply having such champions that have little to no counterplay and can barely do anything is a waste of champion and will only generate unnecessary frustration. This is a game that is supposed to be fun, but having this type of frustrating champion is working against that. Tryndamere deserves to have both counterplay and outplay potential, because that's what a well designed champion is. If Tryndamere is fine then lots of other champions that got reworked were fine back then, but since they got reworked we know they weren't.

Sasogwa1 votes

{quoted}

All of what you just said is even more reason to rework him. Simply having such champions that have little to no counterplay and can barely do anything is a waste of champion and will only generate unnecessary frustration. This is a game that is supposed to be fun, but having this type of frustrating champion is working against that. Tryndamere deserves to have both counterplay and outplay potential, because that's what a well designed champion is. If Tryndamere is fine then lots of other champions that got reworked were fine back then, but since they got reworked we know they weren't.

But i'm having 5 billion times more fun facing a simple champion kit than facing a 'modern' champion with a billion dashes, % health, insane lane dominance and outscaling me. Tryndamere I can trade, Tryndamere is melee, if he fucks up he dies. That's the definition of a non-broken design. New garbage shit kits that comes out, looks shiny and all, looks skilled and all, but it's just overloaded bullshit with ridiculous innate safety and toxicity. When well played, it's just aids to play against. Sorry if you feel terrible when you die to a straightforward champion, I personally feel way worse when I die to an overloaded kit that autowins against me, and there's nothing I can do against it, not even farm, not anything. Yes I'm exagerating a little bit ofc for the sake of the argument, but to me at least, Trynd feels less oppressive than some other picks, both in lane and later in the game. And reworks haven't all been healthy. As someone that played since season 2, I prefered when the mobility was way lower and the strategical, logical thinking and positioning was something that mattered more than pure mechanic using on overloaded kits.

PS : Trynd can barely do anything proactive because new kits are unhealthy

Auurun2 votes

Some new kits are toxic yes like Fiora or Camille, but when playing against Ornn, Poppy or Aurelion Sol there's much more that you can do than against Jax, Annie or Nasus. You may feel otherwise, but it's outright fact since you can dodge their stuff. And don't get me wrong I don't like the fact that these new kits are overloaded or overrewarded for landing one skill, but you know the reason why it's like this? Because these older champions exist. Reliability is a strenght that will always be prefered over everything else, pro players proved this times and times again. That's why new champions with more counterplay also get way more tools, to compete with reliability. So basically we need to even out counterplay across all champions so that later we can decrease power-level and come back to slower paced less ridiculous gameplay that still have fighting aspect too. You may look through rose-tinted glasses and deny that, but that's the truth. I personally came to this game only because it was changing as I consider Lol back in the days a pile of garbagr with outdated design philosophy, without any strategy RTS games had, that got lucky and happen to be one of first of its type.

Khristophoros1 votes

Predict when he will use mocking shout. Turn towards him.

Kite him so he's forced to use spinning slash to engage. As with every champ with a gap closer, their ideal scenario is being able to flank you or engage without their gap closer so they can use it to chase you down.

Auurun2 votes

It's far from from enough and that whole "Predict when he will use mocking shout"... Well it's like with Yasuos Q, everyone say that you can outplay this, but it's fast enough that most of the time ot's Yasuo who fucked up by himself and not landed this ability. Point is there should always be place for reaction, not just hoping that you guess right and "outplay" it by luck. But I'll give you that his W is probably the healthiest ability he has.

Also not always he has to use later his spin to chase you down as not every champion is mobile enough to create such gap so he must use it again after he used it as a engage.

Khristophoros1 votes

It's all about positioning. If you position badly he will be able to engage without his spinning slash which means he can save it for chasing. That's what he wants. It's the same thing for every other melee with a gap closer.

Auurun2 votes

{quoted}

It's all about positioning. If you position badly he will be able to engage without his spinning slash which means he can save it for chasing. That's what he wants. It's the same thing for every other melee with a gap closer.

And that doesn't make it better. Positioning should not be all that decides a fight. If that was the case Irelia would not get a rework, but she got it anyway. She also has a gap closer and benefits from getting in range without using it up, but even if she manages to get to you because of your poor positioning you still have many options to negate her damage like dodging her E, W and ult. That's what a healthy champion is. And as I said sometimes Trynd is completely fine with using his E to engage, because sometimes he can still kill you then with just autoatacks before you will be able to get away.

Khristophoros1 votes

You can always avoid his slow just like you can dodge Irelia's E

Wow sometimes the melee dps champ can kill you with autos because he's more fed than you. Welcome to every bruiser and melee carry ever.

Auurun2 votes

Some champions like new Irelia still have to use their unreliable abilities well in order to kill, trynd always kills with only autoattackd and that's a problem. And as I said the fact that you can only avoid his slow is not enough, not to mention I still think it's more that Trynd fucked up and not you avoided it.

Khristophoros1 votes

You are assuming he can win a statcheck on his target and they have no CC or mobility. In most cases that's just not true. It's actually pretty hard to play him against players who don't suck.

Auurun2 votes

Do be perfectly clear I'm not arguing that his trong and wins all the time when it's actually the exact opposite. What I'm saying is that whenever he kills somebody it's always via statchevk. And situations like this happen much more often than you thing. You say that he only is only hard to play as against people that don't suck... So pretty much pubstomper, which is otself a poor design. Once again, I'm not saying that he autowins or something. I'm saying that playing against him is a awful experience even when you win against him. Whenever I see a Tryndamere in enemy team I know this game is gonna be drained from any fun.

Khristophoros1 votes

I don't see how you can claim it's "always via stack check" when he kills somebody. He has to deal with CC and kiting so he has to use his W, E, and R as efficiently as possible.

Auurun1 votes

{quoted}

I don't see how you can claim it's "always via stack check" when he kills somebody. He has to deal with CC and kiting so he has to use his W, E, and R as efficiently as possible.

Using his W, E and R is only on his part. Dealing with CC and kiting is something every champion has to deal. A champion is not a statchecker only when he offers multiple tools for his opponent to outplay him without completely relying on their own kit. Yes, he has to get freaking skillshots, conditional steroids which enemy can disable though combat and so on. Currently the only thing even remotely close to that is his W which is almost instant and therefore not even worth counting. Champions counterplay is just a more fancy word for interactivity and Trynd may have some base amount of it that comes as a result to simply being anything close to being somehow functional champion eg. having ability to walk at all and use some basic abilities, but it's far from enough in current League and enough of a proof to that are Irelia and Shen reworks for example.

fudgeboss031 votes

you do know that he has one of the longest and lowest cooldown dashes in the game and an 80% slow right?

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