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Damage has increased... and keeps increasing.

Kovah··168 votes·6,665 views

The damage dealt by champions in general is just too high imo... I'm not saying "oh buff tanks". I'm saying if I build item 3742 item 3143 item 3075 as a shyvana, I shouldnt, under any situation really, die in less than 1 or 2 seconds...

I think just, lowing damage across the board would be a good idea. Just like, 20% or so. The reason I say this is that it offers more counterplay in almost any situation. The longer a fight lasts, the more likely the better player will be to win the fight. I don't care how good you are, getting 100 to 0ed by an assassin as an adc is kind of unfun. Or as a tank, building 5 or 6 straight up tank items and getting melted in seconds. IDK if im the only one who has noticed the damage creep as of late.

Edit: Just to clarify, I mean I shouldn't die to a team composed of AD champs that quickly with the build. And thank you to all the people completely ignoring the post and choosing to inspect and criticize my build against a fictional team. It's JUST an example. People who get too caught up analyzing an example instead of the point made just take away from the conversation, not add to it.

173 Comments

Sire Hippington31 votes

i agree, though there would be need for adjustments. Most burst centered champions would need changes, as they rely on beeing able to 100-0 opponents. If they can't do that, they do no much at all. But on the long run, overall reduced damage and kits beeing balanced around NOT haveing 100-0 patterns would certainly be better for the game.

It Hertz When IP17 votes

That's where I think Riot made a mistake. NO champion should be able to 100-0 another champion. Assassins should be striking at wounded targets: 50-0 them. IMO.

Game girl 17 votes

The problem is that late every champ is either too tanky to assasinate or has lifesteal so is never 50% health.

NakedGranny9 votes

They removed spellvamp because for some reason a mage shouldn't be able to blow all his cooldowns and half his mana to recover maybe 200hp once every ten seconds...

But they left in all overpowered AD lifesteal items so that hypercarries and assassins can recover 500hp twice per second with no resource expenditure or cooldown limitations ... just by auto-attacking.

All this even in the context of a contemporary and infamous environment wherein mages are notoriously underperforming and literally worse than free kills for enemy AD assassins (like Zed, Yi and Yasuo). Let's just sit back and think about what that means for a moment.

Aatrox Mid 1v52 votes

I agree with lifestyle, I feel that it's retarded that an assassin can't kill a new adc like vayne or yasuo because of how much they heal from aa's

Tyaldan4 votes

I dont think it wrong to be able to 100 - 0 a squishy champ who built NO defensive items. If 100 - 0 is a serious threat, you should seriously have to build a defensive item. If however you can build only defensive items and still get 100-0d in less than 10 seconds (in my opinion, this is what tanks should be capabale of) then there is a serious problem. Champs keep getting buffs to match other champs power levels, but i honestly think it should go the other way for a bit. Adc underperforming compared to other powerful adcs? bring the other adcs back a bit, not the underperformer up (unless its actually a kit related problem). Assassins assassinating everyone, including tanks? Bring their power down a bit. Let them get adcs, and mages with relative ease, but not kill tanks. Bruisers able to 1v3 reliably when not fed? Bring them down. I still dont know the difference between a warrior and a bruiser, because everyone builds warriors like bruisers because they die too easily.

NakedGranny5 votes

Due to costs of items, Mages can't afford to buy one of the two defensive items available to them because even going for pure glass-cannon builds still leaves them useless at end game: AP champions all have truly shitty scaling relative to HP and MR that everyone else is getting just as baseline or part of their default build-paths.

Mages are screwed in absolutely every way right now.

There is no reason to bring a mage when you could bring a Zed, Yi, Khazix, Rengar or Yasuo instead.

Mecha MaIphite1 votes

I wouldn't say that, because that would mean everyone bursty would get their damage decreased. Imagine how crappy it would feel to throw a Veigar ult at a squishy and only have it do 25% of their HP.

WoonStruck3 votes

Why should someone do over 25% of someone's health with a single ability, especially a targeted one?

IMO, longer fights would benefit Veigar more due to his new passive. More opportunities to Q and W, making him have an advantage over other champions with this change.

WoonStruck1 votes

They don't rely on 100-0.

There have been plenty of instances where assassins have been important champions due to the AoE damage they deal with their initiation, or ability to put an opponent out of position. I'm not just talking about LoL.

IMO, assassins are only healthy when they rely on a little follow up, or are required to follow up, to be successful.

Near-automatically killing someone because they're in range can't be considered healthy. In any game. People just accept it in League because its been a thing for so long. The truth is that they still shouldn't exist as 100-0 champions because that isn't strategy. Riot has nerfed so many champions because their only 'counterplay' is 'staying out of range'. Yet, assassins continue to exist.

At least champions like Xin, Irelia, Jax, Fiora, etc aren't instantaneous burst. Fighters are much closer to what assassins should be.

Sire Hippington3 votes

They don't shouldn't rely on 100-0.

Fixed that for you.

I absulutly agree that 'Near-automatically killing someone because they're in range' is not healthy. However, right now many assasins(and some burst mages) don't offer enough besides that, if they can't burst a squishy dowsn, there is little reason to pick them over other champions. This is why many champs would need adjustments to their kits to stay relevant without 100-0 pattern.

Woodakoodashooda21 votes

Yeah, no, tanks are still in a good place. Especially when they don't even need to be fed to turn a game around completely. If you're dying in under 2 seconds against an enemy AD then you've done one of the following.

  1. Engaged an enemy without an ally. Solution: Stay with an ally.

  2. Overextended without vision. Solution: Purchase pinks and place one where needed.

  3. Overstayed your welcome after a successful fight. Solution: Return to base after a successful fight that results in the team securing an objective.

  4. You were ganked successfully by multiple enemies. Solution: None, it happens. No matter how cautious you are.

  5. Engaged a fight without your team being ready. Solution: Ping when you are about to engage and then go in, but make sure your allies have their uits.

  6. Died while warding. Solution: Farsight is a good item for safe warding if you are unable to place regular wards down.

Serika Zero6 votes

You were ganked successfully by multiple enemies. Solution: None, it happens. No matter how cautious you are.

Correction: read the map better next time, if you don't have vision of 3 or more enemies, you are very likely to get ganked by the enemy team.

Sire Hippington3 votes

Prettymuch all of this applies to the earlygame. The bigger issue are lategame teamfights. I often enough have seen a 6 item fulltank shyvana die within ~2 sec from full health after ulting into the backline. If you look at winrates, you'll notice that all tanky dps champs have a rather low winrate atm, and those that look stilld decent have a massive earlygame winrate and drop hard as the game progresses, since 'tanking' doesn't work later on. Either you have nice hard cc on your engage so your team can follow up befor your opponents have the opportunity to focus you down, or you are usless outside of splitpushing, and the main reason for that is the overabundance of damage in the game.

Also, the major issue with the high damage right now is that makeing any mistake ends with an instantanious death, which results in a low-(or even no-) risk meta where playing as save as possible is the key. This makes for rather stale and boring games, as well as the tank meta top that we see in proplay. Tanks mostly get played top because they can funcion on lowish gold and are hard to gank, especially ekko. IF a fulltank 'overextends' he often can buy enough time for the rest of the team to make a cross map play. As a squishy, your just boned.

A big issue here also is vision. It's so hard to set up proper vision with no stealthwards to buy, nerfed trinkets and nerfed wardstone. As a result, you nearly always have to expect a gank as you never really have enough vision, which means you either play champs that have rediculous escapes(hello ekko, again) or you sit underneath your tower and bite your time, especially vs junglers like kindret or nida that can easily solo kill you if your dare to get close to the middle of your lane.

Al this contributs alot to the current snowbally feeling of the game.

NakedGranny1 votes

If you look at winrates, you'll notice that all tanky dps champs have a rather low winrate atm, and those that look stilld decent have a massive earlygame winrate and drop hard as the game progresses, since 'tanking' doesn't work later on.

That's not because tank champs/gear are underpowered, it's that assassins are too powerful.

AD assassins get all the benefits of their items stacked into their abilities while also stacking it into their auto-attacks which they get no cooldowns or resource gates on. Marksmen also benefit from this specific situation, but they're held back by a general lack of free "escape" and defense abilities (for example, Zed can just nope out of a fight at any time and Yas has Windwall and basically infinite dashes with a huge area knockup and free shields on demand). So while all AD champs have ultra-powerful steroids running right now, the assassins are far out ahead due to their ability ratios and their plethora of escape and defensive abilities.

Assassins, as a category, should have their ability damage halved or preferably divided by three.

The alternative is to remove all damage from their auto-attacks and decrease the AoE of their abilities to melee only in order to reign in their free farming. Assassins should not be able to farm better than any mage all while most of them don't even have mana constraints to deal with.

Sire Hippington3 votes

Assasins aren't the issue at all for tanky dps, they are actually the best calss to face with the likes of shy.(shy for example has a +50% winrate vs yasuo, but only ~30% vs mao top) And also, there are less assasins with a solid escape then there are marksmen. Assasins are frustraiting to face, especially as squishy, but powerwise they are balanced at best.

The issue is more that all the tanks have gotten %hp damage, gragas got %hp damage in his small rework, mao recived it, trundle recived it, shen now has, so even the low damage class does noticable damage vs tanky champs. Aditionally, marksmen are demigods come to lategame more than ever, the amount of ranged damage comeing at you as a melee is just insane in the later stages of the game, paired with shitloads of safety from theri own kot+peeling so the only answer is beeing so slipery that you can get into combat range befor takeing any damge and/or instantly deleteing the threat.

Evìloreo12 votes

this season is really not fun, my favorite junglers - nunu, shyvana, maokai, mundo, phoe udyr are next to worthless this season.

As a tank jungler player i dont last more than 3-4 secs at best fully geared, which in the past i can survive around 10 secs.

In the past if i died i felt like i screwed up personally, a series of mistakes that got me caught in varying degrees of being stupid, today, im 2-3 steps in the wrong position and im done for.

i used to get frustrated with bad players, these days im frustrating with the gameplay, not a good sign

now im considering other games to play with my gaming time.

ZT Xperimentor11 votes

Yeah I've been saying tanks have been weak for the last couple years because of damage creep. No assassins building warmogs doesn't count as tanks; I'm talking champions designed to be tanks, nautilus & braum for example. I'm tired of tanks getting blown up in a couple seconds before they can even use a rotation of abilities; burst shouldn't win everything!

MLDzXnRRR4 votes

[{quoted}](name=ZT Xperimentor,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hpBfJmdT,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-05-31T03:24:07.073+0000)

Yeah I've been saying tanks have been weak for the last couple years because of damage creep. No assassins building warmogs doesn't count as tanks; I'm talking champions designed to be tanks, nautilus & braum for example. I'm tired of tanks getting blown up in a couple seconds before they can even use a rotation of abilities; burst shouldn't win everything!

Nautilus weak? He got nerfed, because he builds full tank and assasinates midlaners, ADCs and bruisers... And he still can do it.

Angry Monster5 votes

never happened. They can win extend up close trades (if ahead) which is what they are supposed to do. The whole point is to have some threat. I have never seen naut take down someone in under 5 seconds, unless they were afk or below 1/4 health

Leetri5 votes

I've seen pre-nerf Nautilus assassinate people, he dealt insane damage for being full tank.

GigglesO9 votes

It was that way a long time ago... and then everyone asked for shorter games...

Ace Access 53 votes

everyone ? since when did I ask for shorter games ? -_-

GigglesO21 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ace Access ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hpBfJmdT,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-05-31T03:52:01.113+0000)

everyone ? since when did I ask for shorter games ? -_-

Well according to riot "The majority" I didn't want shorter ones either, that is what aram and dominion were for.

LankPants48 votes

Riot has no idea what the majority want. All Riot knows is what it wants and it shovels that shit to its playerbase all day long.

Miror B3 votes

{quoted}

Riot has no idea what the majority want. All Riot knows is what it wants and it shovels that shit to its playerbase all day long.

Like not bringing back solo queue and keeping characters with high-rp cost skins near the top of the meta? Ezreal Zed Fizz

CarbRundum3 votes

All Riot knows is what Tencent wants. And that's money.

franticFurball41 votes

How to make a statistic:

"Dynamic queue is the most played gamemode! People must love Dynamic queue!"

"Wait, isn't dynamic queue the ONLY gamemode?"

"Silence, peasant!"

TyroneWatermelon10 votes

Hey riot stop with champion releases and fix the balance in the game and update old champions "Shhh boi we need more skins"

LeafyGreen5 votes

There ARE totally different departments that change different parts of the games. The skin team has nothing to do with balance.

Lithium Rosa7 votes

I don't have problem with assassins 100-0 adc, that's their job. I have problem with adc melting Tanks who has 4+ tanky items within 3 seconds, meanwhile people won't stop yelling "tank op".

Bobloser35555 votes

I once built full tank Garen with only tank runes, masteries and everything, I almost died as fast as if I would build damage and I was useless beyond measure.

DeathBurst1 votes

Then you don't play Garen properly...

Bobloser35554 votes

Not saying that I know much about Garen but I still have 55% win rate at the moment (40 ranked games)

TWITCHTV ERONATE6 votes

Not to mention how azir still 2 shots any squishy and how the second rengar jumps on you you're dead

Darth StepVader6 votes

People read about tanks and they think of Ekko Fizz Akali Yasuo Fiora built with tank/bruiser/juggernaut items. NO, they are NOT tanks. They are champions with immense utility+base stats+their kits allow them to fully use the mentioned items to both deal immense amounts of damage AND tank quite a bit of punishment.

Tanks and extremely immobile champs have pretty shitty scaling into late game right now.Maokai Darius DrMundo Malphite Nasus Olaf Shen Shyvana Sion These guys can easily be kited around and if the game lasts more than 30 mins, they get bursted down easily by adc's, especially if both bot and jungle occupy that class. No tank can withstand the damage of Lucian Kindred Ezreal MissFortune ,especially if they use item 3071 item 3036 , nor can they out-peel or surpass in teamfight effectiveness champs like the ones mentioned in the start of the post. Pure tanks and immobile fighters are seriously meh right now. The only place tanks like Maokai Nautilus Malphite can be used right now, is in the pro-scene. In regular games, there's no guarantee that you'll even be able to survive the laning phase, nor that your carries will deal sufficient enough damage in teamfights, so as the use of tanks to be worth.

ZT Xperimentor3 votes

My thoughts exactly

Horse Grenades5 votes

Mobility creep is just as bad now

bill844 votes

Well technically you only have armor in that build, so if I were to be Veigar with something like 1.5k ap then you should probably die in 1-2 seconds.

morris16 votes

The problem is when the ADC has LW + some lifesteal and completely shreds through your 4 armor item build without any effort.

MÖRTIMER4 votes

I'm sure your are only talking about AD killing you fast. Not AP, cause AP would blow you up still, even with the health you have. But I would like to see some type of proof. Cause you're right. With that much armor you should almost be unkillable by any ad champ.

rtbf221479704 votes

It's not that damage is too high; it's that penetration is to prevalent. With the addition of the new last whisper items, black cleaver, yomuus, and multiple masteries flat armor is surprisingly ineffective. Health stacking is equally affected due to bork and such.

Prozzak3 votes

I have mentioned this many times to my friends. When I first started league (season 1 very minimal, so lets say season 2 when I got to 30) the big difference between Dota and league (at that time it was just Dota as far as I remember not Dota 2 but maybe that was out) was that in Dota every champ had an excess amount of damage and it led to quicker fights. League was like hitting with a pool noodle compared to that. Nowadays? Not sure what Dota is like now but League is what Dota used to be. Everyone (or almost everyone) can do a ton of damage and league is no longer league because of that.

AwesomeChad2 votes

so we have a consensus: Nerf penetration. Sounds good.

Zaryelle2 votes

It's even worse and more noticeable once someone gets a little fed and they can kill anyone on the other team in 1-2 seconds, happens every game. I think lowering damage overall would prevent some of the ridiculousness of snowballing and give people a better chance of comebacks.

Emerald Fang2 votes

The only way they could fix this without recreating League is to put a damage reduction on AFTER the damage is calculated. This would slow down the game IMO. I don't know much about coding but it doesn't really make a ton of sense.

BandleGunner2 votes

Once upon a time if you claimed to get a 1k damage critical strike you'd be called a liar. Now thats called Mid-Game.

Toplane Fencer1 votes

Look, tanks are very strong right now - it's a TANK meta. So, no, don't lower dmg and, as a side effect, buff tanks even more.

GayFluffyUnicorn14 votes

Tank meta? Where? When? If at all, you have one toplaner who builds tank: yasuo, ekko, fizz this kind of shit. But those aren't tanks. Nauti, Shen, Sion--> tanks.

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