Smite shouldn't be an auto loss if forgotten.

Better Jungler··24 votes·3,057 views

I posted this to @riotsupport on twitter, and they said it was a good idea, and to bring it to boards (again)

If you forget smite, you're at an almost impossible disadvantage. Any jungler worth their weight in salt would counter jungle the shit out of you, on top of that, dragon and baron is gone. While those are gone, you're behind in levels cuz monsters are worth less experience, and they will literally beat you to death.

I have two solutions. Both easy enough to input into the game.

  1. Simplest solution:

when you lock in your champion, as the jungle role without smite in your summoner spells, a pop up window appears, stating


You do not have smite equipped.


  1. More difficult solution.

Make smite required for the jungle role. As previously stated, this summoner spell is an absolute requirement in its current condition for EVERY champion in the jungle. There is no exception for this. Jungle items are locked, experience is lessened, monsters kill you really quickily early game. The only complaint I could conjure up about this idea is in the scenario where jungle wanted to trade roles with someone. To accommodate for them, and the "Off meta "Trust me this is Op""" People, there should be a similar popup window to solution 1. for replacing smite while in the jungle role.

TLDR:

Make smite mandatory, making one mistake in champion select shouldn't cost you 20 minutes of your time, 4 reports from your teammates, and a automatic loss.

Other lanes dont have to deal with this, if you forget heal and go adc you could still do just fine. Top without tp could still work. Mid without ignite just as well. Jungle requires this summoner spell to be relevant.

52 Comments

The KnightOwl13 votes

How about you pay the hell attention when you are picking your champion/role and grab smite. If you forgot to bring smite, you deserve to lose.

Better Jungler11 votes

My question to people like you (toxic)

Why does it matter if theres a tool to help junglers out in the queue. You're the same person screaming "report xxxxxx he forgot smite now he's useless." Stop arguing just to argue.

ZephyrDrake2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Better Jungler,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hLUq7RFB,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-01-23T05:33:50.801+0000)

My question to people like you (toxic)

Why does it matter if theres a tool to help junglers out in the queue. You're the same person screaming "report xxxxxx he forgot smite now he's useless." Stop arguing just to argue.

and my answer to people like you (who are even more toxic)

is to PUT ATTENTION IN CHAMP SELECT!

Better Jungler1 votes

this fix would have literally ZERO effect on people that arent making the mistake. no one besides a jungler that has forgotten smite would see the pop up window.

so there is 100% no reason for this not to be a thing, it only helps people. It doesnt give an advantage to anyone, and keeps the coming game at a healthy polite level. (I.e not starting out flaming the jungler that forgot smite.)

Literally only helps people.

ZephyrDrake2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Better Jungler,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hLUq7RFB,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-30T00:42:18.353+0000)

this fix would have literally ZERO effect on people that arent making the mistake. no one besides a jungler that has forgotten smite would see the pop up window.

so there is 100% no reason for this not to be a thing, it only helps people. It doesnt give an advantage to anyone, and keeps the coming game at a healthy polite level. (I.e not starting out flaming the jungler that forgot smite.)

Literally only helps people.

PUT ATTENTION TO THE GAME! simple solution right there.

Woodakoodashooda25 votes

The player who forgot smite might deserve to lose....

But the 4 other players who repeated "Smite, Smite, Smite, Smite, Smite!" in lobby to try and remind the jungle to grab it do not deserve to lose because of that one player.

Better Jungler6 votes

agree

Longone1 votes

I garan damn tee you that you've done this before. Accidents happen. What if your wife came in and said you needed to give the heimlich to your child before you play the game and when you get back its just a few seconds left to choose. Come on man life happens.

Touch My Box6 votes

How is he toxic for telling you to pay attention?

Fuck off you precious little snowflake.

Though I do agree with your main post.

Better Jungler8 votes

Check his board profile history, dude goes to each post to troll.

"If you forgot to bring smite, you deserve to lose."

Also thats toxic:) just like

"Fuck off you precious little snowflake."

Touch My Box2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Better Jungler,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hLUq7RFB,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2017-01-23T05:52:55.645+0000)

Check his board profile history, dude goes to each post to troll.

"If you forgot to bring smite, you deserve to lose."

Also thats toxic:) just like

"Fuck off you precious little snowflake."

If you don't take smite, you DO deserve to lose. That's not toxic, that is fact. You sound like the kind of person who cried when Trump got in because he hurt someones feelings.

Better Jungler7 votes

What about the 4 other players on the team they deserve to lose too?:)

Touch My Box2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Better Jungler,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hLUq7RFB,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-23T06:03:37.306+0000)

What about the 4 other players on the team they deserve to lose too?:)

No, but that is the downside of randomized team mates.

You win some, you lose some.

Better Jungler6 votes

great solution. or a pop up window for junglers that forget smite. Bye:)

SmileInABox3 votes

What a fuckin tool you are. Don't even pretend to know american politics when you're just some garbage Aussie troll.

what you deserve3 votes

i don't understand why they decided to tie in jg experience to smite anyway

Better Jungler2 votes

me neither..I understand the ability and its usefulness, but why lock out jungle items if you dont have it?

I guess they dont want anymore smite ezreals?

Adriqnohee1 votes

Because when they didn't lock jungle items to smite, people abused the jungle items because of how cheap and good they were, for instance this ezreal's build, the first full item he built was a jungler item, that was the first form of his blue build. So riot decided to lock them to the already crucial smite, so that they could make good jungle items without having the other lanes abuse them.

9 X1 votes

Yet Righteous Glory on bruisers is totes fine.

Adriqnohee1 votes

Who else would buy it? And you need to be more specific here, do you mean divers, juggernauts, both? Just bruisers is not enough.

GundayMonday2 votes

I like the pop up. Your second solution fails if people try to trade roles with a jungler.

Better Jungler1 votes

The only complaint I could conjure up about this idea is in the scenario where jungle wanted to trade roles with someone. To accommodate for them, and the "Off meta "Trust me this is Op""" People, there should be a similar popup window to solution 1. for replacing smite while in the jungle role.

Quepha2 votes

jungler forgot smite the other day duo'd top won game (but Quepha, that doesn't happen every time! two games later you lost a game under the same circumstances) doesn't matter, the loss still isn't automatic.

tacofacefart2 votes

downvoted... league should be as unforgiving as possible.

Better Jungler1 votes

Believe it or not, thats one of the most compelling arguments posted on here.

at a competitive level, it should be unforgiving, no mercy, no training wheels. but level 1-30 and 30 norms should be a bit forgiving, since the whole purpose of those modes is to have fun, practice for ranked, and try new champs.

Rock MD2 votes

You should be paying attention in champion select. You have by far the role most suited to carrying in the early game as well as this meta. If you forget a crucial component that's on you.

You have anywhere from 5-10 minutes (assuming you're not playing blinds) to figure out your role, champion, runes, masteries, and summoner spells. That's plenty of time.

RISE Shlack1231 votes

When I've had or seen junglers forget smite, I've noticed the smart ones will just gank 24/7 and apply enough pressure to make up for the lack of smite. It still makes getting Dragon/Baron harder, but if your lanes are all winning pretty hard, getting these objectives can be simple even without smite. The main problem I see is when the opposing team (or my team if their jungler forgot smite) doesn't respect that a jungler that forget smite will just gank alot. Then they die over and over, tilt, and throw the game.

My main point is forgetting smite isn't an auto-loss if your jungler and your team come together to make up for it. And if your enemy jungler forgot smite, you'd better expect to get camped. So often teams just assume it's going to be a free win and they end up losing because their lane gets camped and they don't respect it.

Better Jungler1 votes

A jungler without smite will already be behind the entire enemy team in terms of level.. If they just gank the entire game, not only are they extremely likely to feed kills, they'd also have no time to farm and level up themselves.

You are, however, right about the last part. If your team supports you, and are able to hold their lanes off, as well as answering to the enemy invading your jungle to counterjungle you, then the game is extremely winnable. Late game builds dont require jungle items to be relevant. So a Khazix may not have a completed jungle item, but he could replace that with a defensive item, or even more damage and become a monster in the end game.

Though this problem wouldnt exist at all if a popup window warned people they didnt have smite. Also a popup window wouldnt even show up if the jungler had smite, so this solution of mine would LITERALLY ONLY help people.

Snowman Arc1 votes

Well, same can be said about most champions not having Flash. Or using wrong runes because lol. Or wrong masteries. There are a lot of things that can go wrong during champ select. Having Riot remind you of all can't be achieved. Just make sure you do a certain routine after you lock your champion; Runes, Masteries, Summoner Spells.

statelesskiller1 votes

well i mean . . . smite isnt EXACTLY auto loss, amumu can survive the jungle without it, and can walk away from most jungle ambushes without a care in the world, after that he still ganks well smite doesnt really affect that, and who cares if the enemy jungler has smite if he is fucking dead.

i have been in multiple games where a smiteless jungler won just because he played around his mistake, hell i remember a MASTER YI forgot smite and he still ended up solo yolo carrying because he outplayed the pleb that kept trying to invade him aka MURDERING HIM

Ïnsidious1 votes

The games are still winnable, check out my last game

http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=InsidiousWaffle

Adriqnohee1 votes

Yeah but a Bronze match doesn't say anything really, Bronze players are just too bad to take anything useful from their games.

Better Jungler1 votes

Harsh but true.

Better Jungler1 votes

While Im not trying to flame, that is a bronze game. Very different world from gold + (Not saying gold is high, just a noticeable difference)

No hate intended.

Ïnsidious1 votes

No hate taken, I only started playing in september sothe soft reset at season start kinda set me back. Everygame is a fiesta down here though, so if nothing else its entertaining

Better Jungler1 votes

Definitely, most fun I had in the game was when I started improving and climbed bronze 5 to silver. The feeling of having absolute control over my enemy when I started to learn the game was incredible lol.

It got to a point where I (As a jungle main) Could pinpoint the exact location of the enemy jungler, just because of how predictable they were in that elo.

Elisheva1 votes

It's only an auto loss if forgotten if your jungler is trash.

Better Jungler1 votes

before you say that and fully convince yourself, realize that this is putting multiple disadvantages on you, and your team. these include:

  1. slower clears
  2. less healthy clears.
  3. Much less experience per camp.
  4. less objective control.
  5. unfamiliar build paths.
  6. Less ganks 7 susceptible to counter jungling.
  7. 4 v 5 in many aspects until level 12-13.

You can say the simple "Pay attention, or Not an auto loss" excuse.. but if you put the previous disadvantages on a player they're going to struggle against players in the same skill level. We are placed with others (I play with low golds, high silvers, as im low gold) If I have to perform well to win a game when I HAVE smite, I would have to play EXCEPTIONALLY well without Smite, and really bank on the enemy making mistakes.

A Doorknob1 votes

They could easily do like Smite. Allow you to pick the summoner spells in game... Forgetting won't be a thing.

Aquafuge1 votes

If the jungler forgot smite then why didn't anyone else on the team notice, although i'm not in ranked yet i still look. As a newer player and i can think of it why wouldn't the players in ranked think of it. A jungler forgetting smite is a team wide mistake, not just the junglers ( although it is mostly theirs the rest of the team has some blame )

Better Jungler2 votes

So my scenario, was my queue dropped three times. I was jungle (like I am 98% of the time) and had all my stuff set up, like I normally do and got autofilled support. Not a problem, I switched to exhaust and my support runes/masteries. and queue dropped again. this happened 3 more times, on the final one, I was jungle instead of support, and had a conversation in the chat about team strategies, at the last second I noticed exhaust was still equipped, I changed it on my screen but it was too late, and I got locked with exhaust.

The real end of the line here is that forgetting smite is way too much of a punishment for something so easy and non-invasive to fix. A simple pop up window would not affect anyone negatively, and would only encourage positive behavior.

AdeBug1 votes

It's not, actually, gameS have been won without smite.

Better Jungler1 votes

They can, (I actually just won a game without smite.

but its a major disadvantage. and theres no argument that MORE games are lost when the junglers dont have smite, than won.

AdeBug1 votes

I won games without smite, lost games to people without smite, watched friends' games being won without smite. I actually cannot remember a smiteless game being lost. It's prolly lost cus every1 is tilted minute 1 and don't know how to adapt.

agbudar1 votes

dont forget that you cant buy jg items

Sirsir1 votes

Name checks out.

A more Big Brothery approach would be to replace the non-flash (or ghost if there is no flash) summoner spell when you are queued into jungle. But a popup window would be better...

Better Jungler1 votes

Necroing this post because now smite is auto-put in champ select.

Not saying it's all because of me,... but its all because of me.

Oleandervine1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Better Jungler,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hLUq7RFB,comment-id=0012,timestamp=2018-11-19T18:54:06.059+0000)

Necroing this post because now smite is auto-put in champ select.

Not saying it's all because of me,... but its all because of me.

You shouldn't really be necroing posts, especially 2 year old posts that don't really have relevance anymore. This change occurred because they implemented it during Nexus Blitz, and realized it can work in the main game - and this was on top of the constant stream of upset about how a lack of smite has ruined junglers for YEARS. You cannot take any credit for talking about an issue that's been around since the jungle position became a thing. It's like claiming umbrellas were invented because you complained about it raining.

Better Jungler1 votes

Whew you took this reallll serious:P

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