Curious if anyone has done the math already, or can link me to a post/reddit that did?
I owned a good number before the cap was removed, am already level 70, and still need 40 more champions. What level would a new player need to get to?
Jamaree5 votesRight now, it takes 547,050 BE to get every champion. One to 30, you get around 20 to 25 k, and every level, you average around 1 k BE, so a fresh account, assuming you get the 25 k BE, not factoring in discounts, or first win of the day, it will take you to level 553 to get all the champions, once again, this math is INCREDIBLY rough.
ChompyWulf2 votesYou never will, unless you sacrifice your firstborn to our overlord Rito or enter your credit card into the system.
They claimed this system would help new accounts, it was a lie.
Jamaree1 votesYou never will, unless you sacrifice your firstborn to our overlord Rito or enter your credit card into the system.
They claimed this system would help new accounts, it was a lie.
The system is faster at the start, actually, hell, as long as you are using discounts, the system stays faster.
ChompyWulf1 votesWhat discounts? RP discounts have been around for years. If you mean discounts on converting champ shards, sure that's going to save some. But I've already gotten triples of cheap champs or champs I already own, while there are dozens I don't own I haven't seen a shard for yet. The randomness of shards ruins any benefit of discounts and underscores a system that gives more reason to buy with cash.
Jamaree1 votesWell, between 35 to 50, you only lose out on around 400 to 800 IP that you would get from the old system, so unless you have the actual worst luck ever and never get a champion you don't own and only get the lowest possible amount of 820 every time, you will eventually get new champions to use for your discount.
ChompyWulf1 votesI just got a new Champ capsule today. Got a shard I haven't gotten yet finally. It was Aatrox. I already have Aatrox. I either have the worst luck or the system is set for cash grabs. Given the path Rito has walked with skins and the new currency and lockbox system, I'm going with the latter.
Jamaree1 votesI just got a new Champ capsule today. Got a shard I haven't gotten yet finally. It was Aatrox. I already have Aatrox. I either have the worst luck or the system is set for cash grabs. Given the path Rito has walked with skins and the new currency and lockbox system, I'm going with the latter.
So you got more then you would with the old system if you disenchant it, much greed.
In fact, let's work out the math. To get from level 52 to level 53, it takes 2688 exp.
Let's factor in getting the exp needed to level all in a single day meaning we would have to factor in another 50 BE. Let's assume you are Faker and you win every game and every game last 30 minutes exact, meaning that per win, you net 205 exp. So to level in a day factor in the extra 400 from first win of the day so 2688 - 605 = 2083 + 50 BE.
You will then play 11 more games to hit the leveling to disenchant an Aatrox shard for a grand total of 1310 BE.
Now let's compare it to the IP system using the same math. With the old system, assuming you win and it was 30 minutes, you would net a total of 87 IP + first win of the day for another 150, so 237 for the first win, 87 x 11 = 957 + 237 = 1194.
Hey look, you actually got more with the current system then you got with the old, but much greed though.
However, this obviously isn't every level up, so yes, that is a problem, but don't just whine and act like one system is better or worst without bringing up the math to support such.
ChompyWulf1 votesYour math assumes all wins within a day to level up. Under that assumption, the new system isn't favorable. However, that first assumes I have the time to play 11 games in a day. I do not have 5+ hours a day to spend playing this game, and even if I did I would not win every match. Facts are, I have gone several days only able to play a few games and winning none thanks to my own mistakes, our wonderfully toxic community, the twisted RNG in charge of ARAM, and the imbalance of the game. This means your equation already skews badly away from being favorable as the climb to level at times is a crawl and there is no consolation for best efforts. (Unless you want to talk about chests, but thanks to ward skins and emotes those are now less of a reward and more like a prank for getting an S) Because at times I have only been able to play a game or two a day, there have been times I have climbed a bit faster with getting first win bonuses. But then there is the issue I illustrated before of repeat shards of champs I already have, most often lower value ones such as Amumu, Singed, Nasus, and Fiddlesticks. That means I get garbage more often and leveling up is not rewarding in the least. Even having gotten higher value shards such as a Velkoz, I am left with a choice to disenchant since I own him, or keep the shard for building mastery and save a lot of BE to combine that with tokens. Meanwhile there are 59 champions I have yet to unlock, total value of 267,750 BE. Your model is most ideal, but it does not work out at all in a good manner because I'm going to have to level up about 200 times getting shards of equal value as Aatrox which I have not been receiving near as much as far less valuable ones. I'm more likely going to have to level up closer to 300 times and get further behind as more champs are made.
It's a money grab scheme that favors Riot.
Jamaree1 votesFacts are, I have gone several days only able to play a few games and winning none thanks to my own mistakes, our wonderfully toxic community, the twisted RNG in charge of ARAM, and the imbalance of the game. This means your equation already skews badly away from being favorable as the climb to level at times is a crawl and there is no consolation for best efforts.
I have gone on record multiple times saying that the amount gained between 35 to 50, 55 to 75, etc is outright worst, this system is worst for vets, however, it isn't so much worst that you can write it off and between those brackets, you only lose 400 to 800 IP you would have gotten. That is why the system is worst for vets, the chance of you getting the newest champion at release are abysmal meaning you are just flat getting less.
Because at times I have only been able to play a game or two a day, there have been times I have climbed a bit faster with getting first win bonuses. But then there is the issue I illustrated before of repeat shards of champs I already have, most often lower value ones such as Amumu, Singed, Nasus, and Fiddlesticks. That means I get garbage more often and leveling up is not rewarding in the least.
First off, the absolute minimum you can get in a chest post 30 is 820, yes, there are people who are incredibly unlucky and only get that, however, for a large amount of the community, the amount you get per level on average is 1000 to 1100 because for every 820 chest you get, you are just as likely to get a 1260.
Even having gotten higher value shards such as a Velkoz, I am left with a choice to disenchant since I own him, or keep the shard for building mastery and save a lot of BE to combine that with tokens.
As opposed to picking between getting a champion or getting runes and rune pages right?
Your model is most ideal, but it does not work out at all in a good manner because I'm going to have to level up about 200 times getting shards of equal value as Aatrox which I have not been receiving near as much as far less valuable ones. I'm more likely going to have to level up closer to 300 times and get further behind as more champs are made.
It's a money grab scheme that favors Riot.
You act like the old system was any faster, newsflash it wasn't, the old system was just as much of a grind and cash grab as this one. Welcome to the free to play market.
ChompyWulf1 votesOld runes pages were not as necessary as people make them out to be. If you REALLY wanted to optimize for a very specific champ, OK, sure. Generally, one AP, one AD, and one tank page covered 99% of champs.
Second, you're not really saying anything other than "oh you're going to get X amount more than Y unless you're really unlucky" and have forgotten even arguing how time and win intensive that has to be to level when before even with losses you were getting more.
It's a worse system and Rito is more greedy than ever before, don't try to say otherwise.
Jamaree1 votesOld runes pages were not as necessary as people make them out to be. If you REALLY wanted to optimize for a very specific champ, OK, sure. Generally, one AP, one AD, and one tank page covered 99% of champs.
By that logic, not nessecary to have every champion then since you can optimize and grow fully accustomed and skilled with one champion.
Second, you're not really saying anything other than "oh you're going to get X amount more than Y unless you're really unlucky" and have forgotten even arguing how time and win intensive that has to be to level when before even with losses you were getting more.
And you aren't bringing up any of the math necessary to support the system being worst and are just outright saying it is worst when the math very clearly states otherwise.
It's a worse system and Rito is more greedy than ever before, don't try to say otherwise.
Yes, it is worst IF you already have a lot of champions AND you play bots, in every other situation, as long as you are using it right, it is better.
ChompyWulf1 votesYour comparison of rune pages and champions is totally off base and a strawman. Runes would give stat bonuses, either stronger early game stats or some late scaling stronger stats. Having as many champion options as possible is pretty damn important if you want to play at all seriously so you can keep up with what champs are in a stronger state and not only have a couple options (which could be banned and picked first) and a lot of weaker champs that are not ideal. Furthermore, variety of champion kits lend variations of actual gameplay that runes would only obtusely impact.
I did bring up math, you totally ignored it. Hell, even your own post below suggests it would roughly take over 500 levels to unlock all champs. You won't even concede that losses now are a much bigger impact on overall BE gains when before even if you lose a game but were a beast you'd get a pretty good chunk of IP. Now, you get a consolation prize of XP and have to grind even more just to get a new level and HOPE you don't get skunked by a crummy capsule.
You are a boot licking sycophant with how you refuse to admit new system is worse than old.
Jamaree2 votesYour comparison of rune pages and champions is totally off base and a strawman. Runes would give stat bonuses, either stronger early game stats or some late scaling stronger stats. Having as many champion options as possible is pretty damn important if you want to play at all seriously so you can keep up with what champs are in a stronger state and not only have a couple options (which could be banned and picked first) and a lot of weaker champs that are not ideal. Furthermore, variety of champion kits lend variations of actual gameplay that runes would only obtusely impact.
If this were true, why was there at all times such a big push between runes and rune pages or champions, if only one or the other was needed, why was it nearly a constant daily berating of how slow the system is because you were forced to buy one or the other.
Most players don't play more then 5 to 20 champions and just about everyone outright tells you playing more is a horrible idea, because it is, you need to focus on a core to improve far more then having a massive variety of champions. You will go and climb far faster and higher one tricking then you being all of them slightly ok.
Why do you make an argument for saying you only need runes for a specific champion then say that you needed access to all champions, I personally think in a ranked scene all champions should be opened as we saw in clash mode, but you can't have your cake and eat it too, the argument either goes all one way or all the other, not just in the way that suits your needs.
I did bring up math, you totally ignored it.
What math, you have brought up no math, you have just said the old system was better without bringing up a single number to support it. All you have said when it comes to math at all is that. Hell, you haven't even shown any proof of only getting the bare minimum of chest and we only can rely on word say, that you once again, refuse to showcase.
Hell, even your own post below suggests it would roughly take over 500 levels to unlock all champs.
And how long do you think it took to get every champion with IP, because I can guarantee it wasn't any faster with the old system.
You won't even concede that losses now are a much bigger impact on overall BE gains when before even if you lose a game but were a beast you'd get a pretty good chunk of IP. Now, you get a consolation prize of XP and have to grind even more just to get a new level and HOPE you don't get skunked by a crummy capsule.
Except no...you didn't. In fact, let's work it out. Let's assume you play 2 games a day, one win, one loss, each game 30 minutes, and going from say level 52 to 53. Obviously, not every level up will net you a 1260 and that is once again a problem with the system, that is one of the flaws of the system, in that case yes, this system is once again, outright worst which I have stated multiple times.
The amounts you can get from a normal champion chest are 820, 900, 960,and 1260.
With IP, factoring in first win of the day, two games, 1 win 1 loss, both 30 minutes, you would net 237 for the win and 58 for the loss for 295 IP per day.
With BE, factoring in first win of the day, two games, 1 win 1 loss, both 30 minutes, you would net 605 exp for the win, and 167 for the loss and 50 BE, netting you 772 exp with 50 BE.
With you needing 2688 exp to level at that level, it would take 4 days to level.
So, after 4 days with IP, you would have a total of 1180 IP and with the BE system, you would get a minimum of 1020, 1100, 1160, 1460.
So yeah, you do get less, over a long period of time, you will flat get raw less BE then you would IP, and I have said this, time and time and time again, HOWEVER, the moment you use a discount, period, the deficit crumbles away from the raw amount you are saving. Which is why this system is worst for vets, which I have once again said over and over.
You are a boot licking sycophant with how you refuse to admit new system is worse than old.
Except I have stated multiple times that it is worst in some cases, and it others, it is miles better, hell, literally in the case you gave me with you getting Aatrox, this system is outright better.
Zed genius1 votesThat's not easy to calculate considering the RNG elements on how much Essence worth you get, on if you unlock champions from their shards or not, from what you get from hextech chest opening when u get a chest and 3 key fragments
e46 Fanatic1 votesI can only imagine at least level 250. I still have 6 champs left to purchase and I'm going on 3500+ hours played, but a lot of those hours were spent into the old rune system(i even got 95k BE refund when new runes came around) so surely I'd own all the champs by now if runes were always free.
From level 30 to 99 it feels like I've only purchase a few champs
Dope Solo1 votesDo you know where you can look to see total hours played?
e46 Fanatic2 votesDo you know where you can look to see total hours played?
https://wol.gg/ a couple patches ago made things not so accurate though, ever since some 'API' change not all matches are counted
Dope Solo1 votes61 days, thanks for sharing.
ForFoxSakes1 votes35 days. seems tiny compared to the years I played on WoW
ScreamingLeaf1 votesShortly after I reached level 30, the level system came out. Right now I am at Level 335. I hoarded shards till around level 325 before buying champions with shards, then disenchanting the leftovers. right now I have 10 Champions left to get. All 4900 BE champions. So if I get lucky with an average of 1k BE per level, I might be able to get everything by Level 385... T-T Good Luck
