Looks like Riot is addressing damage creep via PBE changes

FalconPawwwwnch·Feb 8, 2017·163 votes·20,141 views

http://www.surrenderat20.net/2017/02/28-pbe-update.html

Pretty much every source of damage amp got nerfed on PBE

259 Comments

Sahn UzalFeb 8, 201775 votes

I AM SO FUCKING HAPPY RIGHT NOW.

Malicious MetalFeb 8, 201755 votes

Finally!

Maybe now you got an actual reason to pick a Juggernaut over a tank!

WoonStruckFeb 8, 201728 votes

MAYBE VLAD WILL FUNCTION

SkelenthFeb 8, 201771 votes

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/430/877/271.gif

Over InnsmouthFeb 8, 201745 votes

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/rammf.gif

UnboundCreatorFeb 9, 20171 votes

{quoted}

MAYBE VLAD WILL FUNCTION

What do you mean? this didnt effect vlad that much except for the fact that vlad doesnt really use the ferocity tree

WheatloafFeb 9, 20174 votes

The less damage opponents deal, the stronger healing is, because they'll have a harder time cutting through it.

WoonStruckFeb 9, 20175 votes

And everything in the game competes for his damage, which is ~80% of his entire purpose, and his tankiness and buildpath is pretty moot with the current meta.

As far as damage goes, a lot of his comes from smaller bursts every 3 seconds. If damage is too high, burst champions burst way more, and dps champs do about the same, but without the windows Vlad has to deal with.

Big LincolnFeb 8, 201743 votes

it's beautiful

I never thought we'd see it happen all at once

that cleaver buff is suspect as hell though; I'm going to assume they're lowering its AD or something and we haven't seen it yet

WoonStruckFeb 8, 20176 votes

I wouldn't blame them for lowing it to 25% reduction over 5 hits.

I'd say the item's a bit overloaded like Morello's, but then again all of the other juggernaut itemization has been nerfed pretty hard in total.

Big LincolnFeb 8, 201711 votes

tbh I wish we had OG item 3053 back, with some add-on like a 50% shield for range or something

it feels so lackluster now, especially as a core item

edit: it's an AD nerf, down to 40 AD and it's got a new build path.

http://www.surrenderat20.net/2017/02/28-pbe-update.html

WoonStruckFeb 8, 20175 votes

Same.

I miss being able to run item 3078 item 3053 item 3047 with full scaling armor/MR runes on Skarner when you start to snowball.

900 damage TF procs, 270 damage Qs, and 800 HP Ws was fun, and was relatively cheap.

Big LincolnFeb 8, 20178 votes

i hate that other classes basically came and fucked over juggernauts by being stupid with their items

item 3748 went from a jugg item to a secondary carry item for the likes of Shyvana, item 3071 was reworked AGAIN to be an item for all AD fighters, and item 3053 was nerfed because of marksmen when there were 0 juggernauts that were over the line when it was at its best, and now it's really only picked regularly on Illaoi out of that group

frustrating af

Variks the LoyalFeb 8, 201727 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hXIMF9v2,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-02-08T22:09:07.998+0000)

i hate that other classes basically came and fucked over juggernauts by being stupid with their items

went from a jugg item to a secondary carry item for the likes of Shyvana, was reworked AGAIN to be an item for all AD fighters, and was nerfed because of marksmen when there were 0 juggernauts that were over the line when it was at its best, and now it's really only picked regularly on Illaoi out of that group

frustrating af

To be fair, Shyvana is a Juggernaut.

And I don't mind sharing Cleaver and the rest with AD Fighters, particularly tanky ones like Renekton or Kled. It's when Marksman use them that we get issues.

EROTIC RAID BOSSFeb 8, 201714 votes

shyv is an on hit juggernaut that item was like made for her.

Variks the LoyalFeb 8, 20178 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hXIMF9v2,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2017-02-08T21:45:08.227+0000)

tbh I wish we had OG back, with some add-on like a 50% shield for range or something

it feels so lackluster now, especially as a core item

edit: it's an AD nerf, down to 40 AD and it's got a new build path.

http://www.surrenderat20.net/2017/02/28-pbe-update.html

Agreed.

I'd be fine if they buffed it back to it's original state, and made it melee only.

The main issue was Marksmans building it to get tanky, namely Graves.

WoonStruckFeb 8, 20179 votes

You mean namely every marksman?

AckelopeFeb 8, 20171 votes

I pretty much never saw marksmen building Sterak's aside from Graves. Not in my games and not on stat websites. That's not to say it didn't happen, I did it once or twice myself, but from what I gathered it didn't seem to be too egregious or game-breaking in most cases.

WoonStruckFeb 8, 201712 votes

As a defensive item it granted 15-25 (30-50) AD, 500 HP, and a 750HP shield.

Every pro game had it on every ADC.

Anywhere above plat ADCs were building it or Maw, sometimes both, and ignoring mages if there was a problematic one in the game.

RiotRiot AxesFeb 8, 201756 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hXIMF9v2,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-02-08T21:35:49.079+0000)

it's beautiful

I never thought we'd see it happen all at once

that cleaver buff is suspect as hell though; I'm going to assume they're lowering its AD or something and we haven't seen it yet

Was a datamining thing. The full changelist on Cleaver is: New build path: Phage + Kindlegem + 1000 gold (total cost 3050, down from 3100) Health: 400 (increased from 300) Attack Damage: 40 (decreased from 50)

Still discussing whether that AD number is correct or if we should take 5 more out of it in exchange for either a bit more health or a bit less combine cost.

Big LincolnFeb 8, 201726 votes

I actually think the changes are perfect; it strikes the exact medium between the original Juggernaut cleaver and the current one which is more of an everybody item

thank you for providing the whole list, too

Malicious MetalFeb 8, 201731 votes

Oh, on the topic of Juggernaut itemisation. Any plans on giving Steraks a bit of its original HP back?

bushy eyebrowsFeb 9, 201733 votes

http://i.memeful.com/memes/R8qoryd/First-World-Problem.jpg

kasfasFeb 9, 20176 votes

That did happen to me once. I was quite sad that I couldn't use the shield proc because they did their damage so slowly.

AirKingNeoFeb 8, 20178 votes

Take anymore AD off it and some champions (Darius) might not function well.

SeiferothFeb 9, 20176 votes

While this is a good point since he just got nerfed, The fact that this will hurt Riven/Jayce and the like more than him means he might more or less fall where he already is..

RebonackFeb 8, 201710 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Axes,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hXIMF9v2,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2017-02-08T22:05:35.864+0000)

Was a datamining thing. The full changelist on Cleaver is: New build path: Phage + Kindlegem + 1000 gold (total cost 3050, down from 3100) Health: 400 (increased from 300) Attack Damage: 40 (decreased from 50)

Still discussing whether that AD number is correct or if we should take 5 more out of it in exchange for either a bit more health or a bit less combine cost.

I vote for dropping it down to 30 AD and buffing the HP even more.

Make it downright stupid to buy both Cleaver and LDR.

5 Stacks GGFeb 8, 201738 votes

2nd option sounds neat!

Big LincolnFeb 8, 20171 votes

would u want 35 AD for 500 health?

KoggyStyleFeb 9, 201718 votes

as squishy as champs who buy cleaver ussually are yes its a godsend.

RexSaurFeb 9, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Axes,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hXIMF9v2,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2017-02-08T22:05:35.864+0000)

Was a datamining thing. The full changelist on Cleaver is: New build path: Phage + Kindlegem + 1000 gold (total cost 3050, down from 3100) Health: 400 (increased from 300) Attack Damage: 40 (decreased from 50)

Still discussing whether that AD number is correct or if we should take 5 more out of it in exchange for either a bit more health or a bit less combine cost.

Stop it, you're already killing top lane carries enough.

Is it too bad that champs like riven can build cleaver efficiently?

Why does riot pushes so hard for top to be a tank/juggernaut only lane?

RalanrFeb 9, 20179 votes

Because some of those champions can't actually function anywhere else?

Sire HippingtonFeb 10, 20172 votes

IF yiu take away anoher 5 ad, i'd vastly prefer higher hp over lower combine. Slot efficiency for lategame is already not that great for ad-casters and juggernauts overall if compared to mages and marksmen, so i'm not a fan of lowering that. More tankiness on the other hand sounds just about right.

RiotRiot AxesFeb 10, 20177 votes

At this point, not planning to take away any more AD. Any lower and bruisers/juggernauts start to get sad, which is a definite anti-goal. The cost is down to 3000, which makes the changes a definite gold efficiency increase.

I do expect that at this tuning point it'll still be purchased by lighter fighters like Riven (she bought it when it had these stats a couple seasons ago), probably some assassins, possibly a few marksmen. I'm fine with that; it's at least more clear what they're trading off to get access to this item, and there's a game health gain in not being able to convert 3 Long Swords into an anti-armor item in lane.