i hope riot doesnt completly rework shyvana and just gives her small changes/buffs

XJ99999999999999··10 votes·8,277 views

Diana is a good example. Instead of completing changing them, they swapped 2 skills around and gave her and ult. This is still keeping the champion the same. This is great for the players who play Diana, and the players who have always known Diana. I think getting rid of a champions kit (like aatrox) really gets rid of some spirit and character in League with it. Old aatrox could have been perfectly viable if things such as the following were done :

  1. Make his Q knock up a bit more generous with the center or make it always knock up, increasing based on the center point
  2. Make his ult give him a shield for each target hit, encouraging him to dive into battle, fitting the theme and lore of Aatrox, an ancient warrior who never hesitated and lead the charge. This was apart of his kit during testing or I think in PBE at some point but was pulled due to being "too powerful".
  3. Make his W keep track of which hit it's on after your passive procs. This was something done I believe on him during the late stages of his old kit, but it was done way too late despite being suggested way back in 2013.
  4. Make his Q unstopable. I don't get why they were so against making his flight unstoppable. That just feels bad for aatrox and there are a ton of ministuns ccs to stop this compared to back in the day. They made his 2nd part of his Q (the dive) unstoppable, but that barely mattered. It was mostly the 1st part.
  5. BONUS : I just wish he was tuned up kinda like Yi has been. I can easily argue Yi is a toxic champion by design, with his ult making attack speed slows not work especially. It used to, but apparently that was "unfun" for the Yi player, despite it being a counter, so where is the counter play?). Yi has always been a champion to keep an eye on due to gold funnel strats and cheesy comps like Taric + Yi. If anything, this champions is a huge problem due to his kit, but isn't changed drasticly. Any champion with any form of untargatablility always needs to be constantly watched, as being untargetable in a meta where you blow up in 1-3 seconds is extremely powerful. Yi players get to enjoy the same champion that plays exactly the same as Yi on release. But other champions do not share the same fate and get completly changed.

I disgress, as this is about shyvana, but I loved aatrox just as much. I am a fan of buffing her attack speed/fighting fantasty over this spam E cheese strategy. The biggest thing they could do for her kit is just make it so she gets fury while dead, instead of gaining 0. This is prob 1 of the biggest things that keeps her down honestly. Because if you die, it's is way more punishing compared to dying with other champs. With other champs, at least you have your 3 abilities that work well without your ult and your ult ticks down. Shyvana? She needs her ult to teamfight mid-late game. She is pretty laughable without it. She needs that AoE Q and AoE E. Too many people don't realize that and flame the shyvana for jungling to get her ult back before a big push, a consueqence of playing with such a unique champion.

So yeah. Really I just hope riot doesn't invest so much into these reworks. I really don't think they are needed, and just small touch ups is all champions need.

20 Comments

Pierce The Veal4 votes

Unfortunately for you, you’re wrong about the Diana rework. They cut her ap ratio on her passive in half. They removed its mana regen (that scales with ap, giving her unique gameplay). They cut her W’s ap ratio and made its cooldown worse, her new E makes her stronger between levels MAYBE 2-5, but since old diana used to take two points in W first it’s really hard to say she’s stronger then than before.

Her new ult is the real conundrum. It seems SUPER strong, however in practice it’s pretty easy to avoid if you don’t ignore its windup.

It’s really impressive that in such a simple rework Riot has managed to 1) remove her unique playstyles 2) massively nerf her damage 3) make her cc unaccessible outside of a 100 some second cooldown ult.

Diana used to be unique because her tankiness scaled with AP and resists, so she needed to commit to high dollar items asap to come online. Now she fundamentally has lackluster damage and less survivability than before in exchange for a gimmick ult.

Riot keeps doing this. They keep reworking champs in favor of a gimmick. Fiora’s vitals, Akali’s stealth+passive auto, etc. etc.. Often it looks like the champion is still intact but in practice the champion is not. And then if the gimmick is weak enough they buff it to the point where it’s precariously “balanced” (~50% WR).

Shirvallah3 votes

Just gonna say this now before I say what I need to say: I love both ways to play Shyvana. I’ve even played her with tons and tons games more as attack speed based rather than a caster.

Gonna get downvoted for this, but I’m 110% okay with them completely changing her. I’m even more okay with her becoming more of a caster than attack speed reliant. The reason for it is I want her to be more reliable and truly fulfill her fantasy as this fearsome dragon to be reckoned with — falls off not nearly as hard if behind and complete counterplay (non-oneshots or non-steamrolling, unless the enemy has fed you enough, of course) when ahead, all the while having a kit that makes sense (why would a dragon only spit a single fireball at a low rate and attack really fast in your face with their wings when they could be using those wings to fly? Doesn’t make any sense).

WoonStruck2 votes

His Q was labeled as supposedly unstoppable.

It just didn't function that way because they never acknowledged that part 1 and 2 were distinct in that aspect, and they ignored that until his rework.

14daysuspensionk2 votes

I want them to reserve her current kit and thematic, while improving it a bit. Her current kit is a bit outdated and feels a tiny bit underhwhelming. Her W is pretty weak when it comes to being an AoE. Her E as well, (excluding dragon form e), it could use a change, maybe make it easier to land. It's pretty useless right now. Her dragonform shouldn't have the same basic abilities, it should look way more intimidating which means giving her a full VGU via a more smooth model and a dragon form that doesn't look like a malnourished dragon. Make it look more intimidating. I also want them to give her some sort of purpose to the wings other than just being there. Have some sort of long cooldown dragon form ability that lets her fly into battle and land like Galio ult. That would make dragon form more enjoyable, it especially feels like you stay in it for a way too short time. These are just my thoughts, I don't want her to have anything ridiculous like a 3 hit passive or a Pyke W.

reddozer12 votes

If they could make her a massive on-hit auto-based dragon instead of a flimsy burst mage, that would be great.

SoapBark1 votes

I agree with this poster. It seems Shyvana has become a burst mage instead of an auto attack based champion.

In addition to the proposed fury change, I recommend Shyvana's dragon form E to be reverted from a fireball to be conic with slowing ability to increase her dueling/chasing potential. A damage buff to jungle camps could also be considered.

Furthermore, to promote an attack-based champion, change her Q second hit bonus damage back to 80 / 85 / 90 / 95 / 100% AD.

XJ999999999999993 votes

{quoted}

I agree with this poster. It seems Shyvana has become a burst mage instead of an auto attack based champion.

In addition to the proposed fury change, I recommend Shyvana's dragon form E to be reverted from a fireball to be conic with slowing ability to increase her dueling/chasing potential. A damage buff to jungle camps could also be considered.

Furthermore, to promote an attack-based champion, change her Q second hit bonus damage back to 80 / 85 / 90 / 95 / 100% AD.

she can be played as both. both have different playstyles. The sets of buffs in the PBE buff Attack speed shyvana (bloodrazor/blade king or wits/trinity by a ton. the attack speed style is a lot more skilled than the gimicky AP.

Shyvana has plenty of sticking tools with chilling smite. I also highly pref blade king over frozen mallet as it scales and does way more damage (attack speed is a really good stat on her).

Idk, the Q nerf seemed a bit weird and sudden. It was just because she was played in LCS (lol). Should probably get it back. She doesn't build much AD anyway.

Her clear is super fast, epsecially with the PBE change. I also am not a fan of giving her a slow just because I believe in weaknesses in champs instead of champions getting reworked to not have them anymore. Items should counteract it.

WoonStruck3 votes

Yeah imagine if every champ with CC was balanced like Skarner now.

Not allowed to deal damage without building significant damage.

I feel like Skarner was the last champion that became overpowered that they actually seriously tried to give trade-offs.

G0blinSlay3r1 votes

i hope they disrespect all shyvanna mains. and they come to slay riot.

RadeticDraws1 votes

Just remove E ap scaling. Boom. Great rework

Düff McWhalen1 votes

{quoted}

Just remove E ap scaling. Boom. Great rework

That would nerf her into complete useless and she would never be played again.

RadeticDraws1 votes

I have no problems with that If you want her to be reworked but with just minor changes First what right you have to ask for that if all other champions were gutted and all the mains keep crying for reverts Second, it would not fix the issues and would just create an even more unbalanced champion when built ap

Thefrostyviking1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Düff McWhalen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=heo5PPo8,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2019-12-20T12:39:11.280+0000)

That would nerf her into complete useless and she would never be played again.

Or open room for the rest of the kit to be buffed so her AD build works even when the enemy team arent hella stupid.

Düff McWhalen2 votes

{quoted}

Or open room for the rest of the kit to be buffed so her AD build works even when the enemy team arent hella stupid.

Her AD build is already very good and has multiple options.

Basic AD build core item 1416 item 3068 item 3111item 3748

klessik core item 1416 item 3022 item 3078 item 3111

She's awesome with item 3153 or item 3071.

She can build things like item 3143 item 3742 item 3053 and it's not wasted

She has multiple viable keystones for AD which her best is Press the Attack since she stacks it faster than most of the roster can, same with Conqueror. She can even wield Grasp of the Undying and not be severely hindered.

Her kit is one of the better balanced ones in the game. She doesn't need buffs or nerfs she needs tiny changes and then to be left the fuck alone.

Thefrostyviking1 votes

[deleted]

Düff McWhalen1 votes

{quoted}

You have gotta be shitting me, you have absolutely no manner of idea of what kind of shit you are sprouting, she has 1,7% pickrate in plati+, her winrate is 49.6% which while alright, is still hella low for a champ with so little play!

AD build is alright? AD build are not even used enough to be seen on sites like u.gg or op.gg!

PtA is her best AD keystone? It has 11% pickrate! ITS LITERALLY HER WORST ONE THAT SEES ANY USE, and no grasp is not legit that´s trolling....it has 45% winrate and 1% pickrate.

Conqueror is her best AD keystone, but it has a 20% pickrate vs Dark harvest at 65%, which is her AP keystone if you did not know.

AD build viable? Her winrate with it literally tanks more and more as you rise through elo, it stops being viable in plati and becomes straight trolling in Diamond unless you are some hardcore onetrick who knows how to snowball with her every game.....actually so does her AP build.

And no, black cleaver is not legit on Shyv, the item components are terrible and half her damage is magic damage so the amount of wasted stats&gold is far too terrible to even consider it.

Triforce? Yeah its good, too bad she´s a jungler though so unless you´re snowballing it´s waaay too god damn expensive to even think about it if you dont want to get stomped while you are building it so it´s not a generally good build.

And when she´s not snowballing and just goes even she falls of hard, same as say Aatrox or Renekton, but unlike them she does not have a strong early game to leverage.

So no, she is not truly viable or legit against competent opponents, she is trash.

Now as for you.

You have done 0 research at all, your "info" is outdated by several seasons and you still have the gall to spread such ridiculous bullshit under the guise of "advise"?

I ask that you never, never ever again partake in a discussion where you are so utterly horrendously ignorant and uninformed to the point where you outright lie and bullshit but do not even know about it simply due to how ignorant you are.

It tends to piss the people who play the damn champion off you see, since they are involved and have been doing the research.

https://euw.op.gg/summoner/userName=THEFROSTYVIKING

You barely ever play her. I do.

Thefrostyviking1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Düff McWhalen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=heo5PPo8,comment-id=000500000001000000000000,timestamp=2019-12-20T23:50:39.759+0000)

https://euw.op.gg/summoner/userName=THEFROSTYVIKING

You barely ever play her. I do.

She is my main jungler and the first out of only three that i play there, now you will however not see me play her much as i´ve been busy trying to learn how Irelia works, which has been taking quite a bit of time.

However if you do play her then how in the world are you so impossibly uninformed as to her present status? Not knowing that conqueror is her main AD keystone is almost beyond ridiculous at this point.

The only time PTA is better than conqueror is when you are looking to almost or entirely 1comboKO someone and that is it, which is the case for every single champion who can use either one well enough, conqueror meanwhile is better for the following :

  1. More damage in any fight that goes beyond being short.
  2. It heals a lot once activated.
  3. It does not hard falloff against tanks and other fighters in the same way that PTA gets it´s entire base damage negated and then almost does nothing.
  4. The above factors combined ensures that it´s better for prolonged duels, skirmishes and in team fights, there are only 2 real scenario´s when PtA is better and they are all centered around early game and/or being ahead.
XJ999999999999991 votes

[{quoted}](name=Düff McWhalen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=heo5PPo8,comment-id=0005000000010000,timestamp=2019-12-20T22:30:45.829+0000)

Her AD build is already very good and has multiple options.

Basic AD build core item 1416 item 3068 item 3111item 3748

klessik core item 1416 item 3022 item 3078 item 3111

She's awesome with item 3153 or item 3071.

She can build things like item 3143 item 3742 item 3053 and it's not wasted

She has multiple viable keystones for AD which her best is Press the Attack since she stacks it faster than most of the roster can, same with Conqueror. She can even wield Grasp of the Undying and not be severely hindered.

Her kit is one of the better balanced ones in the game. She doesn't need buffs or nerfs she needs tiny changes and then to be left the fuck alone.

my core build is bloodrazor - blade - trinity. Steraks/visage next and last item depends. ninja tabi 95% of the time, as the jungler, you are expected to be able to tank dragon/baron/elder dragon, as well as tank a ton of AD damage from turret shots and champions. just the default jungler boot in general for me.

The thing with frozen mallet is that it just lacks damage. Shyvanas issue isn't sticking to her target, it's getting to her target. Once she has autos in and extends her W she has no problem sticking. If she touches you, you are usually instantly dead if you build how I do.

Sustain is also an issue so blade king helps her stay healthy inbetween skirmishes and during them.

Troll Slaiyer1 votes

she will have a tail

Demented Lemur1 votes

The whole reason they fully reworkes aatrox into a different champion is because all old aatrox did was poke you from a distance until you were low enough and then engaged and then autod you to death. There was nothing fun interesting about this it was one of the most boring kits they could have made and nothing smaller than a full rework would have made him interesting.

Shyvanna the same idea except she has even less gameplay outside of Auto attacking. They are gonna have to change her significantly in order to make her more interesting to play.

Auto attack champions with very little counter play or outplay potential to their abilities is typically something riot wishes to avoid. Because these make champions stat check champions instead of interesting.

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